<p>Hey Guys, A quick question</p>
<p>I've read around that the tentative major you put on your application can actually affect your chances of getting in.</p>
<p>Specifically that if you put biology or something medical related your chances are lower than if you put a liberal arts or humanities major.</p>
<p>Fact or Myth?</p>
<p>I wonder too. </p>
<p>Specifically, I noticed my D’s intended major at Harvard has gone from almost 200 students in 2005 to just over 100 in 2009, but the department is highly ranked. I’m curious about the drop-off and if this might help her since her ec’s and class work support her interest.</p>
<p>No. Harvard knows that what you indicate as your potential concentration more than likely won’t end up being your concentration when you graduate, so they don’t care.</p>
<p>@ Dwight</p>
<p>What if you substantiate your interest in a certain future major through common app essays, engineering supplements, and extracurriculars? For example, I drew from various sources for my passion towards biomedical engineering and I explained why/how/when I became interested towards this field. To put me, someone who’s truly passionate about their future career, and some John Smith who doesn’t have a clue what he’s going to do in the same boat offends me a bit.</p>
<p>ITA with Dwight.</p>
<p>JudgmentDay, I really am sorry if this bothers you, but I don’t think your feelings on the issue will matter much to Harvard. Without a doubt, one of my less pleasant memories of Harvard is spending a great deal of time thinking that I needed Harvard a lot more than Harvard needed me.</p>
<p>I think it depends whether or not your ECs and everything support that. Let’s say you decide to put Ornithology as your major, I think it would be much more beneficial if you were part of the Bird Watchers Association of America and you wrote a heart-wrenching essay about the beauty of birds (if that’s possible…) than if your ECs all showed you were interested in English and you put Ornithology. (I don’t even know if Ornithology is offered or if there is a real BWAA lol that was purely hypothetical).</p>
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<p>You’re in high school, that’s about all I have to say to that.</p>
<p>If you have everything from tomorrow until retirement planned out already, that’s great. But that won’t give you any sort of boost in admissions. You’re confusing being passionate about things (good) with being decided about things (irrelevant). Harvard sees itself as a place where people can decide things.</p>
<p>I put “undecided” on my applications. I was passionate about a bunch of individual things in high school that had nothing to do with each other. Harvard (I’m assuming) saw that, as did the other colleges to which I was accepted. That was two years ago. I decided my major a month ago. My name is John Smith. Do I offend you?</p>
<p>^ First off, John Smith was simply the most pedestrian name I could think of. And my use of the name does not imply that I secretly loath everyone named John Smith, including you. </p>
<p>Let’s take two scenarios: </p>
<p>Applicant A shows a strong interest in the medical field and has proven this claim through internships with professors, volunteer at local hospitals, etc. </p>
<p>Applicant B places undecided on his/her application. While he/she has not demonstrated any interest towards a particular major, he/she has shown passion towards selected subjects in high school by being the president of the Chess Club, president of the Young Democrats, etc. </p>
<p>I’m not seeking to judge your acceptance to Harvard, merely posing a question that is debatable. Does Applicant A show greater promise/stand a greater chance at a selective school? Once again, in making this decision, I’m not trying to play the adcom, simply giving my perspective, but I believe that Applicant A stands a better chance simply because of the focus he has given to his future career/major.</p>
<p>Correct me if I’m wrong Dwight, I’m not saying that my viewpoint is infallible.</p>
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</p>
<p>My name isn’t actually John Smith…that wasn’t my point.</p>
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<ol>
<li><p>See bolded contradiction</p></li>
<li><p>Show me some press release from the Harvard admissions office that says an advantage is given to students who know what their future career is going to be, and I’ll stop thinking you’re just making things up to make yourself feel less nervous (a very understandable thing to do, to be fair) about applying to a school that rejects 94% of its applicants. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>I can’t find the statistic but a majority of pre-meds stop being pre-meds after they actually start being pre-meds. Roughly 33% of Harvard students declare something the first time and then file to change it again later. That doesn’t even speak to the number of people who change from what they put on their applications before they were old enough to buy a scratch ticket. Stop giving me crap. At the end of the day, Harvard wants a talented, motivated student body. You do not need to know what your next 10 years look like to have either of those traits. How many times do you hear the word “focus” in admissions presentations?</p>
<p>I’ll be the first to say I have no idea what may or may not happen in admissions.</p>
<p>I do know three things that indicate having a plan or focus “may” help. (Conversely, it may also hurt if one chooses an over-subscribed field or has a bad plan.)</p>
<h1>1 - at an invite-only, full-ride info session at a top-50 school, the director said, “We want students who have formulated and begun executing a good plan for their future. We know they may change their plan, even multiple times, but fully trust that subsequent plans will be equal to, if not better, than preceding plans.”</h1>
<h1>2 - Yale press indicates they were especially interested in strong Science candidates in their SCEA round. Hence, choosing a science field on the application and having Science ec’s proved helpful to those admits.</h1>
<h1>3 - Colleges ask. If field of interest is completely irrelevant, questions about college and career plans would not appear on applications.</h1>
<p>Being a strong candidate with undecided future study and career plans obviously does not disqualify. It is best to be honest and trust the process since it is difficult to successfully game a system in which there are no hard and fast rules.</p>
<p>We have advised D to cast a decent sized net and not love until she’s loved. H did convince her to add Harvard, though, because of what “appears” to be a need by them and fit in her planned concentration/major.</p>
<p>
Implying that most Harvard students don’t choose the concentration they put on the application. Do you have any statistics to back that up? I put engineering as possible concentration, so I’m interested to know if I’m more likely than not going to give it up soon :)</p>
<p>
I enjoyed reading the whole John Smith thing :D</p>
<p>Data? No. But I knew LOTS of classmates who changed their concentrations at Harvard.</p>
<p>I entered planning to concentrate in Classics. I actually took my undergraduate degree in geology. Then I went to graduate school in English literature.</p>
<p>It certainly happens–and not infrequently.</p>
<p>
I don’t doubt that - never did. I know that at the Ivies and top schools, and possibly even normal-er schools, many students decide on something different than what they initially intended. I just wanted to check if the majority (>50%) change their intended concentration or keep it.</p>
<p>JudgmentDay: while you may assert your strong inclination for one field or another – you’re just plain wrong when you think that HYP admissions favors these over equally interesting admitees who indicate “undecided”. Sure, “pointy” applicants can get a reader’s attention (think Siemens finalist or a published author). But equally, a interesting person w/superior academics who will obviously be a benefit to the Harvard community but is… (shivers) undecided will be equally considered. </p>
<p>I know that a good many Yale graduates ended up majoring in something besides what they indicated as 17 year old applicants. Imagine that. Since we must assume similarities btn Yale and Harvard students (as loathsome as this might be to some), I can tell you 100% that Yale admissions views their applicants’ “intended major” as “only a point of curiosity”. And I’m directly quoting Yale admissions officers. Certainly makes sense given the ease and frequency of switching I quoted. </p>
<p>Now how would Harvard differ so greatly? I’m at a loss to see how.</p>
<p>BTW: I put down “Chem” for my Ivy apps although I had no super-strong science ECs or awards – and had even gotten Bs in my Honors Chemistry class. It was sincerely, my thought of what I wanted to study. It didn’t affect my admissions. All accepted me and I eventually matriculated at one of Harvard’s peer schools — majoring in Econ.</p>
<ol>
<li> Here’s the deal: Harvard – not you, not your parents, not your college counselors – is the expert on what people who turn out to be great Harvard students and great Harvard alumni look like when they are seniors in high school. It’s really hard to reverse-engineer their standard, because I think there isn’t a single model that they apply to everyone. Some people look like they have their entire lives planned out (even though Harvard knows perfectly well that most of them will change their plans, modestly or radically, during the next two or three years). Others may present as rebels in search of a cause. Or people who have devoted most of their time and energy to something they will have to abandon in the foreseeable future, and will need to decide what is going to replace it.</li>
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<p>No, Harvard doesn’t accept a lot of people who are completely directionless (not, that is, unless they are also really good at things like sacking quarterbacks or scoring goals). But, honestly, applicants who are passionate about biomedical engineering and organize their essays and ECs around that are approximately a dime a dozen.</p>
<ol>
<li> I don’t know where the figures come from, but the “a majority of college graduates do not graduate with the major they intended when they matriculated” is a very common theme, and it certainly applies to a place like Harvard that takes pains not to silo students (or permit students to silo themselves) in their early undergraduate years.</li>
</ol>
<p>Here are some career arcs of my contemporaries at HYPS:</p>
<ol>
<li> ? - History - Geology - Law - Politics - Environmentalism - Sailing - Teaching</li>
<li> Psychology - Women’s Studies - Real Estate - Poverty Law - Public Health - Early Childhood Education - Management</li>
<li> Medical Research</li>
<li> Medical Research - Public Health - Medical Quality Control</li>
<li> Studio Art - Medicine - Family Practice - Medical Research - Family Practice</li>
<li> Political Science - Law - Politics - Lobbying - Banking - Investment Banking - Banking</li>
<li> East Asian Studies (Korea) - EAS (Japan) - Journalism (Japan) - Journalism (Business) - Consumer Advocacy</li>
<li> Geology - Spanish Literature - Investment Analysis</li>
<li> Physics - Nuclear Engineering - Law</li>
<li>Math - Economics - Poverty Law</li>
<li> Economics - Journalism - Law - Pharmaceuticals</li>
<li> Medicine - English Literature - Law - Criminology</li>
<li> ? - History - Art History - Options Trading - Medicine</li>
<li> ? - Art History - Real Estate Development</li>
</ol>
<p>Smart people often take very crooked paths through life.</p>
<p>T26 has (not surprisingly) hit on something quite relevant: a lot of Harvard students (and Yalies, too) are strong in many areas, and have wide-ranging curiosity. It stands to reason a hefty percentage will not end up where they thought they would at age 17. </p>
<p>I, however, was simply the admissions error for my year.</p>
<p>See #1 on Post #10</p>
<p>17-year-olds who do and can plan well, usually come up with an interesting, varied, re-worked, but ultimately great plan during their lives. Other solid factors obviously prevail in college admissions, but having an idea about ones future must be of interest to admissions committees (for them to ask) and is likely viewed favorably unless it is assuredly far-fetched. </p>
<p>(Wouldn’t you love to know what Bill Gates and others put on their college applications?)</p>
<p>One more thing to ponder -</p>
<p>D’s friend - female - was accepted to nearby well-regarded tech college with competitive stats but no Math or Science AP’s or ec’s. She indiated Biomedical Engineering as major although she’s taken half a dozen Journalism classes with ec’s to match. </p>
<p>Male ORM friend with a full range of AP’s and equally competitive stats, with the exception of a mediocre grade in AP Physics, was denied. He also indicated Engineering as major.</p>
<p>The school has a growing Liberal Arts program which they’ve worked hard to promote. What if he had indicated this area of interest? What if she had?</p>
<p>A kid who got into Yale with an 1800 SAT was touting on another thread how SAT’s don’t matter. What he failed to realize is that they didn’t matter for him - an accomplished URM, but they DO matter for most applicants. Indicated area of interest/planned major doesn’t matter for some while it most certainly does for others. Most will never know if it matters for them or not, ergo, we speculate 
.</p>
<p>^Nothing too unusual about the girl getting in and the guy not getting in - when they say holistic, they mean it. I don’t have science-y ECAs and I’m not worried about that because I’ve demonstrated my love for science and engineering in other ways. If I don’t get in, I doubt that’ll be the reason.</p>
<p>As for the Yale guy - I noticed on some Ivy’s decisions thread (can’t quite remember which) that someone with a top 40% rank was accepted, and was touting this as proof that top colleges really don’t care all that much about scores and rank. The guy failed to realize that his hook was being an athlete, somehow. That’s assuming the profile was true, anyway. Generalities can’t be made about holistic admissions. Chances can increase and decrease based on the objective parts of the application (stats, hooks, etc.), but no one can really tell you whether or not your essays/recommendations increase or decrease your chances, as you can’t know what admissions officers will want in a given year. It’s really quite unpredictable in most cases.</p>
<p>JHS: I like your list. Let me think about some of my buddies</p>
<p>1) East Asian Studies (Chinese) (this guy is Jewish): investment banking – still there
2) Amer History: MBA, consulting firm partner
3) Biology: PhD in Biology, professor at Big Ten univ., Minister
4) Economics: Investment banking, Minster, Dept of Defense contract specialist
5) English: tramp, free lance journalist, ABC correspondent, 60 minutes correspondent, now has his own 2 hour show nightly
6) English: Law School, US Attorney’s office, US District Atty Genl, head of Criminal Dept Dept of Justice, private practice
7) English: tramp actor, still a tramp actor in California w/occasional TV work
8) Women’s studies: PhD and prof, full time mom
9) History: Olympic Judo team twice, motivational speaker
10) History: Harvard Law School w/B Obama, founded educational foundation for afterschool tutoring of underserved kids in Boston. Full time fundraiser for latest foundation, his third.
11) Economics: teach for america, MBA, teach for America president, now another foundation
12) History, TFA, MBA, MBA admissions work
13) Chem eng: Oil industry, Law School, Dept of Justice appointee
14) Biology: Phd/MD, research, practice, full time mom
15) English: Sports journalism, ESPN correspondent, network marketing partner</p>
<p>Strange paths indeed</p>