Does an undergraduate Ivy league offer more other schools?

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<p>I think there is a tremendous amount of naivete on CC about the existence of people who do very, very well financially in precisely these kinds of situations - lawyer married to a doctor, etc. - with “mere” state u degrees. It’s really amusing, because I think it comes across as having fallen off the turnip truck in not understanding that really, the lawyer in a well-managed practice under the radar screen can do as well financially as (if not better than) the lawyer in a name brand, white-shoe firm. I think they also don’t always understand that it’s precisely the lawyer-married-to-a-doctor-both-from-state-u situations that are the ones sending their kids full pay to wherever the heck they like.</p>

<p>Many of us on this forum are interested in colleges and education. I tend to ask people where they went to school just because I am interested. I don’t care if the answer is Western Louisiana Tech or MIT. It gives me something to talk about with them and I often learn something I didn’t know before. Other people don’t care that much about colleges per se and would rather find out what professional football team someone likes best. It’s just conversation.</p>

<p>In my business experience, much of which has been at industry-leading corporations, your educational pedigree mattered just a little. It might be mentioned occasionally, but it wasn’t that much more important than where you previously worked or what you were doing in your job. To my former CEO, highly respected in corporate America and a proud LSU grad, the “name” of your school didn’t matter all that much. He has been asked to teach a seminar at Vanderbilt, and he jokes that they didn’t let him in years ago when he applied (as a baseball recruit, no less).</p>

<p>Some of the benefits of an Ivy education can also be had at a good private college. In my opinion, many of the downsides of big state U are related to size, inefficient bureaucracies, unions, and nepotism. I know a family where every member works for our local state school. They have gotten jobs they didn’t deserve and for which, by their own admission, they were underqualified. It’s all connections. I could be wrong, but I can’t see that happening too much at HYP where they are fighting to preserve a long reputation of excellence. Too many people would notice!</p>

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<p>My southern cousins will never willingly send their kids out of state to college. It really has nothing to do with what it costs. They support their state school and they don’t want to take a chance on yankee grandchildren. I am only partly kidding. Kids have done out of state residencies but usually come back home as soon as they can.</p>

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<p>True story: When Lawrence Summers was fighting for his job has president of Harvard, he went to each department to try to mend fences with the faculty. At the sociology department the discussion turned to research, whereupon he made the comment, “You are at Harvard, why would you bother reading anything that came out of Louisiana State University?” Perhaps those people you are talking about are simply reacting to attitudes like ex-President Summers.</p>

<p>“That data is false. Last year, according to the AMA there were 229 applicants to medical school with Yale undergraduate degrees or approximately17.5% of a typical graduating class. After law school, medical school it is the second most popular destination for Yale grads. If there had been a 65% reduction that would have meant that 50% of all Yale grads applied to med school in 1980 which is nonsense. The numbers never exceeded 20%”</p>

<p>The data came from Yale itself (I’ll see if it is still on their website - it was a study of where alumni ended up), and was dated 2005, I believe. I would note that your data only gives the number of applicants, not the number of attendees.</p>

<p>Ah - here’s the data, but I still need to run down the study:</p>

<p>“in 1975, 17% of Yalies went to medical school directly upon graduation. In 2002 (when medical school admissions were easier) it was 6%.”</p>

<p>(and, admittedly, they were talking about 2002.)</p>

<p>“in 1975, 17% of Yalies went to medical school directly upon graduation. In 2002 (when medical school admissions were easier) it was 6%.”</p>

<p>That really doesn’t prove anything unless you know what % of Yale students WANTED to go / applied to medical school in each of these years.</p>

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<p>You forgot the part “directly upon graduation” in your quote.</p>

<p>Today, just as many (17.5%) go on to medical school (2010) according to the official data from AMA as in 1975. Only a small amount (around a third) go directly on graduation as your data indicates. The vast majority enroll 2,3 or 4 years later. At Harvard Medical School, 72% of enrolled students waited at least a year before matriculating and 52% at least 2 years. At Berkeley, six times as many college grads enrolled some time after graduation than upon graduation. The average age of medical school matriculants is currently 25 years old (and rising). </p>

<p>So the number of applicants and matriculants to med school from top colleges has not been substantially reduced just spread over a number of years.</p>

<p>Do MD-PhDs do the PhD first?</p>

<p>^I think the typical chronology for MD-PhDs is to take 2 years of medical school (the classwork,) then 3 years of research for the PhD, and then finish the remaining 2 years of medical school.</p>

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<p>It depends. </p>

<p>Some do the PhD first and then the MD. Under the Medical Scientist Training Program (MSTP) which is very selective and sponsored by the NIH you do the program as collegealum outlined: 2 years med school, then PhD then finish med school. The big benefit of the MSTP program is that the entire program is paid for by the NIH including the 4 years of medical school which can save upwards of $300K. Considering that you have to spend another 5-6 years for the PhD, it is not obvious the program is economical if you are ultimately interested in practicing as a physician as opposed to doing research. Together with residency you are in your mid-thirties before you are done.</p>

<p>We know PhDs who worked awhile and then got an MD. Their companies paid for the MD. Of course, that was the good old days when there was more money around.</p>