does anyone else here have an EFC of $0

Paying for College
81

<p>yah i also agree with Jillpod, i was offended by some of the posters in this thread bashing poor kids.. .. we work 100x harder to get what we need but no one sees it b/c we dont have the time for hours of ECs b/c we have to put in hours of work instead. </p>

<p>I am graduting 10k from undergrad, but thats not accurate, considering that I used credit cards instead of taking the PLUS loans... which i couldnt do even though they were offered. </p>

<p>poor people get screwed too, it just impacts us a lot more than you rich folks. My mom is on SSI, and was offered a 2500 plus loan for me, what was i supposed to do, have her take it, or use credit cards......... i mean talk about getting screwed .... thats a good chunk of money i had to "find".</p>

82

<p>It really is too bad that some people who are well off are envious of poor students. What's disheartening is that apparently some people have no clue what it means to be poor nor do those middle class and affluent students realize how lucky they themselves are.</p>

<p>To clarify one thing that I said that was misinterpreted: Poor kids typically go to substandard schools and have substandard teachers. As a result, poor kids do not have the academic achievements in terms of things like college board scores, critical thinking skills, and academic skills -- since no matter how smart a student is, if his/her teacher is bad, then the student is not going to reach their potential. I am not saying that poor students are stupid. I'm saying that due to inferior schooling, most don't have the opportunity to develop their academic skills the way that students do in excellent school systems.</p>

<p>What the majority of poor students experience in school is different than the situation for poor kids who are fortunate enough to go to excellent prep schools (through programs like ABC) or the middle and upper class students who go to very good public or private schools.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, in the U.S., the quality of one's public school depends on the incomes of people in the school district. Why? Public schools get a large part of their funding by property taxes. The more affluent districts are able to attract and pay better quality teachers. In addition, more affluent parents are much more involved in schools. They will complain and get rid of teachers who are incompetent. They also will do things to enrich instruction.</p>

<p>As an example, in an AP English class in a one school, the teacher was having the students do word seaches: those puzzles in which students circle words embedded in the puzzles. The parents found out about this, complained to the principal, and the teacher was eventually moved to the non AP program. The parents complained because they realized that their kids needed to be spending class time writing essays, analyzing literature and doing other things to improve their writing and critical thiinking skills.</p>

<p>This was in a magnet school, and most of the kids taking AP classes came from educated, middle class or wealthy homes. The teacher ended up teaching students in the nonmagnet part of the school, and many of those students were low income and from homes in which the parents hadn't graduated from college. As one can imagine, through no fault of their own, the kids are not likely to get stronger language skills who ended up with a teacher who thinks that word searches should be done in high school English classes.</p>

<p>The more affluent districts also have more AP and IB classes because they have more students who want and are capable of taknig those classes. The schools in the poorer districts have more remedial classes because they have high drop out rates and consequently have to focus on helping students simply graduate from college.</p>

<p>Back to the subject of financial aid: It is extremely important for poor students to realize that there are a very limited number of colleges that are extremely generous with financial aid for v poor students. Yale, Harvard, Bowdoin, Princeton are some of the few that give excellent aid packages to poor students and require either no or minimal loans.</p>

<p>Most students, however, whether they are rich or poor lack the grades, scores, and outstanding ECs (BTW, working a job -- particularly to help one's family -- does count as an EC, a strong EC at that. If one can't do formal ECs because of having to take care of younger siblings while one's parent works, your doing those household responsibilities also counts as a strong EC) that would allow them any chance of admission at the colleges that I mentioned, which are some of the most competitive in the country.</p>

<p>Even though, for example, about 90% of Harvard's 20,000+ applicants qualify for admission based on scores and grades, because of space, only about 1 in 10 applicants will be admitted. When it comes to the other schools that I mentioned, probably at least 80% of the applicants are rejected because of space.</p>

<p>Since most other colleges in the country will either provide very poor students with financial aid that has as much as $20,000 a year in loans (far too much to bear!) or the colleges willl provide a financial aid package (including loans, work study and grants) that meets as little as 75% of the students' need, poor students are at a great disadvantage when it comes to colllege admissions.</p>

<p>More affluent students may be able to more comfortably take on loans because they know that they can rely on their parents to help them do things like get a car, furniture, and move when they graduate from college and move to get a job. Poor students, however, may need to be providing financial assistance to their family during and after college.</p>

<p>Similarly, more affluent students may be able to fill financial aid gaps by having their parents take a second mortage or getting $ from their grandparents. Those aren't options for poor students.</p>

<p>Consequently, it is very important for poor students to make very sure that they are applying to some schools that are financial safeties. Probably for virtually all, these would be local public 4-year and 2-year colleges.
There is no shame in starting at a 2-year college. Many students, including bright and middle class students do that. Some do it because they aren't ready to leave home yet. Some do it because they get excellent merit aid. Some do it because they like the small, nurturing classes. Some do it to save money so as to be able to more easily afford a private education for the last 2 years of their college.</p>

<p>In my large state, either the gov or lieutenant gov. got his start at a community college, and then went on eventually to graduate from law school. There are many top business leaders as well as political leaders in my college city that did similar things. </p>

<p>While some students go to CCs because they are lazy and not too bright, there are many very bright, ambitious and capable students who go to CCs and then go on to stellar careers in a variety of professional fields.</p>

<p>For various reasons, I even had suggested CCs to my sons, who each had scores in the 98-99th percentile, and came from educated, middle class homes. One S was interested in music production, and the CC where he was then living had an excellent program in it. The other S wants small classes, and I think that a CC could be a good option for him. With a 2.8 or so average (due to being disorganized and a procrastinator) in a rigorous program, I think that the nurturing of a CC could be a benefit for him, something he couldn't get from a large state public university. I'm also not willing to pay lots of money to send him to a private college until he shows he has overcome his procrastination difficulties.</p>

83

<p>No one is bashing a zero EFC. And anyone with a zero EFC that can get through any college gets my respect. It's is harder to do with less financial help from the family. Right down from the paper work that needs to be done to get the funds to apply and pay for the education. A zero EFC is a challenge. How anyone can say otherwise, baffles me. But then if you want to strive for a zero EFC for your own children, since it is so wonderful, go right on ahead. Easier to achieve that than to earn, save and invest enough to comfortably pay those private college costs.</p>

84

<p>Sergio, just by looking at the % of kids in the top schools that qualify for Pell grants, you can see that it is a quite an accomplishment for kids with low EFCs to get into these schools. Especially when you consider how many more famiies there are out there who have low incomes over high. High income kids are waaaaay over represented in the elite college crowd. That is why these schools do recruit and give some extra consideration to those kids who are financially disadvantaged over those who tend to get into these schools. There just aren't enough of these kids who meet or come close to these stats overall, and I don't see any overt jealousy about them. The resentment I see coming up over the top, and from you too, is over those "silver spoon" kids with every advantage who make up the bulk of the population in the top schools. There is no disputing this--go to any top prep school college accept site and you can see who is getting a lion's share of the spots at the most sought after schools. It is unfair, and the schools are making an effort as is the government to share the wealth. I have never seen resentment in this regard. The complaints are that there is still not enough being done, and for too few families and students, not too many. Even in very sensitive issues such as affirmative action admission, I have yet to hear a peep about such admissions when they involve kid with fewer advantages and poor economic support. So you are so way off in your sentiments. Perhaps there is envy among your peers who are dependent on their parents to pay their way through college , and those parents though they have the money, are not willing to pay, or have not managed finances well enough to pay. But any rational adult is not going to be jealous of a zero EFC kid who has the opportunity to go to college. That is some of the GOOD news that we love to see in the media, to balance so much of the bad news. In fact, it is usually the kids, if not always, on this site who celebrate their zero EFC. All we are saying is that the zero EFC is not indicative of a full ride to anywhere, and not something to envy in the whole scheme of things. I guess if you are a kid who knows your family is definitely not going to pay for you, that zero is your possible ticket out, but for those of us who see the whole picture, we know that most kids with a zero EFC are going to have a hard time getting the funds to make it through college, and a hard time thereafter paying back those loans which often fund that zero EFC. This website has a very unusual makeup in that most families and kids who post here are very college minded and often sport unusually high academic stats and goals. Naturally, being a college site. But this is not representative of the state of things in general. A zero or low EFC makes it difficult for many highschool counselors to help a kid find a reasonable college program, especially if he wants to and should go away for college. Most kids are not HPY and other high financial aid college material, and that includes those with low EFCs as well.</p>

85

<p>Why would ANYONE want to have a $0 EFC?</p>

<p>It means you're POOR.</p>

<p>Bottom line.</p>

86

<p>Northstarmom your logic seems paradoxical. You claim that poorer students are subjected to "poorer" education standards and ultimately suffer intellectually as a result, and yet you encourage these "poorer" students to attend community colleges, which probably house the worst of all teachers...I would know I took audit classes at one. Many students do not want to attend a good college for merely the prestige as most have insinuated; they want to attend a good college to receive a "good education", which is an issue you fail to comprehend. Also, attending a community college drastically affects where a person can transfer to and is a seriously offensive recommendation to a "poor" student that has worked equally as hard and probably harder than a wealther student. </p>

<p>America is supposed to be a conglomerate of knowledge, tolerance, and social mobility yet it has the highest tuition rates of industrialized nations. Seems rather duplicitous.</p>

87

<p>iismepeter: Bugger off snob.</p>

88

<p>Northstarmom please spare us of your ten-paragraph rant about things we already know, while clearly avoiding the issue at hand. Get to the point. That is, you are encouraging poorer families' kids to go to community colleges over private ones where they'd have to pay maybe a tad more. What kind of idiot would make that stupid of a decision? Maybe the pretentious snobs of your kind wished that were the case so all your own child-kings can have a spot at the ivy leagues without competition from the poor kids. </p>

<p>Calling part-time jobs worked by poor families' children "excellent extracurricular activities" is just snobbery at its finest. Do you think the poor kids CHOSE to take time off their studies and leisure to work at grocery stores?</p>

89

<p>When you have a low or zero EFC, do not have the grades or test scores to get into those colleges that tend to meet full need, and have not been educated to the standard that is expected from such college, a community college may be your best option. It is inexpensive so that your government money can pay for all or most of it, often has flexible schedules, permits part time attendance and has "bridge" courses to bring you up to college level. In fact, I have seen non credit courses at very low prices offered that can help those who need help in writing, study skills, organization, basic math, basic computer skills, that you may not be able to get at a 4 year school. I would recommend comm college not just for low EFC kids, but any kids who are not ready, prepared for a 4 year school.<br>
I doubt NSM is recommending comm college for those kids who are ready, able, and accepted to a 4 year school with the costs all managed. There is no insult intended. She has recommended them to her own sons, given their situations.</p>

90

<p>Hey, SV I understand your vexation, truly I do, but try to refrain from the personal attacks and remain rational; otherwise we are no different from some of the other pretentious posters.</p>

91

<p>Part time jobs worked by anyone are considered extracurricular activities. I don't believe they are judged in terms of "excellence" as they are in terms of whether the student is making some efforts to pay for himself. The questions asked about a job pertain more to what the job serves, and those who work to support their famiies and themselves are given extra consideration in select school admissions. IF this is snobbery at its finest, perhaps this consideration should be removed altogether, especially if it is insulting to those in this situation.<br>
Sergio, no one is making any assumptions about you or insulting you. This is a forum for discussion. Though your ideas and arguments are welcome, the snide and rude remarks are not. I do not know the company you keep, but I do not know anyone who does not want those who are disadvantaged to have the same opportunities as everyone else, and to view their histories and achievements in light of their environments. As I said in an earlier post, most vents and resentments tend to be directed to those on the other end of the scale, just as yours are.</p>

92

<p>"I doubt NSM is recommending comm college for those kids who are ready, able, and accepted to a 4 year school with the costs all managed."</p>

<p>Oh contraire, she is. There are many students that apply to colleges, who are as qualified and even more qualified than wealthy students and yet don’t receive substantial financial aid. So, according NSM’s logic they should be forced to “settle” because their socioeconomic status does not warrant them an education worthy of wealthy students.</p>

<p>"When you have a low or zero EFC, do not have the grades or test scores to get into those colleges that tend to meet full need, and have not been educated to the standard that is expected from such college, a community college may be your best option."</p>

<p>This statement reeks of hierarchical and bombastic arrogance. You are practically stating that poor people are dumb. </p>

<p>"but any kids who are not ready, prepared for a 4 year school."</p>

<p>Exactly, all such students, affluent or destitute, that have “slacked off” and not bothered in school should attend such institutions. Students though, that have worked arduously through high school earning good grades and demonstrating their ability, should be given an equal chance of admission, affluent or destitute.</p>

93

<p>Ahhh! </p>

<p>Personally attacking the "viewpoints" of one poster is somewhat silly, eh? I mean, no offense to NSM or anything, but if you do not like her own personal "viewpoint", then ignore it! It is not like the gal is bullying anyone or something mean like that.</p>

94

<p>In all but the need blind schools, students are given "equal" chances of admissions. Actually, the more selective schools and those whose admissions offices take care to read and evaluate each file thoroughly, look at the apps in light of opportunities and adversity rather than equally. </p>

<p>What do you suggest for kids who have low EFCs, poor/mediocre test scores, and not been prepared for many entry level college courses do, if they feel they want to go to college? They are not going to get merit money and are unlikely to get enough financial aid to go to many schools that may accept them but do not provide anywhere near 100% if need. Remember I am not talking about the kid who is HPY material. I am talking about someone who did adequately in highschool and feels he wants to continue his education. Perhaps on an upwards trend in learning but those grades have not yet caught up with him. There are schools that may have "bridge" programs and give personal attention for that category of kid, but they are often expensive and not nearby. They also often do not give 100% of need.<br>
Also there are kids at all EFC numbers whose family cannot or will not come up with the money for college. What should they do? Community or any local state school that is affordable may well be the best choice for these kids. It's just that those families with the higher EFCs, have more money, and therefore more choices, and statistically will be able to help their kid meet the gap between cost and what they can pay without sacrifice. Big difference between sacrificing getting a new car vs paying the rent. And I don't see NSM recommending comm college for those kids who are ready, able and accepted toa 4 year school WITH THE COSTS ALL MANAGED. What do you suggest a kid to do when those costs are not manageable? If the college does not cough up the money, the parents are not creditworthy to even sign a loan for a kid, and there is no money to spare, you take what you can afford. If you are accepted and can pay, regardless of whether it's from dad's checkbook or from the college funds, that's one thing. It's when neither are available and the other options equally dried up, a less expensive education is in order. What else can you do?
We have used comm colleges extensively in this family, and will be using them again this summer. The flexibility and cost have helped us out a lot. I am well aware of the drawbacks of these colleges, but sometimes they are the best alternative, and the cost component is the big plus. </p>

<p>I don't see where I have said poor people are dumb. But I can tell you that just about every study in education comes up with a corelation between income and high performance in schools. Many of those who have done those studies are not high income folk. It is a staple of educational fact. In my experience, however, I have tended to live around a lot of people who have little in the way of assets or income; they are poor in that respect, but they are well educated and so are their kids. Many are graduates of great colleges, even graduate programs, are highly intelligent, but have chosen to live a life where they are not working for the almighty buck. They have raised their children to be well educated and cultured, having provided opportunities and lesson that are equal or better than those families of much higher incomes. Many of their kids will go on to top schools and will shatter those income/achievement stats validity in applying those numbers to them, with their stellar performance. If they have such kids, that is well and good in terms of college. With low EFCs and high academic performance, they will do well. But if they have a child, and many do, who are lower achieving, that becomes a problem. They cannot stick their kid in an expensive LAC with tiny classes, nurturing professors and a support system in place, because they do not have the money or credit, and such school are not likely to cough up much money, if any for someone who is not going to bring up the school stats. The same kid in a family with money would have that sort of choice. So where should such a kid go, if he is ready for college, wants to give it a try, but is not going to get full aid, or merit money? If I did not suggest comm college, I would be remiss. And that is, indeed, where most of such kids do go.</p>

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<p>"Northstarmom your logic seems paradoxical. You claim that poorer students are subjected to "poorer" education standards and ultimately suffer intellectually as a result, and yet you encourage these "poorer" students to attend community colleges, which probably house the worst of all teachers...I would know I took audit classes at one."</p>

<p>Actually, I think that most community colleges have better teachers than do most 4-year colleges, inculding many that are among the nation's top ranked colleges. Why? People get community college jobs because they like to teach undergraduates, not because they're interested in doing research, becoming famous or working with graduate students. Universities hire professors based on the professors' research ability and ability to bring in grant money, not their ability to teach.</p>

<p>Some of the most dedicated teachers whom I know teach at community colleges. They love teaching. They love students. They love making a difference by opening students' minds. They also love their subjects and are very informed on them.</p>

<p>When I was in college, I had a full professor who literally showed up in class and did the same lecture every class. It was a virtually incomprehensible lecture that he accompanied with illegible scribbles on the board. One time, he showed up and was drinking right out of a cough bottle and told the class that it contained rum for his cold.</p>

<p>Years after I graduated, I read in a magazine that the professor -- after making a pass at a student-- was sent to alcohol rehabilitation. </p>

<p>The college? Harvard.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, where I live the public 4-year colleges have classes so big that sometimes students are overflowing out of the room. As many as 200 students may be in a class. At my state flagship, students often take their classes via TV.</p>

<p>At the local community college, however, classes are small, typically, from what I hear, around 20 students.</p>

96

<p>Would you say that all your professors at Harvard were of equal caliber to the man that evidently had problems? Also, would you state that professors at M.I.T. or Cal Tech are not as competent as those at community colleges? I have quite a few friends at Harvard and yet they paint quite a different picture. I'm also quite sure they would have no problem transferring to another school or finding a job when they graduate. Can you admit the same for a student attending a community college (of course their main purpose is too learn, but we all need to eat)? Also, your view of community colleges must be skewed or you must fortunately have visited some of the best in the country. I attended one for audit classes because I'm taking a gap year due to graduating early and I was generally the only student to complete my assignments; I was one of the few that actually cared. My English teacher did not know that a rhetorical device was and thought that Europe does not have much to offer and concurred with a student that "Mexicans are not people". My computer science teacher, although very bright, spoke with a very thick and distracting accent and handed out A's.</p>

97

<p>It was also rather vexating to see other students fumble at metaphors, symbols, and the overall meaning of a novel and not have the teacher attempt (if she knew) to explain.</p>

98

<p>Indeed, it may matter what classes you take in community college or in any college for that matter. I have not taken classes at my local community college, but have taken classes for fun at my local 2nd tier 4-year college. I also taught at a local 2nd/3rd tier public college. I saw good and bad teachers and students at all types of those colleges. Still, a motivated student could get an education.</p>

<p>While Harvard had professors known for excellence in their field, that didn't mean that they were good teachers. I remember being so bored in one economics class because the professor spoke in a dry monotone that I transferred to a section with a different professor. The day that I switched sections was the day that my original professor won the Nobel Prize for economics. Sure, I suppose it's nice to have bragging rights by saying that I was taught for a while by a Nobel Prize winner, but truth was, I didn't learn that much from him.</p>

<p>The best instructors that I had at Harvard were adjuncts or visiting professors who were at Harvard because of a desire to share their knowledge with undergraduates. The exception was the lectures that some of the regular professors did. Some were brilliant and fascinating. However, those were lectures given in large lecture halls. It's not as if I was up close and personal with those people. The lectures were just once a week. TAs taught the other times the courses met. Understandably, the TAs were more concerned with getting their doctorates than teaching the classes.</p>

<p>As for community colleges, if students are careful with taking classes that they can use to transfer to a 4-year university, and if they also get good grades, they can transfer to 4-year public or private universities. As I mentioned, I know lots of people who have done that and have gone on to highly paid professional careers. Indeed, the lieutenant governor of my large state started in community college and eventually graduated from a flagship state university law school.</p>

<p>I'm live in a mid sized university city and am in the Chamber of Commerce's select program for community leaders, and several of the 40 or so people in my class started at community college. This includes at least one bank vice president.</p>

<p>As for the problem that you described with a teacher's accent, that is typical in science, math and computer courses at all levels of colleges. Why? The dearth of native born Americans who major in such subjects and are good enough in those subjects to get hired to teach at the college (or even high school) level.</p>

<p>As for the idiocy that you describe your community college English teacher saying, there are people with wierd views teaching at all sorts of colleges. Remember, LSD guru Timothy Leary taught at Harvard.</p>

<p>Sometimes instructors even at major universities end up teaching some classes that they lack some background in. While it does seem extreme that an English teacher wouldn't know what a rhetorical device is, I have seen some tenured profs at 4-year colleges that lacked some basic knowledge that one would have expected them to know in their fields.</p>

<p>As for what you describe about the teacher not explaining things to students, that can happen at excellent 4-year colleges, too, particularly when the prof is more interested in their own research than in teaching.</p>

99

<p>A list of famous community college graduates and what cc they attended:</p>

<p>Pulitzer Prize winning poet Gwendolyn Brooks City Colleges of Chicago, IL</p>

<p>Benjamin Cayetano,Governor of Hawaii Los Angeles Harbor College, CAAlan Kehlet,McDonnell Douglass Vice-President,Joliet Junior College, IL</p>

<p>Wayne Watson, Chancellor, City Colleges of Chicago, Joliet Junior College, IL </p>

<p>B.R. "Bobby" Inman, retired Admiral, USN, CIA director, Tyler Junior College, TX</p>

<p>Jim Lehrer, broadcast journalist, Victoria College, TX</p>

<p>Francine Neff, U.S. Treasurer, Cottey Junior College, MO </p>

<p>Jeanne Kirkpatrick, educator, stateswoman, Stephens College, MO</p>

<p>Maxwell Taylor, Ret. Gen. (Chief of Staff), ambassador, Metropolitan Junior College, MO</p>

<p>Dick Vermeil, football coach, sportscaster, Napa Valley College, CA</p>

<p>Eileen Collins, NASA astronaut, First woman Space Shuttle Commander,
Corning Community College, NY</p>

<p>Joyce Luther Kennard, California Supreme Court of Justice
Pasadena City College, CA</p>

<p>R. Bruce Merrifield, 1985 Nobel Prize in Chemistry, Emeritus Professor of Biochemistry, Rockefeller University.Pasadena City College, CA</p>

<p>For a much longer list: <a href="http://www.oakton.edu/acad/dept/business/grads.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.oakton.edu/acad/dept/business/grads.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

100

<p>
[quote]
You claim that poorer students are subjected to "poorer" education standards and ultimately suffer intellectually as a result, and yet you encourage these "poorer" students to attend community colleges, which probably house the worst of all teachers

[/quote]
</p>

<p>THis is not necessarily tur. ONe must also keep in mind that it is not always where you start but how you finish. The one thing about community college is the fact that they have articulation agreements with state univeristies, and for the student that really does well in community college they can get transfer into private and even ivy league schools.</p>

<p>for example: Hostos Community college in the bronx has the Serrano Scholars program which is a partnership with columbia university</p>

<p><a href="http://www.serranoscholars.net/admiss_hostos.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.serranoscholars.net/admiss_hostos.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>NYU's steinhardt school of education has articulation agreements (through the community college transfer opportunity program) with every CUNY community college .</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bmcc.cuny.edu/transfercntr/articulationagreements/nyu/nyu-cctop.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bmcc.cuny.edu/transfercntr/articulationagreements/nyu/nyu-cctop.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Three of Cornell's undergraduate colleges (Agriculture and Life Sciences; Human Ecology; and Industrial and Labor have a number of articulation agreements with community colleges in the SUNY (state university of NY) and CUNY (city university of NY school) as well as some schools in california</p>

<p><a href="http://www.foothill.edu/transfer/articulation.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.foothill.edu/transfer/articulation.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>here is an article on articulation agreements</p>

<p>
[quote]
School ties that bind
Attending a two-year college with ties to your dream school can help ease the transfer process. </p>

<p>Let's say you live in Miami and want to attend Smith College in Northampton, Mass. You're in luck.</p>

<p>Smith is one of more than 60 four-year colleges and universities that partner with Miami-Dade Community College.</p>

<p>Tuition at Smith is $27,330 a year. Room and board is $9,490
Tuition at Miami-Dade Community College is $56.50 per credit for Florida residents. You could take 30 credits, roughly a year's worth of classes, for $1,695. </p>

<p>Let's say you were able to live rent-free at your parents' home while you attended MDCC, by attending MDCC for two years and then transferring to Smith you'd save $54,660 in tuition costs and $18,980 in room and board for a grand total of $73,640. </p>

<p>That's some serious money. And even if you land a fair share of grants and scholarships from Smith, there's little chance your tuition costs will dip as low as $1,600.</p>

<p>Ready to transfer your way to an elite college? You'll need to do plenty of research and a whole bunch of hard work. It's best to start early. </p>

<p>Start with a list of dream schools you'd ultimately like to graduate from. Ask about articulation agreements with two-year colleges and partnerships with other schools and universities.</p>

<p>An articulation agreement specifies which community college course credits will be accepted toward a bachelor's degree at the four-year college or university. It also specifies what kind of grades a student must achieve to transfer to the four-year school as a junior.</p>

<p>"The colleges are really good about making sure if you do what you say you're going to do those credits will transfer," Loewe says. </p>

<p>

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bankrate.com/yho/news/pf/20011212a.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bankrate.com/yho/news/pf/20011212a.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>