Does anyone else feel like majority of transfer students here are grossly subpar??

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
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<p>No sakky, I don’t think we disagree, in fact I think we agree heartily on all you’ve written here. I have long been a proponent of these easy exams with harsh curves being eradicated, and of everything following something closer to the upper division model, where difficulty is more guided by the material. </p>

<p>What I was responding to was the mania that transfers may do OK as they don’t have to “survive the lower division.” I think that is silly generalization, as depending on the major one is talking about (I can think of all the way from things in the humanities to my own major), the lower division may be vastly easier. In fact, I don’t think the math department really regulates how professors treat their students in the higher level stuff. </p>

<p>Depending on the major, it may be true that the lower divisions are responsible for deflating the grades, but there is something amiss if one generalizes this too far.</p>

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<p>I certainly think we should eliminate BS classes that are hard for no reason other than to be hard to do well in.</p>

<p>Which classes are you talking of? I wouldn’t qualify classes like EE 20 as weeders in the sense you’re talking of – I found people I knew who took EE 120, the next course, did worse, even if they had a high A in EE 20 for instance.</p>

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<p>thanks emil! :] i’ve also never heard of anyone doing it in a year, which was the main reason i never thought i would get accepted haha</p>

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<p>Who made this thread is SoO “what should I say?” haha “noob?”</p>

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<p>I love you emilsinclair9, you are a perfect representation of what Transfer Students have to offer and how mature and intelligent we can be.</p>

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<p>@emil I don’t think I could have said it any better myself. </p>

<p>The elitists will have a hard time arguing such a well thought response. Though I think your talents are wasted on this trollish thread :)</p>

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<p>@ jane: Thank you! :slight_smile: haha as are you! </p>

<p>@ flwrgrl: Thank you! Yes, I completely agree!! I aspire to avoid the ■■■■■ threads from now on haha. Although, it was the reactions of some of the current students that perturbed me. Thank you for the support!</p>

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<p>Emile, I don’t think the OP comments were afflictive, or troublesome at all. It’s simply an opinion, as evident in the word “feel” within the title, rather than the word know, or certainty, or understanding. You see, right off the bat, the OP is less than certain, its in the title itself. I would have gone for the throat of that uncertainty, that lack of confidence in oneself, and ones argument. I do agree with you for the most part, but be careful when saying “justifying the worth of transfers through this issue is as illogical…[etc]” because, in short, one might argue that your own justifications on behalf of transfer students, are not exceptions to the same rule/principle you laid down here, presuming ethics is where he/she wishes to advance the argument as you proposed. I say this because the the theme of the argument, to me, is whether or not people should be allowed to believe certain things about other people, is this not true? Either way, in order to remove the innate bias that goes with any argument of experience, one must avoid violating ones own framework. Sorry if I’m misunderstanding who the argument is with, I assumed the OP.</p>

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<p>Semantics?</p>

<p>The OP stated “feel. . .are” not “feel. . .might/could be” so in my opinion the OP was making a statement based on his or her observations and making the conclusion that other 4 years are/were in agreement.</p>

<p>And “grossly” implies an excessive amount or large degree of inferiority.</p>

<p>Explicity stating “here” means this cc forum. The OP didn’t state current transfers at Berkeley, so one could assume he or she was making a personal attack toward transfer students, specifically UCB transfers, on this forum.</p>

<p>If the OP had made a thread entitled “Does anyone feel that the majority of transfer students here might be subpar?” then there would be a question of his or her lack of confidence in the matter. </p>

<p>But no, the OP made his or her opinion reguarding UCB transfer students quite strong and clear.</p>

<p>And I hit myself for commenting on this trollish thread. I’m out. :)</p>

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<p><em>claps for emil</em></p>

<p>btw, I’m surprised such prestigious Cal students haven’t bothered to look up any research supporting their claims that the high-achieving students are “brought down” by the lower-achieving students. There is virtually no evidence to support that claim, nor any evidence to support that Cal’s overall prestige is lowered by admitting supposed “lower-achieving” transfers. </p>

<p>Or that transfers are “lower-achieving” to begin with.</p>

<p>Or what lower-achieving even means (maybe that f-up in class will go on the win the Pulitzer prize, become a state governor, head Apple when Steve Jobs dies).</p>

<p>Again, I’m surprised prestigious Cal students haven’t bothered to question their belief that what they’ve earned in life is a reflection on them, and not their race or class standings. You would think prestigious (and mostly liberal) Cal students would realize their admittance to Cal is more a result of our society’s intricate structure of privilege/oppression. So, high-achievement is less (much less) a reflection on the individual’s innate ability than their society’s expectations of them.</p>

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<p>In a rather tragic display of irony, most of the posters in this thread with terrible grammar are the self proclaimed prestigious scholars that were accepted to Berkeley as freshmen.</p>

<p>But what’s equally ironic, is that most of them failed entirely to understand the purpose of Berkeley as an academic institution, or even any other University of California.</p>

<p>The primary purpose for rankings of any public or private university is based on the quality of graduate education. That’s why, while your lecture is given by a professor, your discussion, exams, homework and laboratories are primarily graded by a teacher’s aid. </p>

<p>The truth of the matter is, the college itself feels the same way about all of the unique snowflakes who got accepted as freshmen, as it does about transfer students. “They’re just passing by.” </p>

<p>As for your equally misinformed and inaccurate view that transfer students “bypass” weeder courses. You couldn’t be more grossly wrong in that assumption.</p>

<p>Berkeley’s transfer criteria is one of the most steep and demanding of any of the UC’s. Part of that, is a staggering high GPA cutoff (Above a 3.8) along with a significant amount of prerequisites being complete. </p>

<p>If anything, your self proclaimed weeder classes are increasingly more difficult for a Community College student as a result of:

  1. Not being offered on as wide of a basis. No flexible schedule.
  2. The necessary A, whereas Berkeley students can settle for less.
  3. A lot less resources on campus than what a Berkeley student has access. Programs like Oasis and power study sessions, plus having access to a lot more academically motivated students to study with. </p>

<p>What makes a Community College better performing than you at upper division, has nothing to do with them “bypassing” the weeder classes, but rather:

  1. More one on one communication with professors at the Community College level.
  2. The “necessary” A has a byproduct of better performance in the material.
  3. “One Man Army” - A strong sense of self discipline that a student who desires to get an A has to learn, because most of the coeds in his or her class don’t share the same goal. You’re surrounded by students at Berkeley every day and in every class, who at some point in their life had to work hard and pursue good grades. Whereas in community college, there’s a lot of sand in that rough. </p>

<p>If anything, a transfer student has a much more difficult rite of passage to get into Berkeley than you did as a freshmen. Why? Because you had this rigorous study schedule and academic discipline that carried you through high school. The supposed backbone of your post secondary performance now. Whereas, a transfer student may have taken time off, spent time in Iraq doing service and taken a significant amount of time away from study which weakens the mind. </p>

<p>This harder rite of passage fortifies these students to carry with them a higher standard of performance. That’s why Berkeley let them in, and why they’re graduating with better GPA’s than you.</p>

<p>For example, the San Diego Community College District transfer students to UCSD, from UCSD’s own faculty’s mouth, perform better in Organic and Analytic Chemistry than freshmen admits in Chemistry, because they have a better foundation of General Chemistry. </p>

<p>To put it bluntly, if you’re as smart as you say you are, shouldn’t you have gotten straight A’s in all the “lower division weeder classes”? Maybe the real reason you’re upset, is because you’re not as smart as you thought you were. </p>

<p>Maybe, you only got in because you exposed the broken system for admissions into UCB as freshmen (top 5%, standardized tests, inflated GPA). However, once you got into Berkeley, you no longer had that convenient standardized system to support your success. No longer was it as simple as doing this much homework, making sure your classmates didn’t do as well as you, cramming the SAT Prep and shooting for gold. Now the real person exposed for being an undeserving student is you.</p>

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<p>^…uhhm NO! That “necessary” A in CC is damn easy and everybody knows it. Berkeley freshman have taken several CC classes and we all know that they are easy as hell. Sure some may rival Cal, but that is like .0005% of CC classes offered. You make it seem like people go to CC because they were forced into it. I know many CC transfers and many agree that they would not be able to get in as freshman. Many don’t even have HS degrees. I dare you to go up to people on UCB campus and say “hey Cal’s classes are such a piece of cake compared to CC.” You will get a mix of laughter and confusion. Transfers are NOT grossly subpar, but to say Cal lower divs are subpar to CC is making me LOL!!!</p>

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<p>Using six exclamation marks was in what chapter of rhetorical analysis? </p>

<p>I’d like to know what section of statistics taught you that it was okay to make up a random percentage and pass it as fact. Can you link me your source for .0005% of CC classes rivaling Cal?</p>

<p>Shouldn’t be a lot of work for you, since you’re such an academically superior person to me.</p>

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<p>Stop deliberately misunderstanding.</p>

<p>The argument is that, on average, students admitted from community colleges are inferior academically.</p>

<p>That does not mean that all community college admits are worse than the Berkeley average.</p>

<p>That does not mean that all freshman admits are better than all community college admits.</p>

<p>That does not mean that you are an idiot because you happen to be a community college admit.</p>

<p>If you can’t understand those things, it is not worth the time it would take to read through and analyze your argument.</p>

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<p>I’m not superior, but my classes are and the proof is in the pudding. If CC classes are as demanding as you make them seem than you will have recruiters flocking at your feet for your CC degree and thus have no need for Berkeley. Uhh no, your employer is not gonna pay you because you took CC classes, he is gonna pay because you took Berkeley classes.</p>

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<p>Community college classes are easier than Berkeley classes.</p>

<p>However, everyone in here who thinks they’re so much better than community college transfers is a ******. </p>

<p>The end. This thread should probably die now.</p>

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<p>Lord almighty, heavens, hell, and everything in between…</p>

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<p>I second what mathboy said. haha.</p>

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<p>“so in my opinion the OP was making a statement based on his or her observations and making the conclusion that other 4 years are/were in agreement.”</p>

<p>I read it as a question of feeling, not a conclusion or any type of agreement with anyone. Isn’t that why the title ends with a question mark? </p>

<p>And whether he feels that something is so, or he feels that it might or could be so, he still FEELS it, rather than knows it, or has seen it/experienced it enough to conclude. Therefore it is subject to be impugnable, meaning it is a free opinion, not a statement of truth. I’m not defending him, I’m defending his right to speak. Just as I would defend anyone’s right in the same way. And If I’d been in the debate with him, it would have been over the second it started because I wouldn’t have held back on him. I wouldn’t have let him off the hook by generalizing my own personal experiences.</p>

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<p>After reading this thread, I am under the impression that UCB’s lower division English classes are grossly subpar.</p>