<p>I am planning to major in chemistry or chemical biology. Do UC-Berkeley courses for these majors give curves? If so, how much or how frequently?
Besides, do professors curve other courses as well?</p>
<p>For science/engineering I would say that practically all classes are curved. It's difficult to find a science/engineering class that isn't curved. </p>
<p>Generally, the more quantitative a class is, the more likely a class will be curved.</p>
<p>dont forget about math either</p>
<p>yes, grades are curved, and with few departments, there is no grade inflation</p>
<p>cool0215 - Keep in mind that curves aren't necessarily a bad thing. Unlike in high school, the average test scores in a typical engineering/science/math class hovers between 55% - 70% (from my experience). This typically works out to such that if you have 80% - 85% +, you get an A, 70% - 80% a B, and 50% - 70% a C... </p>
<p>If you do bad on a test, but everyone else in the class also does bad, that works to YOUR advantage. If you do bad, but everyone else does well, that sucks for you, but typically there's a good distribution and it's hard to get a D or F. Also, if you do well and everyone else does bad (i.e. average is 40% and you get an 85%), you get a big fat A+ (not just an A).</p>
<p>So, Berkeley's grading system have an A+? wow...</p>
<p>yeah, but you don't get extra grade points for the A+. </p>
<p>Khan - one thing to remember is that UCB, like many state schools, grades on a C/C+ curve, unlike Stanford and Harvard which grade on a B/B+ curve.</p>
<p>I would break it down even further. Technical classes tend to be curved around a much lower letter-grade than are non-technical classes. I still have yet to find a good reason as to why that is the case, but it is the case. There are quite a few majors at Berkeley, which I shall not name, where you can get very high grades while doing very little work at all, and in many cases, while barely even showing up. </p>
<p>One other thing to point out is that grade-curving tends to produce quite arbitrary grading. Your letter grade is no longer based just on what you know. Instead, it is not based on what you know relative to what everybody else knows. You can know a lot and still fail. You can know very little and still get an A. I know one guy who got a 30% on an exam, and celebrated. Why? Because the average test score was a 25%, so he got an A. He knew almost nothing about the material - but he knew more than the average person in the class, so that was worth an A despite the fact that he knew almost nothing. I know another person who got an F for getting an 84%, because the average test score was 95%. He knew most of the material and still failed.</p>
<p>bluebayou - what do u mean by C/C+ and B/B+ curve?</p>
<p>sakky - technical classes...you mean just engineering courses? what about chemistry and bio. courses?</p>
<p>To Sakky
Another thing: What are the majors in which you can get very high grades while doing very little work? Could you name them please? I WILL NOT TELL THEM TO ANYONE IN THE NAME OF GOD's WILL. I would appreciate it so much if you send them to me by private messege or email.</p>
<p>"bluebayou - what do u mean by C/C+ and B/B+ curve?"</p>
<p>this means that the average score, or the mean, will be a c/c+ or b/b+</p>
<p>think normal distribution curve for the quantitative classes....</p>
<p>Cool0215, if you go to Berkeley, you will find out those majors soon enough. They are notorious for being a dumping ground for varsity football and basketball players who are not really majoring in anything, but are actually "majoring in eligibility" - gotta get certain grades to keep themselves eligible to play ball, so a lot of them go around taking the easiest possible classes. </p>
<p>I don't think I'm giving away any major secrets when I say that any major with the word "Studies" in its name is almost certainly a joke major. I don't want to be overly harsh, but I find it rather ironic that all these majors with the word "Studies" in its name are filled with lots of students who hardly ever study. Those majors should be called "Non-studies". [For those students who may be majoring in such majors, I know that was harsh, but come on, you know in your heart that I'm saying the truth. You gotta admit that you can get quite good grades in your classes while doing very little work relative to what other students on campus are experiencing.]</p>
<p>Furthermore, any major that just sounds like bulls*** probably is. You just read the name of the major and you should be able to tell that certain majors are not the most difficult in the world. </p>
<p>Now let me be fair and say this. There are some students who really are interested in these majors and really want to delve into it. They are majoring in those subjects because they are genuinely interested in the material. The problem is that there are also a lot of other students in those majors who are there primarily because the classes are easy and give out lots of high grades for very little work. Let's face it. A lot of students just don't want to study hard, and so they search out easy classes in easy majors and just cruise through college getting good grades while barely lifting a finger. </p>
<p>As far as chemistry and biology classes, it depends. Intro chem classes are often times weeders and thus can be very difficult. In essence, any class that historically attracts lots and lots of premeds are going to be ridiculously difficult. These are classes where you can work like a dog and still get an F because of the harshness of the curve.</p>
<p>hwtf,
Why are private schools(like Harvard and Stanford you mentioned) more generous than UCB and state schools about giving curved grades?</p>
<p>Harvard, Stanford and Princeton have always been much easier graders, but if you review the local Princeton press, the Pres wants to change that policy. Heck, a friend of mine who went to Harvard said that nearly 70% of the class graduates with honors.</p>
<p>To cool0215's question, I wouldn't say that all private schools are always more generous than state schools. Case in point, there is a certain school in Pasadena, and there is another certain school in Cambridge,MA which are both private and yet I think nobody would dispute that they grade far more harshly than any state school. </p>
<p>However, to elaborate on why public schools like UCB grade harsher than schools like HYPS, I believe the answer is prestige. Berkeley has a big name, not as big as HYPS, but still pretty big. On the other hand, let's face it, it's a lot easier to get in to the Berkeley undergraduate program than the undergrad programs at HYPS. And there are a lot of undergrads at Berkeley who, quite honestly, really aren't that good. Berkeley would have difficulty keeping up its big name if it consistently bestowed degrees upon students who aren't that good. The way that Berkeley squares this circle of maintaining its big name while still maintaining a relatively easier admissions process is to simply flunk out a significant portion of its students. An undergrad at HYPS is pretty much assured of graduating as long as he does the work, but there is no such assurance for the Berkeley undergrad. Flunking out is a perennial danger. </p>
<p>Contrast that with how Berkeley runs its graduate programs, particularly its PhD programs. It is extremely difficult to get admitted into a Berkeley PhD program, just as hard as getting admitted to the PhD programs at HYPS. And you don't see the spectacle of seeing a disproportionate number of Berkeley graduate students getting academically expelled every year the way that they do with the undergrads. If you get into a Berkeley PhD program, you are pretty much assured of getting at least a master's degree (the same way that if you get into a PhD program at HYPS, you are also basically assured of at least a master's degree). The reason that Berkeley can provide this assurance to its PhD students is that it's very difficult to get into the PhD program in the first place. Hence, the root cause of the lower Berkeley undergraduate grading scheme is the relatively easier undergraduate admissions process.</p>
<p>Now obviously there are other factors involved as to why certain schools grade harder than others, particularly cultural ones. For example,for some reason, tech/science programs always seem to grade harder than non-tech programs, so if most of your students at your school are majoring in tech (like what happens at MIT), then your school will be known for hard grading. But putting aside these cultural factors, the point is that there is a definite tradeoff between easier admissions and harder grading.</p>
<p>All schools in the country know about Berkeley's harsh grading policy.</p>
<p>The dean of a graduate program told me himself that he views a 3.0 GPA from UC Berkeley better than how he views a 3.5 from a private school. </p>
<p>The education to be had at Berkeley is top notch. There is so much to be said to know that you are learning from the best professors in the world, in almost every discipline imaginable. Its quite amazing really.</p>
<p>If all schools 'know' about the harsh grading policy, then why do, for example, med-schools require such high GPA's from Berkeley premeds before they will admit them? Why do law-schools require such high GPA's from Berkeley prelaws before they will admit them? Take UCBerkeley's own law school, Boalt. In 2003, the average admitted Berkeley prelaw into Boalt had a GPA of 3.81. The average admitted Yale prelaw into Boalt had a GPA of 3.73. So Boalt is admitting Yalie prelaws with LOWER gpa's than Berkeley prelaws despite the fact that, first of all, it's complete home-field advantage for Berkeley (Boalt is Berkeley's own law school, after all), secondly, by law, Boalt is required to give admissions preference to California state residents (and far more Berkeley prelaws than Yale prelaws will be state residents), and thirdly, Yale grades easier than Berkeley. Yet despite all this, Boalt still requires that Berkeley prelaws present a higher average gpa. You must admit, that doesn't exactly support your contention that "all schools in the country know about Berkeley's harsh grading policy". </p>