Does GC's advice make sense? Send apps after 1st semester senior year?!

Parents Forum
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<p>My son and I would love the (mostly) sensible advice we have come to count on on CC.</p>

<p>Here's the story: S starts school tomorrow, so I guess that makes him officially a senior. He has written the essay and pretty much completed the Common App for those schools that use it. He emailed his Guidance Counselor to ask a couple of questions. Part of her response had to do with strongly encouraging him to hold off on applying early at all (not ED, which he's not doing, but sending in apps early to schools that have Rolling Admissions).</p>

<p>Her reason for having him wait is so that he can finish the first half of senior year with a higher GPA and then apply. As it stands, his unweighted is 3.01 and weighted is 3.09. He did horribly in freshman year, but has an impressive upward trajectory (for a B student, that is -- all of the A plus plus folks are welcome to stop reading at this point, as I fear you might not "get" it). His end of junior year GPA was a 3.86.</p>

<p>My son and I are both concerned that waiting until late January is simply cruel and unusual punishment and may jeopardize his chances not only of acceptance, but also for housing. Even if he got a 4.0 first semester (which he won't), it would only very slightly raise his cumulative GPA and may well cause a nervous breakdown (make that two -- him AND me). My gut is that he should send out his apps over the course of the next few weeks rather than in early 2011 and then focus on doing well in his classes. Can't he send a updated transcript to colleges in January?</p>

<p>What would you advise? Thanks!</p>

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<p>rolling schools please and ACT/SAT score? </p>

<p>fwiw, we have heard the exact opposite advice and my daugher’s GPA is in line with your son’s</p>

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<p>I’m no expert, but my advice is to get a rolling admit or two under your belt. Does wonders for the morale and is a known nervous breakdown preventative.</p>

<p>You don’t want to tick off the GC, however. Thank her for her thoughtful advice – I do see her point – and ask if she can point out his upward trajectory in her LOR, including that impressive junior year GPA, and how she has faith that will continue senior year.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>Here’s the deal…</p>

<p>Rolling admissions schools are usually MORE lenient with students who apply EARLY. They will often accept students with lower GPAs or lower test scores if they apply early. Those who apply later who have lower stats are often rejected.</p>

<p>Also, scholarships are often given to those who apply early or by a certain deadline…often Nov 15, Dec 1, Dec 15, Dec 31 (depending on the school). </p>

<p>Can’t he send a updated transcript to colleges in January?</p>

<p>Absolutely! And some schools will withhold acceptance until those grades are received, but that’s ok. Some will just go ahead and accept him.</p>

<p>What schools will he be applying to?</p>

<p>What are his test scores?</p>

<p>Is cost a factor or is money no object?</p>

<p>What is his likely major?</p>

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<p>I just noticed that you’re from Ventura County. In Calif or somewhere else? The Calif publics have EARLY deadlines. I think the CSUs have a Nov 30 deadline and the UCs also have an early deadline.</p>

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<p>The advice to wait with rolling admissions schools makes no sense to me. He will have a much better chance if he applies very early to those.</p>

<p>I do agree that you don’t want to tick off the GC… Tell her that you can’t handle the wait, and will apply early, but you appreciate her opinion and support.</p>

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<p>You people are MY people. Thanks for your quick and insightful responses. So helpful.</p>

<p>Yes, the UCs and CSUs have their own deadlines. His California reach will be UC Santa Cruz. Safeties are SFSU and Sonoma State.
Rolling, west to east: Seattle University, U of Oregon, De Paul, SUNY Purchase, possibly Pace and Adelphia.</p>

<p>What are his test scores? 1730 SAT and will retake ACT on 9/11</p>

<p>Is cost a factor or is money no object? Cost is definitely a significant factor. BTW, I teach at CSUN, so he’d get a nice tuition break at SFSU or Sonoma State… but, despite my nagging, subliminal noctural mutterings, and so forth, he deosn’t love his safeties like he loves the idea of being in or near New York City or, perhaps, Chicago…</p>

<p>What is his likely major? He took a community college course this summer in International Relations and found it fascinating. He has since discovered that that’s a possible major, or else Global Studies, or something like that. He’s strong critical thinker and good writer. Got a 4 on APUSH exam last semester, so that’s his leaning. Ix-nay on the Ath-may.</p>

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<p>As the previous poster stated - if he plans to apply to the UCs or CSUs he needs to apply well before then to be considered. It’s usually the end of November for the UCs. I think it’s currently the same for the CSUs but check on this point if you’re interested.</p>

<p>I view what HS counselors say as just ‘input’ and not necessarily sound advice. Many GCs have no clue what they’re doing and can give bad advice. You’re right to question the advice. If this is a public HS with several GCs, if possible, try to figure out which one is the most knowledgable for college admissions and see if you can consult with that person. Don’t leave it up to chances based on the starting letter of your last name (what my kid’s HS did).</p>

<p>Edit - I cross-posted with you - I see you already know about the UC/CSU deadlines.</p>

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<p>I don’t think most guidance counselors at Ca public schools have much of a clue about college admissions.
I know 3 cases of U of Oregon where they all applied early. All got in. One had a GPA in your son’s range. I know about 4 yrs ago one of the OOS scholarships had a early deadline.
My son is a college senior whose grades were similar to your son’s. Scores probably similar. Upward trend in grades. I had him apply early everywhere he could. Two of the schools sent letters saying they would wait to make a decision pending seeing his first semester grades. So I doubt they would outright reject but might request more information.</p>

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<p>I assume you know that the UCs calculate the GPA themselvs and calculate it from the 10/11 grades - i.e. they don’t include the freshman year in the ‘UC GPA’ calculation. This might help your S quite a bit if he turned it around between 9/10.</p>

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<p>The UC’s don’t care if you apply Nov 1 or Nov 30, but don’t wait until the last minute bcos the server does crash. But, your S should apply on early for CSU, particularly if out of area.</p>

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<p>*Safeties are SFSU and Sonoma State.
Rolling, west to east: Seattle University, U of Oregon, De Paul, SUNY Purchase, possibly Pace and Adelphia.</p>

<p>What are his test scores? 1730 SAT and will retake ACT on 9/11</p>

<p>BTW, I teach at CSUN, so he’d get a nice tuition break at SFSU or Sonoma State… but, despite my nagging, subliminal noctural mutterings, and so forth, he deosn’t love his safeties like he loves the idea of being in or near New York City or, perhaps, Chicago…*</p>

<p>If he doesn’t love his financial safeties than he needs to find a couple that he does love. </p>

<p>The reality is that kids with good-but-not-super-stats who have a limited budget often end up at their safety schools because the other ones proved unaffordable.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that a safety is a school that you KNOW he can get accepted AND you KNOW you can afford all costs through assured grants, scholarships, small loans, and/or personal funds. It’s not a safety if you don’t know for sure how the costs will get paid. </p>

<p>Your list of rolling admissions schools is interesting. I don’t see any correlation except that two are Catholic and three are in NY. </p>

<p>Is cost a factor or is money no object? Cost is definitely a significant factor.</p>

<p>To be honest, I don’t see how most of these rolling schools would be affordable if cost is a significant factor. These aren’t schools that “meet need” and his stats aren’t likely going to get him merit scholarships to these schools. </p>

<p>How much can you spend each year? That will likely determine where your son should apply.</p>

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<p>

Just wondering - how good is the ‘employee discount’?</p>

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<p>This:</p>

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</p>

<p>This is exactly what happened to us, but it ended up more a high match for S. He held off applying until after the semester ended. In his case, I think it helped his admissions chances, but not where he ended up. He was admitted to several reach schools without enough merit to make it affordable; I think it may have tipped the balance at the state flagship, where he is going, but financial aid wasn’t a consideration there.</p>

<p>If the schools you are looking at have early deadlines, then you can’t wait. If they are schools where S may have a shot at merit $$, then earlier would probably be better also.</p>

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<p>I haven’t read all the replies, but it has been our experience that the early bird gets the worm at schools with rolling admission. Our first semester doesn’t end until Christmas and with deadlines of Jan 1 or whatever they were, all son’s applications were sent prior to the end of first semester.</p>

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<p>The fee waiver for CSU employees is half off of full-time tuition, UC -etc Dad.</p>

<p>I will be running the numbers this coming weekend to determine the exact dollar amount I think we can cover for the cost of attendance. Without looking at a spreadsheet at this moment, I know that the CSUs are no problem, while I <em>think</em> we can swing UC or SUNY if we cut back on luxuries. S can get a part-time job after he’s settled in wherever he attends college. </p>

<p>From what I’ve heard and also read on the website, Seattle University seems to have pretty good aid but it is expensive and I’m not sure what the gap might be. They do, however, promise the same level of FA for all four years, which sounds like the right thing to do, though few colleges do it.</p>

<p>S’s list probably does seem pretty random looking in from the outside and I’m not sure I can explain it (it’s taken me a good 17 years to somewhat fathom the mysterious creature that is my child!) The Catholic connection is that he attends a Catholic high school, has heard great things about SU and De Paul, and would love to go to school in a hip part of a big city. I might land up using this approach to convince him of why SFSU is a perfect safety, both academically and financially.</p>

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<p>Calv1n, I agree with all the replies posted: your son has very little to gain, but A LOT to lose by waiting until the end of first semester. In this case, the GC’s advice is just ill-informed.</p>

<p>Btw…kudos to your son for that awesome junior year GPA! That will be a favorable boost in the eyes of Adcoms. Best of luck!</p>

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<p>Definitely apply as early as possible to schools with rolling admissions. Here the admissions standards keep going up as time passes. It is likely to be the same elsewhere. With the upward trend in GPA, they are unlikely to reject him off the bat–they might hold the decision until first semester senior grades are received, but it is unlikely he would wind up worse off. Your son might apply to a college or two in the reach category following the GC’s advice, but get a few apps in soon, also.</p>

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<p>APPLY EARLY!!! No question about it…</p>

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<p>I’m a little late to the game here…Calvin…if your son is applying to schools that are within a likely range for acceptance, he should get his applications done as early as he can…even EA is fine. Both of my kids had their college applications in the mail by the first week of October…ALL of them…This made their senior years significantly more pleasant as they were done applying to schools. Both had rolling admissions and/or EA acceptances before Thanksgiving. They KNEW they were going to college somewhere. </p>

<p>The only reason to wait is if your son is applying to a school where he needs to have a better GPA for acceptance purposes…but you know…all of my kids’ schools asked for midyear transcripts too (the EA and rolling ones that accepted them). </p>

<p>So…if he’s good to go with the applications, I say…send them. His life (and yours) will be significantly improved once these applications are out of your house.</p>