<p>rmldad–WOW–time to leave some financial aid information at Grandma’s house by mistake :D. WOW!!! </p>
<p>It really stinks when grandparents play favorites. We have that happen here, not monitarily because they don’t have a lot of money, just time and attention.</p>
<p>Sometimes not just the g-parents. D has cousins (sisters, one in grad school and one a hs junior) who are regaling her with the “fact” that she should be able to get merit scholarships at Columbia or UPenn. Younger niece fully expects to get a merit scholarship to Columbia herself. Sylvan will be watching quietly from a corner about 15 months from now. :)</p>
<p>sylvan8798–heck, sometimes it’s parents that are clueless. One mom told me her then high school sophomore DD had already been offered a 1/2 academic, 1/2 athletic scholarship to Harvard…um, ok, how did she manage that when they give NEITHER :D.</p>
<p>Yea, the other day, friends were talking about their kids & applying to colleges. Kiddo wants to go to a small U that tends NOT to offer any merit awards. Parents are very nervous about it, since they’re already paying A LOT of money for their S to attend a private U. Both kids will be in college at the same time, so they MAY get som FAid, but it sounds like a mountain of debt. The younger child wants to major in art at expensive private U in CA.</p>
<p>We have a different problem - my mom keeps pushing OOS Flagship in the city she lives in. She doesn’t remember from conversation to conversation that it’s virtually identical to our state flagship (Big 10) which would be $20K cheaper minimum. And that S13 flat out refuses to attend a flagship because they’re too big (he’s visited both). </p>
<p>Our solution is to frequently refer to how “the important applications are coming up.” To me that means the scholarships, but it’s easily misinterpreted, and once S13 has chosen a school, I think she’ll be fine. </p>
<p>I’m mostly frustrated, I think, because I constantly question whether I’m doing the right thing and guiding him the right way, or if these choices I encouraged will make him miserable forever after (!!!). I do know better, mostly… but when someone else questions me, my hackles go up quick.</p>
<p>It’s not just grandparents - although they do expect my D will be accepted everywhere she applies - most people we know don’t understand how competitive admission to these schools has become. It’s not helpful to have people tell her she’ll get in everywhere, and she does understand that, so she is casting her net widely!</p>
<p>mamabear1234–in all fairness, college admissions is not really any more competitive now then it was back when we were applyin, just more people think they NEED to go to HYP or they will be flipping burgers for the rest of their lives. Parents have unrealistic expectations of their children too so they apply to these reach schools that the kids wouldn’t have gotten into 20 years ago either.</p>
<p>I do not get the “issue” part. Why any comments coming from the old pa are of major issue? Is he going to pay? If so, then take whatever his contribution and say “Thank you!”. If not, all these comments jsut moving the air and nothing else. Again, say “yes” and smile, they are not stupid, they will get the message. I would not spend half a second worrying about any of that.</p>
<p>Really, SteveMA? Acceptance rates at U Chicago haven’t changed much since my sister went there in 1976? I have unrealistic expectations of my kid? She wants to go to schools with her intellectual peers, which are quite rare in her HS. She’s not applying to HYP, but schools which will fit her. Some kids will be happy where they will easily be at the top of the class and unchallenged in the classroom, not this one!</p>
<p>SteveMA, mamabear is right, sorry. The numbers have changed dramatically–admissions rising and rising (including staggering numbers of foreign students, particularly now from mainland China, meaning that many strapped flagship universities are giving over seats that once belonged to in-state kids) and the numbers of available seats are staying essentially the same or rising incrementally. </p>
<p>As a college counselor, I deal with this lack of reality all the time–and as others have said, not just from older people. People in their thirties and forties don’t get it. Why do kids need college counseling, they say–I just filled out the forms and did it myself and was fine. They have no concept of how even competent and serious students now have to create layered lists, plans B and C and D, and find a safety that they will love if its the one that loves them.</p>
<p>When I started in this business in a competitive boarding school in NE, almost thirty years ago, it would be clear to us that our best students would get into an ivy or two or three, and a place like Swarthmore was a safety school for them. Today that would be an unimaginable strategy. </p>
<p>I do this work every day and sometimes can’t believe what I am seeing. After one of my students last year didn’t get into GWU or USC, I had to ask myself some questions about how much longer I wanted to do this work, in a year in which a student like that–a great kid, great scores and grades, full-paying customer to boot, was rejected from GWU and USC, when only a few years ago she would have had her pick, probably even including her first choice, Columbia. It just stops making sense after awhile. The success part of that story was her happiness in her safety school, Sewanee, which is a great pick for her. But getting families to understand that there is nothing wrong with their kid in this scenario can be a challenge. </p>
<p>It’s nothing like it was, nothing. I should write an article for grandparents, I think, or ask the Choice Blog to get somebody to write about it.</p>
<p>CollCouns—applications at certain schools…yes, the numbers are different but there are PLENTY of schools out there that don’t compete in the Ivy league :D.</p>
<p>We have twins. Between the 2 of them they applied to 19 schools. DD has been admitted to 9 of 9, DS so far 7 of 10. I have not doubt he will be at least at 9 or 10 with his 10th school being a lottery school. They were all great fits for the kids. We could have had totally different results if those schools were Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Dartmouth, Cornell, MIT, Stanford, etc. Among their friends, so far their friends are seeing similar results. So, is it REALLY more competative or is the number of “acceptable” colleges shrinking. Look at the 3.0 threads and the colleges people on that thread are considering, many, many of them are hyper reach schools for those kids. If they applied to more match schools, their acceptance rates would be a LOT higher.</p>
<p>Another example, one girl in our twin’s class, will graduate #1 in the class but only because she studies her rear off. She isn’t naturally a smart kid. Her ACT was 24. Until she got that score her college counselor was pushing her toward the HYP type schools because hey, she was #1 in a competitive school. They had her jumping through all kinds of hoops that were unnecessary. Partially because her parents have unrealistic expectations for her as well. Ask any of her classmates and they would have told you the same thing I am saying. She is state flagship material at best but really looking at an average, regional LAC but, that isn’t where she is applying. Her parents keep talking about how “competitive” it is–sure, when you have her stats it’s competitive. The rest of the gang of kids are doing just fine in their admissions–mostly they are 3.8 kids give or take a bit with 30 or better on the ACT.</p>
<p>I personally know some amazing kids who have been rejected by USC–great scores, grades, ECs, but there is just too much competition. Some of those kids were full pay as well, but there were over 40,000 applicants, many of whom were highly qualified.</p>
<p>Fortunately, if kids build their lists well and cast a decent net, they will have good choices to choose among come April. The kids I know who were sad not to get admitted to USC (or other Us) ended happy where planted, sometimes with significant merit awards to sweeten the disappointment. ;)</p>
<p>For me it’s the all knowing SIL that keeps pushing a private school her D dropped out of. Yes the merit awards are higher at private schools. My D has a merit award of $15,000 per year from a private university. But still, the cost is much higher than an OOS public school that only gave her $2,000 a year. And although she has a high ACT score, her unweighted GPA is only 3.3 and class rank top 50% is keeping her from more merit aid. SIL doesn’t get it. I explained that one Adcom told me flat out my D would have been better off taking all regular classes and getting straight A’s than having a lower GPA due to honors and AP classes, at least from a merit perspective. And that being in a college prep school with high achievers is not taken into consideration when looking at class rank. I simply stopped talking to any family members about it.</p>
<p>Mamadubbs–but would she gotten into that private school without taking the AP’s?</p>
<p>We hear a lot when people ask where our kids applied-why not any state schools–well, our state schools cost MORE then all of the other schools they applied to when you factor in merit aid–why would they apply there knowing it’s going to cost several thousand more?? :D. Right now they are looking at net costs in the $9000-13,000 range after their merit awards, which came on acceptance letters, state schools cost about $24,000 and IF they got merit aid, which is few and far between, they MIGHT get down to $20,000…</p>
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<p>No, but I have issues explaining reality to some of the people on CC.</p>
<p>My 90 year old dad loves to tell my S3 that he showed up at UofM in 1946 after serving in WWII with a high school transcript and discharge papers in hand, paid tuition and started at the engineering school…no app required. Now of course 40,000 kids want to go to UofM. My 85 year old mom talks about filling out a scholarship application (which WAS the college application) and getting a notice that yes she was a scholarship student and when to “show up.” They were totally disbelieving in 2006 when S1 started the quest but now with all the media attention they “get it” although they still think all private colleges cost $50,000 and all public schools are affordable if kids work and attend and live at home which is true in many respects. They never filled out finaid forms for any of ‘us kids’ so they were surprised at how complicated it has become and how “aid” can be given simply as tuition discounting AND also means financial scholarship. I told them it’s alittle bit like buying a car…you don’t really know when you walk into the dealership what you’re going to pay. That concept they understand.</p>
<p>As a general rule I make it a point not to discuss important decisions relating to my children with anyone but my husband and the children themselves. I come from a relatively big family by todays standards, and one that is uber competitive. I have saved myself a lot of aggravation by sharing news with my extended family only after it is a “done deal”. I caution my children to do the same, but will confess I have been “done in” by Facebook posts on more than one occasion!</p>
<p>Sounds like your family is doing a terrific job in this process with your twins, SteveMA, and I know exactly what you mean about the unrealistic expectations you talk about.</p>
<p>The ivy league isn’t really what I meant to write about–it was the many schools that used to be in reach of virtually every strong student that are now as competitive as the ivies were when I began working. When you talk to people in their forties who got into Johns Hopkins when it took half its applicants, for example, they can’t really wrap their minds around the change. GWU was, not long ago, a safety school for kids who were likely to get into Georgetown–which is now as competitive as ivies were with my early groups of counselees. </p>
<p>In boarding schools, you meet kids from all states. When I meet a B+ student with reasonably good scores who is in-state in Wisconsin, even I have trouble that Madison is a reach and quite unlikely, and her parents just can’t take in why their child ends up going to Eau Claire instead when in their day (these are people in their forties who hadn’t gone to college at all), it would have been a walk-in for a kid like theirs to go to Madison. For some kids, the aid they qualify for at the private schools they are admitted to just won’t make up the slack over the costs of state schools, so that’s not something you can just assume–though twins makes it more likely!</p>
<p>Absolutely you can build a great list for kids of schools that are wonderful fits…there is just a lot of family education that has to happen to get everybody excited about that sometimes. I like HarvestMoon1’s approach and will recommend it more often to families.</p>
<p>@CollCouns,</p>
<p>I remember applying to 4 schools when I was a HS student. It seems like kids nowadays are applying to 14 schools, so now the applicant pools at schools are scary immense.</p>
<p>Do you have a sense whether the quality of the pool is proportionate to what is was in the past? Or are there proportionately more applicants who really don’t stand a chance of being admitted, but send in an application anyway because of the ease of doing so w the Common App?</p>
<p>“She wants to go to schools with her intellectual peers”
-This means absolutely ANY UG. Any single one will have any level of intellect in student body, it is up to a student to seek them and having only one type of friends is NOT a good idea at all. My own D. who graduated #1 from private prep. HS was looking for variety of people to meet at her state public UG. It was one of the reasons why she was in Music Minor and Sorority, the last one was not in plans at all. She realized that if she sticks to pre-med crowd, she will not be completely satisfied. Looking back, she was absolutely correct. As she found at her Med. School as a second year Med. Students, many who did not bother to expose themselves to various type of personalities, end up still not connecting easily to others. She found them way too tense, pushy, not letting others to input to process. Not a good thing in proffession where lots of very important life saving decision is based on team work. She is still looking for grounded and well rounded people with friendly and accepting personalities and she seems to be successful in her search.</p>