<p>But remember root, no real math whiz would have a heart attack and NOT finish the section just to throw off the curve for everyone else...damn it.</p>
<p>lol whoever correlates talent with sat is a moron</p>
<p>yeah i think i am facing the same situation. 2400 SAT but a lot lower GPA. and crappy rankings. don't even think i am in top 10%
i am just wondering how that will play out with the ivies</p>
<p>It hurts really bad, unless your school doesnt rank. Ivies are now being almost fully populated by students from schools who do not rank....lucky (I remember seeing that like over 60% of Princeton Students were unranked in high school. Source: Princeton Website)</p>
<p>Some gifted students, especially boys, it seems, underachieve in HS- boredom being one factor. Another lower grade factor is not doing the work, such as getting 100% on tests and quizzes but not turning in homework. A problem with grades lower than test scores is the question of whether or not the student will do the work in college. Colleges want students to be sucessful, the student who has shown mastery of material via grades and good test scores is seen as more likely to be successful than the student who may or may not do the work in college. The school's quality is not to be blamed (nor are the parents- personal experience at trying to get a gifted son to do the work...) - schools are not geared towards gifted education, but to the majority of the student population. </p>
<p>You can get high grades and lesser SAT II test scores for two reasons- the course may not have taught what was tested or the student did not study like they should have for the test. There is a correlation between intelligence and ACT/SAT I test scores- they are just one piece of the best college fit puzzle, however. I'm detecting ignorance and/or sour grapes-immaturity with some of the comments posted on this thread.</p>
<p>Consider this- there are many excellent schools out there that are not IVY league, and there are no more spots in any school than years ago despite there being many more extremely well qualified applicants today (blame your grandparents for the baby boom and society for emphasizing going to college). Do not count on getting into your dream school, have a safety- such as a public U with a good Honors program. Get a good undergraduate college education so you can get into the grad school of your dreams. Above all, remember there is life outside of the HYPS type schools, and the opportunity to get an excellent education. Look at the credentials of the professors who teach at the top schools- you will see a vast array of other schools. Get beyond an obsession with certain schools and research your second tier list.</p>
<p>After all that, no, it isn't wierd to have good but not perfect grades and high test scores- especially if you are male. Unfortunately there are so many students vying for places in the elite colleges now that there is a huge surplus of students who could do well at these schools but won't be able to be undergrads at them. You will find many IVY caliber students in the Honors programs of their flagship public U's as well as at many other top schools.</p>
<p>I just wrote this in another thread, but I'll repeat here. Look, some kids/people just can't do well on standardized tests. My daughter, who attends one of the highest ranked schools in our state, does pretty well in school (3.5 unweighted GPA). She does take a few AP classes, and does well with them (A, B, B) .... BUT she did absolutely miserable on her ACT and SAT tests. Believe me, we are both at a loss. I mean, she studies and studies and studies, but she can't get a good score. PUZZLED!!! BTW, my daughter's school doesn't give out ANY extra-credit, or at least, she's never received any.</p>
<p>So, anyway, just because someone does poorly on the ACT or SAT, but has half-way decent or good grades doesn't mean that their school over-inflates grades or aren't competetive .... Sometimes it just means that that student has a problem with standardized tests. And, BTW, a lot of colleges aren't even looking at ACT or SAT scores any longer, because studies have shown that most students who get like a "20" on the ACT does just as well in college as the students who get like a "27" on the same test. The colleges/universities are finally realizing that you can't judge a student's potential by 1 single test.</p>
<p>^Thank you Risinghigh... Not everyone who does well in school even in difficult schools does well on standardized tests</p>
<p>That is definitely not weird at all. There are lot of people like you applying to college.
I had pretty high SAT/ACT scores and a relatively low GPA (1560 SAT, 34 ACT, 3.8 GPA) and am currently typing this in my room at Duke.</p>
<p>I wouldn't say that those with high grades and low test scores always get those grades due to inflation though. There are just some people who are bad at taking standardized tests. No one can say that the typical test you take in high school is anything like the ACT or SAT. </p>
<p>I would say though that both of these tests are fairly good predictors of potential to do well. It is true that there are people with 20 ACT who do just as well as those with 27 ACT but you'll often find that the 20 ACT kid in college is either
a.)Studies more
b.) Is taking mostly classes in subjects that he or she excels in
(For example if the kid has a 30 Math but did poorly elsewhere).</p>
<p>Believe it or not, there are people out there who will never work to their potential.</p>
<p>I am one of those kids who had a high SAT score in the mid 2200 (one attempt) and a relatively low GPA 3.6-3.8. I went to a really tough British School where you had to earn your grades. There were no extra credits in my school THANK THE LORD I KNOW all about those extra credits as I attended an American public High School for a year. (Every Tom Dick and Harry had a 4.0 in that school thanks to extra credits). In my British School I had two options either to hit my books full time or study smart. I chose the latter. In my book there is no difference between an A- and an A+ if it means killing myself and studying few extra hours just to get those extra points. If people want to label my kind as lazy and working below our potential so be it. That extra time is better invested in pursuing other activities and enjoying life. I am now at a top university doing engineering and better prepared for college than a lot of my class mates who had higher GPA's than me.</p>
<p>I suck at taking SAT's. Though i am good at math i always make silly mistakes, i never manage to get full marks in any of my IB math tests. Somehow, a little birdy took all my silly mistakes away(just joking) and i got an 800 for math. one of the rare occurences in my life.</p>
<p>To the OP: That's one of the weirdest things I've ever heard in my life. It's so weird it's kinda scary....</p>
<p>my school over inflates everyone's grades. there are so many idiots who have 4.0+ gpas, who are taking all regular classes. i am taking all aps, and i have a 3.5, its so messed up! my SATs are 2000+ and they all have 1700 and below. i hate how the system works. i hope i can get into my top schools with a 3.5 gpa (with all AP classes) and a 2000 sat... i will be mad if those kids get accepted to their schools and I don't.</p>
<p>Don't loose heart lostinbalt you will get into a good school the AP's do count especially if you are applying to good universities but be prepared to see some of those idiots who have coasted through high-school without taking tough course loads also get accepted to some of the top schools. If you apply to many schools the chances are that you will get accepted to a few. Also make sure your essays and interviews are unique or off beat so that they stand out. Do not write formulaic essays on how working with poor people changed your life or some such crap. They are dime a dozen. But you have to realize that the admission game is about geography, location, background, numbers and they are mostly unpredictable especially this year when they have record number of graduating seniors. So apply to many colleges on both the coasts, mid west and southern parts of the country so that you optimize your chances of getting into a good school. Thats what I did. Good luck.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
A Lot of College aren't looking at ACT or SAT scores
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>"A Lot" = not really, and the ones who do are almost 100% composed of Liberal Arts Colleges, who's percise purpose is because they do not focus as much on academics as much on what kind of human soul you are.</p>
<p>But for places like Princeton and the top 30, SAT and ACT scores are clearly as important, if not more so, than GPA. Princeton's Acceptance rate for people with over 2300 on their SAT's was a Whopping 25%! 25%</p>
<p>The thing is that if you can't do well on standarized tests, thats a problem you have to deal with, because you'll be faced with them constantly whether you're trying to be a lawyer (LSAT), Teacher (GRE) or anything. Standarized Tests are a modern phenomenon that you MUST excel it sometime in the future. (That thing about stressing out during tests does not prove positive for character either - if you stressed out during a timed and crucial situation, how useful of a person are you in the real world? Less than a person who can deal with the ultra-stress)</p>
<p>I'm not saying though that none of the people who do bad on the SAT aren't very smart or of the same caliber as HYP students, but the fact that they don't doesnt reveal 'nothing', but infact reveals certain qualities of the person, which are invaluble.</p>
<p>Let us not forget wise Plato's words when he wrote *The Republic *</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
The man who has the ability but not the desire is more useful to the state than the man who has the desire but not the ability
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>(His quote is slightly harsher though than what i'm saying)</p>
<p>
But for places like Princeton and the top 30, SAT and ACT scores are clearly as important, if not more so, than GPA. Princeton's Acceptance rate for people with over 2300 on their SAT's was a Whopping 25%! 25%
I think those with 2300 got in not because of their test scores, but because generally people with higher test scores (2300) do well in academics and win awards, etc...</p>
<p>However, the SAT generally only measures how good you can take the SAT (the techniques, etc) and the MCAT and other graduate tests are more of subject matter than reasoning...</p>
<p>who says SAT measures ability, rootbeercaesar?</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
I think those with 2300 got in not because of their test scores, but because generally people with higher test scores (2300) do well in academics and win awards, etc...</p>
<p>However, the SAT generally only measures how good you can take the SAT (the techniques, etc) and the MCAT and other graduate tests are more of subject matter than reasoning...
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Very valid point. It is true that of the standarized tests, the SAT is the least valid when considering things like the MCAT and LSAT. </p>
<p>Yet the SAT doesn't measure 'nothing' either. There clearly must be some level of difference in ability between a 2300 scorer and a 1700 scorer. I'm not talking about minor variations in the SAT, but categorically the category of scores of which scores fall under are generally indicative of some sort of better ability in reasoning (even though the LSAT tests this the best), if you ignore the occasional case where it is just some special situation in the case of a very talented person who doesn't preform well for some awkward reason.</p>
<p>Some of you are very mistaken when you argue that people who did very well in high school, but did poorly on the SATs went to easier high schools or received artificial grades in high school. While some schools are less difficult than others, to discredit someone's GPA and academic ability based on their SAT score is ridiculous. </p>
<p>I am an example of the student who did exceptionally well in high school and aced pre-calculus, but only got a 590 on the SATs. You may assume that my teacher was passive or the course was easy, but that is not the case. Some of us do not do well on the SATs because of the environment in which the test is taken and the way in which the test evaluates one's ability. How is it that I did so poorly on the math SAT section, yet I have completed two semesters of calculus at a selective private institution and received an A- and an A? Clearly for some of us low scorers the SATs are a poor indicator of academic ability.</p>
<p>For 'some' of us - those cases are usually flukes or outliers that are naturally inherent in any test in the world. In the SAT there are a considerable amount of invalidity which I have alreayd admitted</p>