<p>Don't get me wrong, i'm not bitter, and my essays were probably the best part of my application. However, i think essays have no place being in the college admissions process for majors that aren't liberal arts arts, literature, or humanities. The idea that a short creative narrative can have such a huge impact on a person's future seems ludicrous to me. A student can be brilliant at math or science, but someone with worse grades can be chosen because their essay narrative or writing style was more entertaining to an adcom. This leaves all kinds of problems where you have students whose creative writing abilities give them an edge to get admitted into a major where there is no need whatsoever for creative writing skills. And to those of you who argue that it's needed to judge writing abilities, couldn't you just use their english class grade? The more i think about it, the more hilariously ridiculous it seems. Anyway, that's just my $0.02.</p>
<p>You’re looking at this wrong, gergreg: your essay is not a creative writing piece, it’s your marketing piece to get the buyers to want you. It’s your chance to prove you have common sense, that you know how to summarize and sell the best features of your “product” – which is you. It would seem to me that math and science types should have the ability to make a logical argument for why they are a better “product” than the competing ones.</p>
<p>Even scientists and engineers need to be able to communicate effectively in writing. And since English curriculums and English teachers vary in quality and in expectations, a writing sample is useful.</p>
<p>Student here:
Using English class grades wouldn’t work since standards vary wildly across teachers. The other objective metrics for measuring writing abilities (AP scores or SAT writing component) only look at how well someone can produce a first draft essay under severe time constraints. </p>
<p>But the main reason colleges use essays stems from the inherent inability of GPA + SATs to tell the whole story about an applicant. Recently, a formerly homeless senior posted that he had a lower than average GPA, but about a 2100 SAT. Without the essay, colleges would probably assume this applicant was just a slacker, but with the essay, he can elaborate on how he managed to stay in school despite not knowing where he’d sleep at night, or how he could afford food. Obviously most essays are not nearly as dramatic, but they give applicants the ability to go beyond the numbers and elaborate on their lives.</p>
<p>A high GPA is also a function of how willingly an applicant conformed to the rules in high school. Grades in high school are often based on homework, projects, quizzes, tests, etc., and getting high grades may not indicate that the person actually learned anything, merely that they completed busy work. For instance, I earned a 5 on my AP Psych test, but nearly failed the course because I only did about a quarter of the work; I studied on my own with the understanding that a 5 on the test meant an automatic A in the class. My friend earned an A in the class because she completed all of the assignments but got a 2 on the test. She did the busy work, but I “did” the learning. High school GPA rewards my friend, while college grading rewards people like myself.</p>
<p>I agree with you gergreg that essays should not really be heavily weighted for kids in majors such as computer science and math. Hopefully, they probably are not.</p>
<p>I agree that it is a huge farce, because of the huge subjectivity in assessing them, and the great potential for out and out fraud.</p>
<p>But a lot of people don’t pick their majors when they apply.</p>
<p>No. In addition to it providing another avenue to “market yourself”, it also provides the adcoms a limited means to assess basic writing skills and weigh that in the decision. </p>
<p>Something which is needed considering the surprisingly large numbers of undergrads at my and other elite colleges who struggled with basic writing skills they should have mastered in junior high/high school. It was apparent in my undergrad in the mid-late '90s from freshman year onward as a private academic tutor and in classes which required us to have our papers be examined and assessed by classmates as part of the writing process. </p>
<p>This isn’t helped by hearing from Prof/TA friends that this issue of poor writing skills among incoming undergrads has only gotten worse and getting a glimpse of it when they had me look at some examples from their classes. </p>
<p>Incidentally, the lack of demonstrated writing skills of past employees who were alums from some universities was a factor in why one former employer no longer hired applicants from those institutions.</p>
<p>I think the essay serves several purposes. It gives the applicant a chance to give circumstances that may not be apparent in the application. It gives them a chance to show that they can write. It allows them to become a person instead of a number. If they only have the grades and SAT’s how do they choose between everyone who has similar numbers? There’s got to be something extra to allow them to make some difficult decisions.</p>
<p>Gergreg: you’re under the mistaken impression that one with top grade potential even NEEDS to write an essay. Thousands of great US colleges will admit these superstars without one word typed/written into an essay.</p>
<p>Now if these superlative students want to vie for a seat in colleges that are more selective, they need to play by their rules. For those colleges, the essay is not a determinant to find applicants who are “brilliant at math or science” – that will be done thru the transcript/test scores and rec letters. Their (nice) problem is that these are in surplus.</p>
<p>Thus they want kids who are “brilliant at math or science” but can also express themselves thoughtfully in a personal statement or two.</p>
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<p>Clemson doesn’t require an essay. When I sat in on the info session with S’11, I was surprised to hear them say they do not require an essay at all. </p>
<p>Is there too much hype about the essay? Probably. Can a solid piece of clean writing let an admissions person know something about you they couldn’t get from reviewing your transcript and test scores? Absolutely.</p>
<p>Complete farce, in my opinion. </p>
<p>All it tells the colleges is whether or not you know someone who is a good editor.</p>
<p>Having dealt with those people who are brilliant at math or science who are unable to communicate effectively, I see a great need for the essays. The essays predate the change to the SAT to include a writing section, but still fill the same purpose. And the SAT and ACT writing sections don’t really give them a good idea of how well you communicate, because you have no choice in the topic. In real life, various choices you make will dictate what you write about, so you have choices on your college applications.</p>
<p>Perhaps if you look at the curriculum at various colleges, you will note that they see writing and communication as important to your education. As already noted, there are plenty of colleges where you can apply without an essay - some, like many for-profits, don’t care about your writing ability, because you attend for a very specific credential, but others, like many community colleges, will make you take a writing assessment once you enroll. But look at the requirements of places like MIT. Do you think they want to use their resources to run remedial writing classes? Does it do them any good to graduate genius scientists, if they can’t communicate their findings with the rest of the world? Even if you’re not a great communicator, the skills learning to write also apply to other fields - if you can’t organize your thoughts to write a short application essay, are you going to be able to organize your thoughts to run a complicated experiment in the lab?</p>
<p>OP, my guess is you don’t like writing. But if you’re complaining about all the essays, I’m also going to guess you applied to several schools requiring supplemental essays. If you feel this way about writing, you may find yourself surprised by the amount and quality of writing that will be expected of you when you attend one of those schools. Scientists and engineers don’t just to problem sets all day, either in college or on the job. As an engineer in the real world, you write reports and proposals that have to meet the approval of people with little or no engineering background.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s a complete farce but I do think its definitely overplayed…meaning other parts of ur application such as tests scores and grades and teacher recs are a lot more important on ur application</p>
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and
Completely agree with both of these posters. Despite the justification attempts by those whose snowflakes had college consultants/essay consultants/teachers steer towards topics/edit/maybe even write the essays (all the while maintaining Snowflake’s “voice” was still there and that the consultant/teacher only “proofread”), there is way too much involvement by others in these supposedly applicant-generated essays.</p>
<p>What makes you think they are looking for the same type of writing from a prospective English major as the student that applies to Engineering? Some schools my son applied to had totally different prompts as an Engineering applicant in the supplement. It’s obviously tailored to pick the brain of e’school hopefuls in a way that humanities majors are not evaluated. The trick is to keep your ‘voice’ and not let the essay become a ‘report’, which is the inclination of many math/science related kids. I do entirely agree that STEM majors have to be able to communicate in the world around them as well, so they shouldn’t be exempt while their humanities counterparts prove their competency.</p>
<p>As previously stated, many don’t require essays at all, or only require essays if you are interested in the Honors College. If you don’t want to play the game, choose a school that doesn’t require them.</p>
<p>Yes, CTTC. I thought this was going to be about essays heavily written by parents or consultants.</p>
<p>I can think of several students who got into programs (liberal arts, even creative writing majors) who would NOT have gotten in without the serious involvement of others in their essays. This is a more serious example of fraud than STEM majors getting help in their essays. A computer science guy who doesn’t write (English) well can always get a job (admittedly with a glass ceiling) doing what he does best. A person who is majoring in a writing-heavy area is going to be up the proverbial creek, even if they manage to get the degree.</p>
<p>While I don’t think the essay’s are a complete farce, I do think some of the prompts are a little weird. </p>
<p>On two different applications last year my D had the question, “how can you bring diversity to our University”? Not an easy question for a middle class, blond haired, female to answer.</p>
<p>rushedmom–diversity is more than looks and socio-economic status. I think the question invites the applicant to share how they are DIFFERENT from all the other middle-class, blond haired female applicants. Hobbies? Extracurriculars? Career plans?</p>
<p>People need the ability to write in work place, in research, in job application. But I don’t see any resemblance between those kinds of writing and the college essay.</p>