<p>Garggaurav, the answer to your question depends on your career goals. If your goal is to work as an engineer, you will have an edge over most elite private schools except for MIT, Stanford, Caltech. However, if you plan to get in to business world (consulting, management, etc), your are better off going to elite private schools. What specific schools are you considering for yourself?</p>
<p>Generally, HYP + MIT has an undeniable prestige that you can’t really beat because it’s ingrained in our culture. Movies and media use “Harvard” or “MIT” as the hallmark for genius and sophisticated education. Berkeley has somewhat more of a practical prestige. While most people don’t consider it a Harvard-caliber school, it holds its correct prestige for employers. It seems like most of the country respects Berkeley a good amount, but here in Silicon Valley, a Berkeley EECS degree is your key to the city. It trumps Stanford, Caltech, and most definitely the rest of the Ivy League (who can’t really compete with Berkeley in engineering, anyway).</p>
<p>So as of now, this is my conclusion from the discussion:
As an incoming Berkeley EECS major, I am ready to take crap from MIT and Stanford. Caltech - We can probably talk. But the rest - don’t even try.</p>
<p>(okay, I don’t always talk like that, but you get the point.)</p>
<p>Please understand a simple fact: PRIVATE universities have the added cache of the moneyed class. Selective PRIVATE schools (universities or LACs) combine the “we are of the moneyed class” with “and we made the cut.”
So if you are looking for glamour rather than substance, however good (actually, UC Berkeley is <em>great</em>) a school is in substance, you are not one of the “beautiful People” at a public university.
Berkeley is a fantastic university and a real opportunity for in-staters and our more reasonable tuition. Berkeley can not be HYP etc. when it comes to the oh-wow-bragging-rights.</p>
<p>^You made a point. BUT when it comes to engineering, especially ‘electrical engineering’, your argument "Berkeley can not be HYP etc. when it comes to the oh-wow-bragging-rights. " fails miserably. </p>
<p>Berkeley EECS/engineering>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HYP and all other IVYs
“We are not of the moneyed class, but we are at the top of the world.”</p>
<p>^^^<em>In substance</em>, absolutely. And real engineers/chemists/mathematicians know this. But OP is asking if one says, say, at a party in the U.S.A., “I got into Harvard” vs. “I got into UC Berkeley,” does it have the same bragging rights.
Na-ah. It isn’t fair and it isn’t RIGHT but it so <em>is</em>…</p>
<p>Far too many people mistake perceived prestige by laymen with perceived prestige by recruiters. </p>
<p>There is objective data for the former. </p>
<p>[Harvard</a> Number One University in Eyes of Public](<a href=“Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public”>Harvard Number One University in Eyes of Public)</p>
<p>Berkeley ranks number 5, above most of the Ivies. </p>
<p>On the other hand, headhunters and recruiters know all the little schools in every corner of the world. Their perception of prestige follows the rankings. They know that Berkeley engineering is #3, and that regular undergrad majors generally rank 3-20. </p>
<p>I’ve been to France, Singapore, and Japan where my acquaintances were wowed by my degree.</p>
<p>I think there are two ways of looking at this. One way is by assessing the general public and employers about how they view Cal – aka, asking outsiders. Another way is by asking Cal students themselves where they would rather be if they had a choice. I suspect engineering students would stick with Cal or Stanford/MIT/Caltech. But what about everyone else? </p>
<p>So, current Cal students: if you had to start over college, would you choose Cal or elsewhere (assuming you had a choice)?</p>
<p>@205mom,
“I got into Harvard EECS” vs. “I got into UC Berkeley EECS,” does it have the same bragging rights. Absolutely NOT! Most people will LMAO at Harvard EECS. The OP is aiming for Berkeley EECS.
@The Banker,
I would choose Berkeley EECS over any other top academic institutions if I had a choice again. Berkeley has shaped me into the wonderful person I will be for the rest of my life.</p>
<p>‘Accepting all international students’ not true… My son goes to a very competitive high school, 30 students applied, only 7 got in. All over diff majors. It’s still very selective as they have no dearth of applications.</p>
<p>@lloydshapley: Well, I wouldn’t totally agree with all that, but I would say that what you wrote is pretty accurate. Especially the part about being “just a number”. Didn’t Cal accept upwards of 10,000 students last year? I think many posters are afraid to say what you just said. </p>
<p>Look – if you’re a Cal student, you probably know other students who wanted to go to a different (private) school but came to Cal instead because of money/scholarship. From my high school, we sent 50+ students to Cal, many who absolutely did not want to go but had to because in-state tuition meant Cal was 50% cheaper. Of course, they all found their niche eventually, so good for them. Cal is great for graduate school, and rankings that place them so high up reflect the entire university, graduate school included. These are the same rankings that administration boasts of. Undergraduate and graduate rankings are completely different. </p>
<p>So from an “insider” perspective (as someone who has gone through the admissions process), Cal’s reputation may not be as sterling as it is to outsiders. But from an outsider’s perspective, it really depends – if you subscribe to the belief that private is better than public, then Cal automatically takes a huge backseat to about ten other universities. But this is in terms of prestige alone. This doesn’t take into account finances or personal preferences that make Cal the best choice for a student.</p>
<p>’’…accepting almost all international students who apply because they are full pay.’’</p>
<p>This is certainly not true. From my high school, 24 people applied to Berkeley and only 5 got in. So saying that it accepts almost all international students is severely misleading.</p>
<p>[Best</a> Undergraduate Teaching | Rankings | Top National Universities | US News](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/undergraduate-teaching)</p>
<p>@ thebanker - UC Berkeley is ranked 8 for undergraduate teaching. So it can’t be that bad. It’s at par with uchicago.</p>
<p>lloydshapley - You make some really interesting points here.</p>
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<p>Whether Cal is below them or above them is a topic of debate. This itself means that Cal is in the same league as these schools. These schools are basically the 2-tier schools and while you may pick one over the other, it will be foolish to do so with your eyes closed. (Unless you are already determined to not go to a public school). </p>
<p>And as for Berkeley only known for its Grad school - that also cannot be true because US news and Rankings ranks undergrad and Grad programs separately. Berkeley is ranked #3 for Undergrad engineering and #3 for Undergrad business. </p>
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<p>As an international student myself, “almost all” is an overstatement but I do believe that they have increased their international acceptance. But I don’t think that reflects on the quality of students, just the source of these students. Anyways, Berkeley received a record number of applicants this year and its overall acceptance rate should actually be lower. </p>
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<p>I totally agree with you. I come from a school of 500 students where I personally knew my headmaster, nearly every teacher and atleast 3/4th of the students. Thus, I will be totally knew to being “just a number” and basically anonymous. Frankly, that’s the only thing I am not looking forward to. But I have heard that the classes get significantly smaller in Junior and Senior years. Also US news has ranked Berkeley teaching #8 in the nation (again, Undergrad Rankings). I guess I will be fine.</p>
<p>By the discussion till now, I think we can safely conclude that a Berkeley undergrad EECS degree is one of the best in the world and holds high regard in the eyes of Employers, Academics and professionals everywhere.</p>
<p>What still remains debatable is Berkeley’s standing in the eyes of an average layman.</p>
<p>As an entering graduate student who has degrees from ivys, I bring a bit of a different perspective. Among my peers, Berkeley was always considered an Ivy equivalent on the west coast with Stanford. I guess if you’d press me is say Stanford is a generally better school, but that really depends on the department and the program. And any look at peer rankings and reputational rankings say the same thing. So, yes, it’s an impressive school and people see it that way. It’s not HYP, but its up there. </p>
<p>The issue that Berkeley faces here in the US is the US News Rankings, which are the most popular and put the school in the low 20s. This is because those rankings take into account things like endowment, which traditionally haven’t been an issue with state schools (though they are beginning to become one as budgets are cut). I think US News doesn’t quite understand the difference between state schools, which are supposed to serve the needs of a state’s population, and their private counterparts. If Berkeley were run like a private institution, and began recruiting less from CA and more from the other 49 and internationally, there is no doubt that the metrics that US News uses to rank schools would improve… But that’s not Berkeley’s mission. They are also charged with providing some level of upward mobility for CA residents through education. I think Berkeley easily falls within the top 10 schools in the US (the vast majority of their graduate programs are ranked in the top 10) and maybe just outside of HYP. </p>
<p>I think US New does a real disservice to the “public ivies”, which can go head to head with the top 10 any day. They should reconsider their metrics, which heavily favor the private schools.</p>
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<p>You’d have to choose carefully. Cornell has 700 student lectures as well. Also, Duke’s schedule list some courses which have 100-200 student lectures – there is probably not a lot of practical difference in student / instructor interaction past 100 or so (some claim that even as low as 40 is too large for the class to be anything other than a “big lecture”). Duke breaks up lower division math into 25 student lecture sections, but these are led by graduate students, not faculty.</p>
<p>I’m from Ohio, and Berkeley doesn’t have much weight or name recognition here as far as I know, but that’s probably because California is the other side of the country and we have good public schools nearby (University of Michigan, OSU, and the University of Virginia to name a few)</p>
<p>People at my school know about the Ivies, UChicago, and MIT, that’s probably about it as far as top schools go.</p>
<p>Schools more comparable to Berkeley (Northwestern and Duke) are also much better known, but again, its a geography thing.</p>
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<p>The only thing I might add is that economics is interchangeable with business, considering than most top schools don’t have a business program. </p>
<p>We can talk about this all day, but really, do any Cal students feel the same way about the arguments being made here? Not about EECS or the undergraduate biz program, but about the Cal undergraduate program as a whole. I suspect the undergraduate program is, in some ways, “piggybacking” off the reputation of the graduate programs. Do any graduate students feel the same way? </p>
<p>FWIW I have many friends at Cal who do not think their school is anywhere as good as people here are making it sound. So I am a bit skeptical.</p>
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This statement really exemplifies what I’d say about this: it depends on who you talk to. “Most people” would have no idea what EECS stands for, but they’ve heard of Harvard. Harvard is super-famous all over the US and among all groups of people–it’s a cliche. So it matters whether you’re talking about people in your field, or people in general, or people on the West Coast, etc., etc.</p>
<p>My impression, as an East Coast person, is that most reasonably well educated people would say that Berkeley is one of the three best public universities in the US, along with UVa and Michigan, but that the top 5 to 10 private schools still have more general prestige. This may be different on the West Coast, where there is more of a Berkeley vs. Stanford thing going on. On the East Coast, it’s more like, “Oh, yeah, also Stanford” when you ask about top schools.</p>
<p>It wouldn’t be for California residents…Its their state school…something that you end up with if you were above average at high school and you missed Stanford. As an international here…Its got some repute…though not that much…but thats just cause people compare repute to the acceptance rates( thats actually logical :p)</p>