<p>Sylvan,
D made changes to her common app last year, and sent them out successfully. You can only make changes to the CA and send out version #2 for schools that you have NOT ALREADY SUBMITTED your app yet. Thus, each school is still only getting 1 app. For schools that you have ALREADY SUBMITTED YOUR APP, you cannot make any changes electronically; changes can only be made by mail and it will likely get confusing for the school; thus it’s not worth making corrections on apps that have been already submitted.</p>
<p>I didn’t double check the specific steps by CTscoutmom, but they sound correct. There are instructions how to do it on the Common App website; it’s buried deep and confusing, but you will find it if you keep looking. How to make the changes is NOT intuitive; you will need to actually find the directions and follow them in detail, and the directions are a bit confusing. .</p>
<p><a href=“%5Bb%5Dpost#57%5B/b%5D”>quote=LoremIpsum</a> A professor at MIT showed that SAT/ACT essay scores were almost 100% correlated to length – to the point that he could correctly guess the score 3/4ths of the time from across the room. Very good students – many with writing awards – do poorly on these essays: if your kid is a slow but meticulous writer, has poor handwriting or is just concise and to the point rather than throwing the kitchen sink at the prompt, he or she will generally fare much worse than you would expect.
[/quote]
Did you mean to imply that 3/4ths of the 11-12 writing scores (top 1% or even less) are simply a product of content-free speed-writing? May be not. But, MIT prof no less, I was duely impressed! I googled because I was not aware before, and it brought-up this article <a href=“SAT Essay Test Rewards Length and Ignores Errors - The New York Times”>SAT Essay Test Rewards Length and Ignores Errors - The New York Times; Dr. Les Perelman makes some valid observations, but turns out it is not a scientific study. Perhaps there was a follow-up research, given the said prof’s doctoral work and job descriptions from NYT article -undergraduate writing & freshman assessments. It is also logical to assume that Dr. Perelman should have had discernible influence at least over MIT admissions, but apparently not, given what MIT makes available to prospective applicants: [Admissions</a> Statistics | MIT Admissions](<a href=“http://mitadmissions.org/apply/process/stats]Admissions”>Admissions statistics | MIT Admissions). Of particular note, unlike most other elite schools, MIT even has special table at the end for Distribution of ACT Scores (Writing). MIT brand notwithstanding, I am not so impressed anymore!</p>
<p>Remember that writing scores of 11-12 are just as difficult to get (if not harder) as ACT 35-36 composites. I suspect that there is a good correlation between these two groups (even the MIT score distribution tables suggest this). Personally I am more impressed with SAT2400 than SAT-CR1600. On a similar vein, I am more impressed with ACT35-36/W11-12 than a ACT36/W<10 or ACT36/no-writing-score.</p>
<p>On a personal note, my D is a southpaw who writes with her left-hand in one of these extreme postures where your writing hand covers up most of what is written; she finds it nearly impossible to write on student-chairs specifically designed for right-handers. We always requested left-hander accommodations without any benefit, D had no choice but to accept right-hander-chairs, but still managed to score a writing score of 11 every single time. It is not whining or boasting, just saying that current ACT/SAT testing conditions can suck for many. These days, Medical boards exams and such utilize computers at nicer private facilities. May be there is some hope for south-paws.</p>
<p>Final point: Colleges do not have to take these high-writing scores blindly or in a vacuum. Within the same folder, Adcoms have access to SAT/ACT total/composite and all sub-scores, English grades from transcript, optional SAT-ii subject scores, optional AP Lit/Lang scores. When in doubt, there is always the back-stop of downloading the actual essay in question for review - not any different for suspect personal essays. The context is holistic admissions for evaluating HS students for UG admissions, not the Robertson/Morehead-Cain/Jefferson/etc scholarship committee deliberations, where personal essays have a profound meaning and significance. I am not saying essays are a farce as suggested by the OP, but I would once gain contend that you don’t need multitude of supplemental personal essays to determine acceptable writing standards.</p>
This is what I think as well, and I think an essay written by a 17-year-old is a slender reed upon which to rest this kind of evaluation, especially since you really can’t tell who wrote it.</p>
<p>Modadunn, I have no idea who, or which post you’re railing against. Surely you’d agree that there are times when help is appropriate, and times when it isn’t. We may not all agree on how to precisely delineate those situations. In general, when a student is learning the material and doing the practice exercises, the teacher should be available to assist. On the day of the exam, however, the student needs to work alone to show what he knows. </p>
<p>Similarly, the student has 12 years of elementary and secondary education to prepare him for college, and 12 years of English classes to teach him to write. During that time he is free to ask for assistance at the appropriate times. Given that the college or university is seeking to evaluate the student, not his English teacher or mother, the kid needs to write his own application essay. It’s not honest any other way. We might dispute how much proof reading and editing, if any, is acceptable, but the student should do the lion’s share of the work. Since the top schools are the ones who care most about the essays, IMO if the student (assuming no disability) can’t write a passable, error-free essay on his own, he’s not a good candidate for HYPS anyway.</p>
<p>Parents and tutors help many students, sometimes in good ways and sometimes not. But at the end of the day the kid has to take the test in school alone, do the in-class timed writing by himself, and sit for the SAT’s without tutor or parent. But the application essay can be completely written by someone other than the student and there are no safeguards against it, especially since the schools claim not to look at the SAT writing score much. Indeed, I have heard plenty of parents admit to single-handedly writing their kids’ college essays, or hiring people to do so for their son or daughter. That is what we’re protesting. It has nothing to do with believing our kids are all that. I have a disabled daughter with lots of academic weaknesses. I would do her a big disservice to over-help her on applications, thereby enabling her to go on to fail royally at a college she can’t hack.</p>
<p>While I agree with some of what has been posted, it may help to know that essay readers are very well aware of the fact that some students get lots of help and others get none.</p>
<p>While they are going to be aware of structure, syntax and writing style, the primary focus is on the chance for the student to show who he or she is and/or to reveal something about him or herself that is not already on the application. They are also looking for critical thinking skills - how the person thinks and reacts to events, experiences, setbacks or ideas.</p>
<p>I’m sure adcoms take this into consideration and don’t make their final decisions based on the sophistication of the writing. Rather, I think they use it to determine the personality of the writer and whether that student would be a good fit for the school. The essay is a sales job in the sense that it’s much easier to reject a number than someone you can visualize as being a real person. Using the essay to make that connection is the first step to getting your local rep to advocate on your behalf in front of the committee.</p>
<p>^But again, I question how the admissions committee actually makes these assessments about essays. How does an adcom, who has very limited knowledge of an applicant’s life or past experiences, fairly evaluate what is or is not an appropriate level of critical thinking for that student, about that particular topic, and at that juncture of his life? As discussed in the math and MIT thread, is it the student’s fault if he’s been well-parented, well-cared for, and hasn’t had any major tragedies or obstacles to overcome that might provide the mature perspective the adcoms might desire? Is there a rubric for evaluating the essays? Using what standards or scale does an adcom determine what is an admirable, intelligent reaction to an event or experience? Does it come down to whether the adcom shares the same philosophical biases as the student? By what criteria does he determine that student X is interesting, rather than “textureless,” (a word CCers like to use to describe the high-stat applicants they suspect of being boring drones) or that he possesses any other intangible trait they’re selecting for?</p>
<p>I think it’s presumptuous, and agree with Hunt calling it a “slender reed.”</p>
<p>Fairly evaluate? Probably not – people have their biases, pro and con, which will likely influence their decisions. The saving grace is that each app gets multiple readers and almost all students apply to multiple schools, so hopefully each student will find a kindred spirit ready to advocate on his or her behalf in front of one or more committees.</p>
<p>It should also be remembered that the essay is only the bow-tie to pull the package together; if the stats, the ECs, and the letters of recommendation are stellar, the essay packaging may not matter at all. In a borderline case, however, the essays could help explain certain potential red-flag issues in context and diffuse the concern.</p>
<p>QuantMec, I really like your post. Here is something I wrote and did not submit:</p>
<p>"I am firmly against essays having weight on admission for two reasons:</p>
<p>1- If SATs and school performance are correlated with income, essays much more. Rich people can hire whoever they want to write their essays and there is no way Adcom can know. At least for the Standard Tests even if you hire tutors, still it is you who is taking the test. Well, we know that some people even hire “hired guns” to take the SAT/ACT for them, but everyone would agree that this is much more difficult to do then to find an editor. </p>
<p>2- The evaluation of essays by Adcoms are incredible subjective. Recalling a journalistic coverage of Amherst’s admission, an essay was impressive because the applicant wrote about a taste of Chicken McNuggets and this was funny. If someone writes about a true academic accomplishment this is less benefitial in terms of admissions because it may become a bit dry and not funny."</p>
<p>“This is what I think as well, and I think an essay written by a 17-year-old is a slender reed upon which to rest this kind of evaluation, especially since you really can’t tell who wrote it.”</p>
<p>With ya on this one Hunt. How many of these “essays” are actually written solely by the student and of those how many are full of falsehoods (i.e. a tragic upbringing, etc…)? The only way I would ever put any weight on an essay is if it were written right in front of me and I had the opportunity to interview/grill the student regarding it’s content (just like I would with an employment application; amazing how many people lie…).</p>
<p>Impersonal, you are spot on. Unfortunately, I’m betting many of the schools doing “holistic” admissions bite on the “creative” or “tragic” essays hook, line and sinker.</p>
<p>tetra, your statement, “This score typically gives you a good idea at how many hours/how much money has been spent on training the student for the SAT” rang hollow with me since my son did not take any classes but scored very high (760) on the written portion of the SAT. What does it say about him, well, he’s not a super creative writer but does know how to right a coherent essay with few if any punctuation errors. Since he’s a math/science guy I was quite proud of him knowing that this wasn’t his gig. So, to make a generalization that the scores mean nothing, tells me you (or your son/daughter) didn’t do well on that portion of the SAT; correct? Sour grapes…</p>
<p>As a few commenters have already pointed out, the SAT’s…or for that matter, the GRE’s writing section’s ability to measure writing skills, especially those needed to succeed in college/grad school is dubious. </p>
<p>I read the same study in which the researcher found a positive correlation between length of essay and high scores. This tends to favor students just as/more likely to favor those who are great at fluffing up something so one sentence can turn into 5-10+ fluffy pages of little substance as students who are good at coming up with ideas, examples, and explanations on the fly within the constrained time limits. </p>
<p>And I say this as someone who’s good at both. </p>
<p>However, the former type of student is not the type most Profs…especially English/writing instructors would consider to be “good writers” in any sense of the word.<br>
From what I’ve seen, those are the type of students who usually end up with C at best in college…and a D/F or a mandated “Redo from scratch” with my HS teachers. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The admission essay is meant to expand beyond one’s academic record as the adcoms can always refer to the transcript, board scores, and GC report. </p>
<p>It is also a good way for selective colleges…especially small private ones to choose those with the best fit or those who are comfortable/could tolerate being the tiny minority civilly due to that lack of fit for both the college community’s and the applicant’s own sake. </p>
<p>For instance, a radical left neo-Marxist looking to start a latter-day lefty type revolution/political protest movement who’s not into outdoor activities may not be happy at Dartmouth even if he/she has the academic/board score bona-fides to get in. </p>
<p>Likewise, a right-leaning conservative/libertarian looking to be the next member of the Forbes 400, wall street titan, or a hard charging corporate warrior for the fortune 500 who loves Div I sports and fraternities/sororities is very likely to be miserable at schools like Reed or Oberlin. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>By that standard, the resume and/or cover letter should be tossed as tools for the employers to assess potential applicants for jobs/career paths.</p>
<p>Cobrat, your statement, “By that standard, the resume and/or cover letter should be tossed as tools for the employers to assess potential applicants for jobs/career paths” is correct regarding the cover letter, not the resume (i.e. the equivalent of the college ap/high school transcripts). Not sure if you’ve ever had to hire anyone, but as the owner of a business I’m guessing I’ve seen more cover letters and resumes in my lifetime than most people. A cover letter, like an essay, is simply fluff. Sit that person down in front of you and you can soon discover that both the cover letter and the resume is inflated. Not sure why the same wouldn’t be true of an essay, which may or may not have even been written by the applicant. So, not sure what your real life experience is, but I know what mine is and I would take an essay with a grain of salt; it doesn’t mean jack until you can sit down and query the individual with regards to their person.</p>
<p>I may not have done hiring, but I have come across plenty of resumes due to HR/supervisors asking me for my input regarding potential candidates to join our group and know many friends/older relatives who have done plenty of hiring because they own businesses or are the hiring managers of their department. </p>
<p>Unlike college applications/HS transcripts, the ratio of control an individual job applicant has over what goes into the resume or not and/or to what degree it’s embellished is far greater than what HS students applying to colleges have over their college ap/HS transcripts. </p>
<p>Transcripts are almost completely within the control of the HS issuing them and the teachers grading them. With college applications, it’s a wash as aspects like the GC report, transcripts, board scores, and recommendations are almost/nearly completely out of the student’s control beyond some limited defined time/opportunity windows. </p>
<p>It’s not the same as the resume in which the applicant has near complete control as to what to include/leave out, to what degree to embellish positions/accomplishments or not, and more. Even with background checks, there’s a disturbing number of job applicants who embellished or completely fabricated their educational background*, job description/accomplishments, and more. </p>
<ul>
<li>I.e.: Yahoo CEO Thompson fabricating an educational background in CS when it was actually in marketing, various folks fabricating/exaggerating veteran status in the military services, a NYC official who lied about having an MD when he may not have even graduated from college in the early '80s, a few applicants who fabricated educational background/job experiences who were turned away by friends/older relatives before the interview stage, and one fabricator who completely lied about being a CS programming guru and an IIT graduate on his resume and was found out within 2 days of hire thanks to yours truly and other team members who grew suspicious about his cluenessness about basic computer skills.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>Regarding the last…turns out he knew practically nothing about computers and never graduated from college. So much for being an IIT graduate or an experienced CS guru.</p>
<p>Cobrat,
I think you are undermining your own argument.
The point of the thread is “Does anyone else think college essays are a huge farce?”. As you state, it is much more difficult to fake transcripts. I also think that it is much more difficult to fake standart tests (i.e., hire a professional SAT/ACT test taker) than it is to fake an essay (i.e., hire a professional editor from Cragislist or come up with a life event that never happened).</p>
<p>Merely pointing out that employers also rely on tools like resumes/cover letters which mostly rely on the “honor system” much like writing a college application essay. </p>
<p>Moreover, this line of argument implies that the vast majority of job applicants or students applying to college are so devoid of honor and integrity that they cannot be trusted to be even somewhat honest about their resume/cover letters or their college application essays. </p>
<p>Something which I don’t believe is the case for the vast majority. It is even borne out in my examples as those were a tiny minority of the overall applicant pool that I, my supervisors, and friends/older relatives experienced as troubling as those few examples are as even one example is one too many. </p>
<p>Considering the seemingly widespread assumption among some CCers here that “ghostwritten” college applications/essays are commonplace, there’s a part of me which wonders if that perception says more about its holders than the actual reality.</p>
<p>Do you realize the cover letter = bull does not imply essay = good? To me it says essay = bull as well.</p>
<p>Regardless of what you wonder, the reality is that there are some services out there that range from editing to complete application packaging. Just google Michele Hernandez.</p>
<p>People post on CC that there is a positive correlation between wealth and SATs and also between wealth and performance in elementary education. While I agree that this is positive correlation is true, methinks that the correlation between wealth and the access to editors or private counselors is higher than that between wealth and SAT/ACT performance or GPA performance. Do I have data to back this off? No, just common sense.</p>
<p>Also, despite your “wonderings” about what arguments put forward by CC posters say about them, I do not backpedal from my assertion (assumption) that it is much easier to buy an essay and/or “packaging” from some private counselor than to buy standard tests and GPA scores. Therefore, the reliance on essays disproportionally favors wealthy people.</p>
<p>My perspective on this comes from being someone who grew up in a low-income household who completed his college apps and required essays without any assistance beyond kindly asking an English teacher to proof it for overlooked minor editorial or tone issues. </p>
<p>Especially considering if my memory serves correctly, I completed both essays within a matter of a few hours in school*…including proofing by said teacher due to the time constraints of my HS’s academic workload, commute schedule, and an emergency situation which came up,…my getting in must have been a miracle in your eyes. </p>
<p>Then again, I didn’t regard most of the college essays I wrote as being particularly arduous writing assignments. And I don’t regard myself as a particularly notable writer…especially in the creative writing sense. </p>
<ul>
<li>Wrote it out using paper & pen and then typed it up on a gifted PC and printed it out for mailing out the following day.</li>
</ul>
<p>^Again, it seems you are giving more strength to my argument.</p>
<p>You did not have financial resoureces, and you had to produce the essay yourself, with minimal assistance. Meanwhile, some other more fortunate folks were aided by professional editors and private admission counselors.</p>
<p>I think the advantage of having professional counselors is not to help make the essay well-written, it’s to make it so that it resonates with the value system and speaking style of the people reading it. These are not the same.</p>