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I do not believe that being taught in large classes by teaching assistants is a quality education. You get that sometimes at the Ivies.
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You get that sometimes at almost all universities.</p>
<p>It depends on your field. People like to hire people who went to the same university as them, so sometimes a flagship state school can be even better than an ivy-caliber one.</p>
<p>Plus, an undergrad school is about a tenth as important as grad school. For which i would say an ivy-caliber school gives you a good leg up.</p>
<p>The only reason i could thing of for attending an ivy-caliber undergrad would be that you work best when surrounded by the brightest, you want a more rigorous environment, and you want to buy into the elitist life style. </p>
<p>honestly an undergrad degree from Harvard isn't going to help you much more than one from UCLA.</p>
<p>But UCLA is a top school too. Not an Ivy League, but also a top school. I assumed the thread owner meant top schools and Ivy League schools. You know, like Stanford, MIT, or such.</p>
<p>You really can't make this broad argument. Is a UCLA degree has "useful" as a Harvard degree? If you're going to be self-employed, looking for non-competitive jobs, sure. However, for other employment prospects... like banking, consulting, finance in general, internships at large corporations, the DA's office, stuff like that, you can bet your bottom dollar that all other things equal, that ivy league degree carries considerably more oomph.</p>
<p>Lol, i dont like big big schools, waste my time with idiotic kids who can't pick up things fast. Ivy's are just a branded name tag for kids who dont have enough caliber( hinting towards the rich kids) to be academically gifted/or academically gifted but socially retarded. If you want a number for your first few years of university, go to a huge school like harvard and try to have fun. If you want a better education, go to a private institution, THEN MAYBE TRY GRADUATE SCHOOL AT HARVARD...ivies are pointless...some of the best schools arent even ivy...</p>
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hinting towards the rich kids
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Yale- 42.9% receive financial aid
Dartmouth- 52.0% receive financial aid
Cornell- 45.6% receive financial aid</p>
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If you want a number for your first few years of university, go to a huge school like harvard and try to have fun.
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With 6700 undergraduates, Harvard is hardly "huge."</p>
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If you want a better education, go to a private institution
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Yes, because we all know Ivies aren't private.</p>
<p>I don't know whether to take Ambitiousteen seriously or just ignore what he said. While I'm inclined to believe there is some favoritism towards those of wealthy/notable backgrounds, I don't believe it runs as rampant as Ambitiousteen would like to believe and probably only applies to less than 10% of any class. Like Warblersrule said, Harvard is not a "huge" school by a long shot. It might seem big compared to LACs, but most people categorize Harvard as "medium." The private school comment really got me. I wish ivies weren't private schools. I'd have forced my parents to move in-state to one of them and certainly applied. Ivies aren't pointless. As discussed, graduating from an ivy can open many doorways for someone, even if it's undeserved in some cases. However, the one legitimate thing said in that entire post is that some of the best schools aren't even ivies. Now there's one thing I think we all can agree to.</p>
<p>Even Stanford is a medium school in terms of students. Not campus. xD Definitely not campus. I think the ivies are some of the top schools, but not the only top schools.</p>
<p>AmbitiousTenn, you think the ivy students are slow and can't pick up things quickly? Most of the stduents that get into those schools are among the brightest in the country. Do you even kno which schools are in the ivy?</p>
<p>Ambitious Teen, you're either just plain old stupid or are trying to pull off a retarded joke. His sentences don't make grammatically sense showing that his "lol Im so smart ivy students r stupid" shows that he in fact is an idiot who probally failed his SATs. AmbitiousTeen's remarks aren't really logical arguments since they are clearly wrong to anyone with even a hint of an IQ, but just in case there are some AmbitiousTeen replicas out there (by god) then ill slaughter his pathetic arguments.</p>
<p>Ivies are superior to many schools, both because of the academics, the glorious alumni base which is superior to every other school on Earth, and the great, caring personal enviornment that many find lacking at big state schools, and even though the ivies are big research based universities, they still devote enormous personal care to their students beyond most other schools ever care to.</p>
<p>In the words of the great Daniel Webster, of Dartmouth College, "Its a small school sir...but there are those who love it". </p>
<p>Ivies are not 'stupid', sorry. Its the truth.</p>
<p>People always seem to think people that go to ivies are snobs and are only going there because of the reputation. If they pass up another school, they think they only did it so they could go to an ivy and get prestige.Maybe the did it because of the fact the ivy was a better school was for them? No one ever thinks that. So what, should no one go to ivies ever?</p>
<p>I know a married couple who went to ivies but never became someone and are extremely poor. I guess that part of it is that they don't have ambition they are happy with life the way it is. While Ivies can open some doors it doesn't mean that it's the fundamental key to succes. I always think that we go to school to get our degree but we shape our education by learning as much as we can and by becoming a verry intelectual person, someone who is well aware of many things. I believe that the way we sell ourselves to future employers, the way we do our jobs are the real key to success. </p>
<p>After you get your education it all depend on how you want to guide yourself through the future. There are some external circumstance that might stop you from being who you want to be and do all you would like to gain success but you still have more power on your life than the piece of paper(diploma) that was given to you when you graduated. I.e , if you are working in the same company than an Ivi alumnae, but you help the company make more profit and is more dymanic than the Ivy graduate, than in a fair world you will be more succesful and get promoted before the other dude. Now once you get into the real world, you just have to push it as hard as you can so no one can beat you because you didn't have your diploma from a "prestigious school"</p>
<p>As as general rule, you should try to go to the best school you can get into and afford. There is a difference. But the main difference that tends to get overlooked is the student body. The competiting and learning with students who are among the best is the value really helps you grow intellectually. If you go to a school where there are only one or two in a class, it is not the same. The sports analogy works, there is a difference between DIV 1 and DIV III. If you want to get good at a sport you need to test yourself against the best or you can't grown. And, yes there are exceptions, but they are a significant minority.</p>
<p>The point here is that if you want to get a decent job, you have to go to graduate school- so your undergraduate college does not have to have name recognition among employers. To the less superficial and more informed graduate schools, they will recognise a little-known small but brilliant college.</p>
<p>My plan: LAC undergraduate that does not require me to sacrifice education quality for name recognition, then a more well known graduate college where employers recruit and where resources are better funded.</p>
<p>Also, going to a good school does not guarantee anything about the success of your life. My school is 1st nationally of its type and one of its graduates is on death row for murdering her parents right now...</p>
<p>it's a load of vacuous waffle, what these people are telling you, most people seem to be either defending their desire to get into an ivy, or else trying to convince themselves they don't care if they get in or not. </p>
<p>of course, in many fields (law, business, medicine, etc.) having a degree from the ivy's can have a significant impact on getting your first few jobs, it is kind of like stamp of excellence, showing that this person obviously had intelligence and a good work ethic, enough so to get into Princeton, Yale, etc.</p>
<p>but having a degree from an ivy league school isn't going to especially help you after a certain point in your career, by the time you are 30, say, employers are going to be much more curious as to what you've done at your last few jobs, not where you went to college. </p>
<p>my father works in business and says that many of the many of successful CEOs he's met went to state schools, or even schools that were regarded simply as "above average", what made them successful is more that they had a strong work ethic/weren't afraid to take risks/being able to schmooze well/etc. Whereas he's met file clerks who had gone to Harvard, but didn't end up doing very much in their lives after that. </p>
<p>does going to an ivy league school give you an excellent education and a foot in the door? of course, but the people who attended Ivy League schools and became extremely successful in their field probably owe that success to their natural qualities more than an ivy league degree, and would have managed to achieve success even if they had gone to only a "good" school, since real talent or ability eventually speaks for itself.</p>
<p>^^^^^
I think he pretty much nailed it.</p>
<p>I concur, that is precisely what I was thinking throughout this thread. While I don't feel it's necessary to attend an ivy to achieve substantial growth and success, it doesn't hurt either. And I see no point in throwing one's nose up at those who have attended ivies, it smacks of jealosy and crude judgmentality. I cannot afford to attend an ivy, sadly, but if it was an option, I would jump on the chance, and I could care less what kind of weight the name carries. I would take that college over another because it was the right fit for my goals and aspirations.</p>
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The point here is that if you want to get a decent job, you have to go to graduate school
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<p>I can't agree with that. Plenty of people get quite good jobs who never go to grad school. </p>
<p>As a case in point, consider Steven Cohen. He has only a bachelor's degree from Wharton. After graduation, he got a good job on Wall Street in which he was highly successful and which he later parlayed into launching his own hedge fund (SAC Capital Partners). His estimated net worth is about $7 billion, making him one of the richest men in the world. He never went to grad school.</p>
<p>Or consider Jonathan Schwartz. His first job right out of undergrad was at McKinsey. That's obviously a quite good job. He later eventually became the CEO of Sun Microsystems. He's never been to grad school. </p>
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but having a degree from an ivy league school isn't going to especially help you after a certain point in your career, by the time you are 30, say, employers are going to be much more curious as to what you've done at your last few jobs, not where you went to college.
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<p>Well, actually, I would say that this thread seems to have missed arguably the most important advantage that Ivies can confer: namely, the networking. Let's face it. A lot of business success is not so much about what you know than about * who* you know. One extremely effective way to know people is to go to school with them. </p>
<p>Take Steve Ballmer. Let's face it. The reason why he is the CEO of Microsoft and a multibillionaire is simple: he was Bill Gates's old poker-playing buddy at Currier House at Harvard. If Ballmer had never gone to Harvard, he would never have met Bill, and consequently, he wouldn't be worth billions right now. Whether we like it or not, a lot of hiring is done through social networks, where you hire your friends or friends of friends. This is particularly true of startup firms that simply don't have the resources and expertise to conduct a nationwide search for talent. For example, most of the early employees at Microsoft were friends of the founders (Gates and Allen). Similarly, most of the early employees at Google were friends of Brin or Page. In fact, much research has recently been published in the management literature regarding the deep social ties within the entrepreneurship community. The same can be said for other tight-knit industries such as investment banking, private equity, hedge funds, venture capital, etc.</p>
<p>The Steve Ballmer story gets old around CC. How about this? New Mexico State graduate.</p>
<p>From</a> Uncertain Future To Leading Yahoo Bid - WSJ.com</p>
<p>getting an Ivy League degree is like getting a free pass to succeed at life. I don't go to nor could I ever get into an Ivy League school, but being able to show an employer a Harvard degree is not something many people can do.</p>