does anyone else here have an EFC of $0

Paying for College
41

<p>Straight from columbia's website.</p>

<p>In order to be eligible for HEOP, applicants must:</p>

<pre><code>* Reside in New York State and be high school graduates.
* Demonstrate (through academic records) a need for HEOP support services.
* Meet economic eligibility criteria set by the New York State Education Department (see below).
</code></pre>

<ul>
<li><p>Demonstrate (through academic records) a need for HEOP support services.
STUY/BX/BKTECH = eliminated.</p>

<ul>
<li>Meet economic eligibility criteria set by the New York State Education Department (see below).
top priv h.s. schools = eliminated.</li>
</ul></li>
</ul>

<p>you must also be first generation to goto college in your family and a minority.</p>

<p>even so it's still hard to get into... because columbia offers this program to VERY few students.</p>

42

<p>Here is the link from Columbia's website for HEOP:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/faq/aid.php#16%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/faq/aid.php#16&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
you must also be first generation to goto college in your family and a minority.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>not true, while being a URM is a hook and being a first generation college student is a tip factor, students of all races are admitted through HEOP.</p>

<p>
[quote]
STUY/BX/BKTECH = eliminated.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not true I personally know a number of students from these schools that are now HEOP students (there are a number of low income students at these schools that meet the criteria).</p>

<p>Also keep in mind that they have a built in potenital pool of people and will end up admitting a few students through their own double discovery program, the barnard college STEP program and the Liberty Partnership (at barnard college) <a href="http://www.columbia.edu/cu/college/ddc/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.columbia.edu/cu/college/ddc/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.barnard.edu/admiss/precollege/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.barnard.edu/admiss/precollege/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

43

<p>This thread scares me... Should we have waited to send in our FAFSA until we received acceptance letters for my daughter? Although they push you to get it filed asap January 1, at least it would not be on file for them to look at as they review the application file. One college my D applied to asked for the Profile and I called and said can we wait until we learn if she's accepted first before filling it out and they said it's better to get it on file so that we can put together a financial aid letter and send that out too. So we did. My D isn't the strongest applicant, and is in a situation to qualify for a lot of financial aid, which it seems is not a good combination! She has received a few acceptances from EA colleges, but her top choices are still out there and will be reviewed in the coming weeks.</p>

44

<p>Donna,</p>

<p>The purpose of this thread is not to scare people but to make people aware. Based on some of the postings that having a "0" or really low EFC is a good thing (and in some cases it can be, but overall a student and their family must be really diligent in understanding financial aid at the colleges that they are considering).</p>

<p>many people are quick to say that the ivies give great financial aid to low income students. For the most part this is true especially at heavily endowed schools like HYP as every ivy, stanford, MIT and a few other selective schools do have wonderful low income initiatives in place. </p>

<p>However, if you or your student is not first admitted to any of these schools, their wonderful financial aid is a moot point because you will not be getting it. With the acceptance rates at almost all of the ivies at under 20% and admissions at HYP to be in the single digits, the odds are overwhelmingly not in the favor of any student who applies.</p>

<p>THe majority of the colleges in this country are not need blind so the ability to pay will come into play at different stages of the process especially at schools where there is a limited amount of free money. IF having to decide between 2 students, the tip will go toward the student who "needs" less of the colleges financial resources.</p>

<p>One of the other points that many of us who post are just trying help pass on useful and informative information because money is a big part of attending college.</p>

<p>The are a number of us who are long term posters who have seen and heard the tales of woe from students who have been admitted to colleges and can't come up with the monies to pay for them. </p>

<p>Many of us who post here that say "look become well informed about the process" are ourselves parents of college students, who have "been there, done that". In addition many of the posters on the financial aid forum are educations who have who are out there working with students everyday explaining some of the same concepts that we write about on this forum (i write from the perspective of being a parent of a current college junior, living through the financial aid process my self and as a parent and 15 years of working with students reutrning adults and high school students in the college admissions and financial aid process and a most of my high school population are low income students). I know with my own D going through the college process, she applied to 7 schools all that are need blind, meet 100% demonstrated need and meets the needs using large amounts of grant/scholarship aid. She was accepted to all 7 schools and there
was over a 10,000 difference between the "best" and "worse" package (mind you each school was working with exactly the same information).</p>

<p>Other things we just want students and their families to be aware of is that very few schools meet 100% of demonstrated need that is heavy on scholarships and/or grant money and yes, loans are considered financial aid. A school can give you a package that consists of all loans and will have still "met your need".</p>

<p>There are a number of resources that students and their family can go to get an idea of how much need a school meets and how schools package their aid.
3 of the best ones are:</p>

<p>The U.S. new report (on-line edition)
College board- do a school search then just click on the financial aid tab
The schools on website- many of them have links to their common data sets (which gives a wealth of information about admissions, financial aid, retention rates, etc at that school)</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=76444%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=76444&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>good luck to you and your D as you go through this process.</p>

45

<p>Thanks, Sybbie! That is a lot of useful information. I guess somewhere in the back of my mind I recall stories of how one student was accepted to X school while another, equally qualified, wasn't... and that it was on account of the fact that the first student's family could pay the full tuition. </p>

<p>I am going to look at the websites your provided.</p>

<p>Thank you!</p>

46

<p>"My D isn't the strongest applicant, and is in a situation to qualify for a lot of financial aid, which it seems is not a good combination! "</p>

<p>What's most worrisome about the situation is that if your D gets in, she may not get the aid that she needs. Does the college promise to meet 100% of students' documented financial need? If so, realize that means that the college promises to meet 100% of what the college -- not you -- views as your financial need. The college also may choose to meet that need by loans and work study only.</p>

<p>If the college is one of the many that do not guarantee to meet students' documented need, the college may provide aid (and that may be 100% grants) that meets as little as 60% of what the college (not you) believes is your D's need. You'd be expected to somehow make up the gap, which for most families is simply not possible. </p>

<p>The most important thing for you to worry about is that your D has a financial safety that she knows will accept her and that she definitely can afford and would be fulfilled by attending.</p>

<p>I notice from your posts on other threads that all of your D's SAT scores appear to be below 550. Usually colleges that accept such students lack excellent financial aid. For that reason, you should make sure that your D is applying to some colleges where she knows she will be accepted and can afford. That may be 2-year or 4-year public colleges within commuting distance.</p>

47

<p>Everyone here seems to loathe student loans. The fact is that there is no right to graduate college without owing a penny. The other fact is that MILLIONS of studnets that have used student loans to go to great schools (at all levels) and get an education that allows them to earn money and live lives that they would not have had the opportunity without those loans.</p>

<p>It was not uncommon in my day for people to leave school with tens of thousands (yes, 30, 40 and even 50,000) in loans that needed to be repaid and were repaid with some degree of sacrifice but by no means debilitating sacrifice. That is the cost of getting a superior education. No one should think it should be handed to them on a silver platter.</p>

<p>Student loans should be viewed as a tool to a greater end not as an evil to be avoided at all costs.</p>

48

<p>I don't think that everyone seems to loathe student loans (as my D will definitely have one when she finishes). However, I do think that you need to carefully plan how much debt you are willing to take on especially if you plan on attending graduate/professional school. Going in, I told D that she will have to try to graduate with the lowest amount of student debt possible so that she will have more $$ available later.</p>

<p>My D is a junior and planning to attend Law school. So once again she is looking at the programs offered at the schools and I am looking at the $$. While doing the financial aid research for law school we already know that there is a cap on the amount of loans one could take under the stafford loan program (this amount includes undergraduate debt). </p>

<p>D is interested in Penn, who specifically states:</p>

<p>
[quote]
Prior and In-School Credit History</p>

<p>Your credit history will be, and will remain, very important as you seek ways to fund your legal education. It is critical that you have a strong and clean credit record.</p>

<p>We encourage all applicants to order a credit report now to see if there are any problems that will need to be addressed before you apply for financial aid. Too often, we see students who have been reported as a credit risk by creditors, sometimes without their knowledge. Any credit problems need to be resolved before enrollment in the Law School. . </p>

<p>Applicants may be denied loan assistance, prior to or during law school, based on a negative credit rating or if they have incurred what lenders consider “maximum debt.”’ It is important that you consider this and manage your finances accordingly, now and throughout law school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://www.law.upenn.edu/prospective/jd/financing.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.law.upenn.edu/prospective/jd/financing.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>She has been saving her money and is close to completely paying off all of her credit card debt so that she will be in the best postition to borrow what she needs and have as many choices as possible. Since I already know that she will have 6 figure debt when she finishes, I would be remiss as a parent to encourage her to take on an additional 50k or more in undergraduate debt.</p>

49

<p>its only a good thing if u get into an ivy or top private school willling to meet 100% of need</p>

50

<p>I think it's strange that people get so worked up over a student loan but won't hesitate to take out a car loan for thousands of dollars.</p>

51

<p>a car gives immediate gratification.. a student loan may give absolutely no gratification... especially if you are a middle school teacher in Utah. In fact, what I'm finding is that employers are more willing to hire non-college educated people than college educated people (in Utah) because educated people have leverage, and that's offensive to their pride and business. This is my last semester in college, and I graduate with a degree in Accounting (along with 1.5 years of computer technology experience, and 3+ years of customer service, etc.), and as I interview with employers, they tell me that their concern is they won't be able to afford me when I graduate.</p>

52

<p>"Being poor is a great thing especially in terms of a higher education"</p>

<p>Not at all true. Probably most students who are poor lack the academic background and scores to get into the highly endowed colleges that give excellent deals to poor students. This is because: 1. Those colleges may accept as few as 10% of their applicants; 2. Since the quality of public schools depends on property taxes, most poor students go to some of the country's worst schools and consequently lack the academic background and guidance counseling to get into those competitive colleges with excellent financial aid.</p>

<p>I BEG TO DIFFER WITH YOUR OPINIONATED EXPLANATION: MY HIGH SCHOOL WAS ONE OF THE POOREST IN STUDENT DEMOGRAPHIC AND SEVERLY UNDERFUNDED IN FINANCES. WITH THAT IN MIND OUR GRADUATING CLASS OF 2004 INCLUDED 6 HARVARD ACCEPTEES, 2 YALE, 1 STANFORD AND 2 MIT ACCEPTEES. ABOUT 61% OF THESE APPLICANTS WERE SUPPLIED WITH NUMEROUS GRANTS AND NEED BASED SCHOLARSHIPS. A FRIEND OF MINE WHO HAPPENED TO LIVE IN A TRAILER PARK WAS ACCEPTED TO HARVARD WITH ALL EXPENSES INC. BOOKS AND TUITION.</p>

53

<p>Kunfuzed,
Of course, there are exceptions to what I stated, and it seems that you are fortunate enough to have attended a school that was an exception. From what I've read, the exceptions tend to be schools that are very focused on the students and adapt educational methods to the students' learning styles. You can find some reseach about this. </p>

<p>Here's info from a Brookings Institute report that describes problems besetting urban public schools with poor students:</p>

<p>"Urban education suffers from many problems, but worst among them is the spread of concentrated poverty, where multiple social ills converge. The correlates of poverty—poor health, inadequate housing, high crime rates, single-parent families, substance abuse—create an environment in which heroic efforts are necessary to sustain hope and aspirations for the future. In some cities—such as Atlanta; Camden, New Jersey; Cleveland; Dayton; Detroit; East St. Louis, Illinois; Hartford; Miami; and New Orleans—more than 40 percent of children live in poverty.</p>

<p>Schools can provide health services, adult education, and a variety of other programs to assist children and their families, but in the end their primary responsibility is to provide a superior education to the children. If they do not do it, no other institution will. For children in poverty, effective schools are crucial; the schools are their last, best hope for a better life. Schools cannot create economic activity or jobs, but only they can teach children the knowledge and skills without which they cannot improve their life prospects.</p>

<p>Urban schools are not meeting this fundamental expectation. Not only is performance strikingly poor, but also, in many districts, school buildings are in disrepair, supplies are inadequate, and teachers' salaries are not competitive with neighboring suburbs. Because of what are often poor working conditions and noncompetitive salaries, urban districts have trouble attracting and retaining well-qualified teachers. Nationally, 39.5 percent of science teachers lack either an undergraduate major or minor in science and 34 percent of mathematics teachers lack either a major or minor in mathematics. The figures are even higher in urban districts. For example, in urban schools where half or more of the students are poor, 45 percent of the mathematics teachers have neither a major nor a minor in mathematics or mathematics education."
<a href="http://www.brook.edu/gs/brown/bpep/1999.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.brook.edu/gs/brown/bpep/1999.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

54

<p>Being that no one is talking about the california system, i will shed some light as to show a state where having a 0 EFC can truly benefit you.. (its still hard but there is more benefit in CA than in other states, atleast that is my view after reading this post)</p>

<p>I have 0EFC.
I go to a top 25 schools (26 now) --UCLA
UCLA is not need blind as far as i know. </p>

<p>My financial Package looks like this:</p>

<p>5500 Student loan ( stafford)
250 ASG grant
7000 Cal Grant A
1500 Cal Grant B
740 University Grant
4050 Pell Grant </p>

<p>total 18990- </p>

<p>There was also a 2500 plus loan which i did not take b/c it is MORONIC that they offer parental loans to people on SSI???? i still can not get past this one, i appealed and everything but nothing i could do, and i couldnt put that kind of debt on my mom . </p>

<p>So anyways, you can go to a top school, with no MERIT aid, and have a 0EFC. In the sence of california, you are somewhat lucky to have a 0EFC, because you have amazing state schools at your disposal and grant programs that will cover ALL of your tuition, as is the case with Cal Grant A (Cal Grant b is for books/expenses)</p>

55

<p>Going the Distance...from your signature, it looks like you are attending UC Berkeley. While your options were "restricted" due to your low EFC, Berkeley is a mighty fine school that MANY folks would welcome an acceptance to. I'm guessing you must be a CA resident for the cost to be affordable there. CA has a terrific university system both in the UC's and the Cal State system. Sadly, some folks live in states where the choices are not so plentiful at the instate U's.</p>

56

<br>


<br>

<p>I have to say...these top schools typically say they do not give merit aid. BUT gaining acceptance to them is highly competitive. In my opinion, their need based packages are the ultimate merit aid because just getting IN to these schools requires that the student be at the top of the game in admissions.</p>

57

<p>I BEG TO DIFFER WITH YOUR OPINIONATED EXPLANATION: MY HIGH SCHOOL WAS ONE OF THE POOREST IN STUDENT DEMOGRAPHIC AND SEVERLY UNDERFUNDED IN FINANCES. WITH THAT IN MIND OUR GRADUATING CLASS OF 2004 INCLUDED 6 HARVARD ACCEPTEES, 2 YALE, 1 STANFORD AND 2 MIT ACCEPTEES. ABOUT 61% OF THESE APPLICANTS WERE SUPPLIED WITH NUMEROUS GRANTS AND NEED BASED SCHOLARSHIPS. A FRIEND OF MINE WHO HAPPENED TO LIVE IN A TRAILER PARK WAS ACCEPTED TO HARVARD WITH ALL EXPENSES INC. BOOKS AND TUITION.</p>

<p>I take this with a huge grand of salt....</p>

58

<p>My EFC is 0. I live in Georgia and I am applying to Fordham and NYU, in NY. Do you think i'll get any aid?</p>

59

<p>Having a zero EFC may be fine for the few students who are accepted to a school that meets all, or nearly all of their college expense. That is just a very tiny piece of the populaton. A zero EFC may not be fine for families that have important needs that their income cannot meet. The less money you have and earn, the fewer your options are. Few people at most income brackets have their finances in perfect control and balance, but for those on the lower end that are barely making enough to make ends meet, a crisis too often cannot be met by flexibility that those with more money tend to have. Poverty is a BIG problem in this country, and has strong linkages to many problems. If a student who has a zero EFC and gets into a college that pays it all, and has a family that is fine with the income that generated that , it is a rare situation, and they are blessed. That is why a zero EFC is not considered a great thing. In any isolated situation where a student gets full aid because of this low EFC, and is happy about the occaision, yes, it is a good thing for that student and his family that he got the money, but that the family has a low income is not usually part of the joy over the college award. The more money you have, the more options you have is what it come down to,</p>

<p>Mackie, to answer your question directly, yes, I think you'll get aid. With a zero EFC, you will be eligible for federal aid which are grants, loans and work study. The problem will be that those guaranteed amounts are a drop in the bucket towards Fordham's and NYU's costs. Neither school guarantees providing 100% of need, and they ofen do not. That is not to say that they will not; it has happened; there are kids who are getting 100% of their need covered from those schools, but there are more did not. If you have excellent stats and something those schools want enough, you have a better shot at getting a generous package from them. If you truly want to go there, go on ahead and apply and try. I suggest that you (and I suggest this to everyone) have some financial safety schools as well just in case you do not get enough aid.</p>

60

<p>Thanks for your response. I appreciate your honesty and thorough response very much.</p>