<p>I totally agree MiamiDAP - my dd has actually taken off her list a couple of uber competitive schools that she definitely has the stats to get into but are lottery schools. She has decided that she would be more comfortable in a big school honors program so inside her classes she will be with mostly honors students but the rest of her college experience will be with state flagship population - we agree that this is a good strategy for our dd. She can go back to uber competitive in grad school if she so chooses.</p>
<p>CollCouns–your Madison/Eau Claire example is perfect–and illustrates what I am talking about. Eau Claire is a fantastic school but it doesn’t have the name recognition that Madison does. There are several programs at Eau Claire that are far superios to Madison but people don’t know that because it’s not on some “list” somewhere. Madison has been a competitive admission school for many, many years though. I know kids back when I was in school that didn’t get into Madison. Looking at our school’s Naviance, only about 1/2 the kids that apply to Eau Claire are admitted, kids with really high stats too. Our DS applied there, it’s 3rd on his list of places to go. Chances of him going there are about 1% though. If he gets into his lottery school with a good aid package, he will be there, if not, he will be at his second choice which did come through with a great aid package. Eau Claire, who knows yet. </p>
<p>I also agree with GMTplus7 that the number of applications kids send it has risen, because of the internet and the ease of application. We are guilty of that too. I applied to 3 schools back in the day, our kids applied to 9 and 10 schools this year. Two of those for sure where, what the heck, they are on the common app and the app fee is free applications. If they come back with a hefty merit aid package, great, if not, they were not really in the running. I think that is the case for a lot of kids these days. It makes the more popular schools more competitive, but for 90% of the schools out there, not really. Lower stat kids are probably finding it a bit harder to get into some formerly sure things out there, but once again, there are plenty of other schools out there for them too but a 3.0 kid with a 24 ACT isn’t getting into Madison, Dickinson, most of the California schools, etc. but they wouldn’t have back when I was in high school either.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to see stats of how many people that are deferred end up getting in - one would assume that this number has gone up significantly if the average top student is applying to 10-12 schools.</p>
<p>ahsmuoh–that information is on the Common Data Set for every school. If you google the school name common data set you can find that information. In our situation, our kids have applied and have been accepted already. DD committed to a school yesterday so that frees up her “spot” at all the other schools, which she will inform today.</p>
<p>OP, I have definitely been there! A thread I started on this last year is below… short summary is that my parents were (ARE) convinced that D2 is a shoo-in for Stanford. We are no longer discussing college admissions with them, and will be letting them know where she is attending on May 1. Although they keep pumping D1 for info every time they talk to her. But she is wise enough to pretend that she doesn’t know anything.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1175705-lost-my-dad-over-hpys.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1175705-lost-my-dad-over-hpys.html</a></p>
<p>We have had friends and neighbors with younger children who themselves graduated from Ivy League schools, and who urged us to “aim high” for frazzledkids once they found out their GPA’s and SAT scores. They could not understand why we insisted that our S and D apply to PSU or Pitt or both, or take either seriously once admitted, and seemed to think that even the honors colleges at these schools were “practically open admission.” Then their own children reached the age where they were beginning to think about colleges, and oh my…</p>
<p>And we haven’t even gotten to the issue of costs. Quite a few families in our district’s demographic are shocked to find out that they have been all but priced out of schools that do not give out merit aid, with the possible exception of HYP and a few others who define “need” very generously.</p>
<p>SteveMA - I have seen that info on common data sets but it would be interesting to see a study “across the board” and the trend in the US with the amount of applications going up - I bet it is a huge jump - it just sucks for the kids that have to wait. My dd also has been accepted to two schools but is not an athlete - she has 6 that she is seriously considering. She did apply to a 7th and she will probably decline that as soon as she hears unless the $$ is out of this world!!!</p>
<p>There was a great thread a year or so ago about meddling, unrealistic grandparents. Cant find that one right now-- can someone help? *** Ohhh intparent linked it above-- thats it!!
Did find this one- <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1283718-meddling-grandparents.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1283718-meddling-grandparents.html</a></p>
<p>My grandpa is convinced that I will not be able to afford to attend any private schools but that any public schools, especially in my home state, will be almost free. He also thinks that a 3.6 GPA is very good but the average score on the ACT among the general population is around a 27.</p>
<p>GMTPlus7, absolutely there are more applications to competitive colleges from students who don’t stand a chance. Those applications are easily eliminated. A really interesting statistic would be what percentage of QUALIFIED students was accepted at a selective school. There are also just more applications period, for all the reasons we read about in these posts: the common application, the heightened hysteria and fear, frankly, even lower airfares and more available information creates a more mobile student population. When I was in high school in the midwest, very few students saw themselves leaving the region for college. Now that is completely common–easy research on the web, low airfares, a broader view of themselves in the world.</p>
<p>However, to the meat of your question, I remember how much easier it was 15-25 years ago for room-temperature good students to get into competitive colleges than it is now for our most driven and talented. I can assess and compare the quality of the students I have worked with in my career, and my kids today have a tougher time being admitted to selective schools; they need to have a deep and varied list in order to be sure they will be happy in April. Most love the schools they attend and get a great education–but the fact remains that their choices are more limited than for students not that long ago.</p>
<p>The landscape has definitely changed from the days where our parents were students, as well as the days when we were students. Many alums candidly admit that they would NOT be admitted to their alma maters if they applied NOW. It makes you wonder how and why competition has heated up so much–partly because it’s a global market to get an education in the US, partly because many/most decent jobs these days do require a BA/BS at a minimum. My folks did not try to understand the college process once they graduated. They left us on our own but helped fill out financial forms for FAid. They just applaud the successes of their grandkids and do their best not to compare one kiddo or grandkiddo with another. It promotes family harmony and we are all on speaking terms. ;)</p>
<p>@intparent - Thanks for linking your thread. I read all the way through it and found it very beneficial. Thanksgiving is comig up for us, too! My ds is a junior this year as well. I think you were particularly wise to refuse to accept any money from your parents. For me, that would make me feel some sort of “obligation” to them, which would be most distasteful to me.</p>
<p>Interesting on the choosing majors point. My ds is unsure of what he wants to study, but my father-in-law has previously suggested (more than once) he go to medical school. That idea is not on ds’s radar at all. I had to say it three times within the course of three minutes on one occasion - getting louder each time - you know, kind of like when you are speaking someone who doesn’t speak your language? You just keep saying the same thing over and over again but louder each time?</p>
<p>Another poster mentioned that his/her parents thought they were foolish to have chosen to spend so much money on a college education. I get that same vibe from my in-laws - the idea that we would be crazy to spend 50K+ per year on ds’s education. But, I so see the deisre to brag in my in-laws that was mentioned. FIL is horrible about this. I had never thought about a “keeping-up-with-the-Joneses” mindset with regard to one’s grandchildren, but obviously this exists.</p>
<p>I haven’t read through the meddling grandparents thread that was linked but plan to do that next. There is great comfort in knowing that I am not alone!!</p>
<p>My father is like that guy from “Memento” as far as what I say about college goes… we hit the reset button every time I see him and the topic comes up. My brother and I both went to Ivies so he always wants to know what Ivies DS is applying to. I think I briefly got his attention when I say I would not have gotten in with my old stats were I applying now. </p>
<p>Not only do they not have any $$$ invested in the matter, they are not even the kind to send care packages :(</p>
<p>My mom sends care packages, but her cookies are AWFUL. My kids say they always end up having to throw them away, no one will eat them. No one tells her, of course…</p>
<p>Wouldn’t it be a great service (to us!) for the AARP to run an article in their magazine about how hard it is to get into top colleges these days, how much it costs, and how limited merit aid is at top schools?</p>
<p>My parents are similar, and it still hasn’t gotten to them how competitive some US universities are. They think that as long as I work really hard and get top grades and a perfect SAT I can get in at HYPS and that Brown and Cornell can be safeties and Barnard and W&M are “too low” to even think about. We’re in Asia though I’m American - my parents were 1st gen and they went to above-mentioned brand name schools, and many other colleges I’m considering they’ve never heard about. Anyway over this break I’m probably going to get them to read a few articles about admissions and also to get onto CC if possible, so they get that reality-check. </p>
<p>As for my grandparents in China, the only US universities they’ve heard of are Harvard and Princeton, maybe Yale and Stanford and MIT. And they expect me to go there - anyway I’m not worrying so much about them because the process with them has always been to apply first, get results, make decisions, and THEN tell them.</p>
<p>My children are the only grandchildren on both sides, so my DS (who is a freshman at college this year) did not get compared to other grandchildren, but to grandchildren of my IL’s friends! “Mrs. B’s GD just got in early to …” (It was rolling admissions) How come GS hasn’t gotten in anywhere yet?" My DS did not apply to any rolling admissions schools, and only one EA which was a HYP.
Or: 'So & so got a full ride at …How come GS isn’t getting full rides?" etc. Meanwhile, I know that those schools don’t offer “full rides” in the way my MIL/FIL mean it. They think that those families aren’t paying a penny - those kids are getting some or all tuition, at best.
The hardest part was that any rejection or any school that didn’t offer a “full ride” was met with disappointment and a “tsk tsk” The biggest reason given" Well, maybe if you hadn’t homeschooled him through 8th grade, he might have had a better chance." Just to put it in perspective - my DS is a freshman at U of Notre Dame, studying Engineering - and got enough FA and outside scholarships to more than meet our EFC. Maybe there’s just no pleasing some people!</p>
<p>BurningIce, once the threads with acceptances/rejections for some of those Ivies come out this year, you might send links to your parents. 
Just so they can see who is getting rejected. Of course… they just might crank up the pressure on you to be more like those accepted students (go cure cancer in your spare time!). Meanwhile, you have a good perspective on this, keep up your hunt for matches and a safety or two as well.</p>
<p>I think the whole problem comes down to what people are used to. My DS looks great when compared to most of his classmates. I went to teacher conferences last night and was asked by teachers if my child “is good at every thing” and was told that he was the most “brilliant student” that those teachers had ever taught. Which is very nice, but lets face it, he hasn’t cured cancer so his chances of getting into a lottery (hmfr ) school is IMHO pretty slim. I think most grand parents/people/teachers get used to who they see, but once these kids get compared to the best from around the nation, they are pretty average (my DS included). I, honestly, have no idea how my kid matches up, sometimes he sounds great, sometimes (especially on CC) I am completely humbled and start worrying about him getting accepted to any school…oh yeah he was already accepted to one :). If I can’t decide if he is the greatest kid ever, how in the world can I expect his grandparents? ;)</p>
<p>[Grandpa</a> Jay good, parent Jay bad for college search - Class Struggle - The Washington Post](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/class-struggle/post/grandpa-jay-good-parent-jay-bad-for-college-search/2011/10/27/gIQA3VuVNM_blog.html]Grandpa”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/class-struggle/post/grandpa-jay-good-parent-jay-bad-for-college-search/2011/10/27/gIQA3VuVNM_blog.html)</p>
<p>Well… just because that student had a bad parent in the search does NOT mean that most of our parents (the kids’ grandparents) would be better. That would be a horrible strategy for my kids, and many other posters on here. If we think the rules of admission have changed since we applied, just listening to my parents talk about it from 60 years ago is a complete time warp!</p>