<p>i just wanted to use this post to laugh mercilessly at the guy who said that Harvard SSP would get him a job anywhere. i cant believe someone can be so blind. it's analogous to saying that buying an $8000 car will get you a job anywhere. and before you say anything, i did SSP 2003.</p>
<p>eyesonharvard, i'd advise you to chill out before you hurt yourself. probability says you won't get in--that's just a fact--so you can like harvard, but don't get too attached.</p>
<p>America disagrees!</p>
<p>Look at this front-page story from the heartland:</p>
<p>-justice</p>
<p>I'd love to go to Harvard. I know the odds are against it. But hey, if you're gonna aim, aim for the top. If you don't get to the top, what you'll get to will still be pretty good. After all, If I can compete at Harvard admissions then the odds of me getting into Brown, Penn, et al are very favorable.</p>
<p>And Byerly, you're right on target as awalys :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yale and Princeton have good name recognition also. It's just not universal. Harvard on the other hand is known EVERYWHERE.
[/quote]
On the other side of the world in particular, most people know harvard, oxford and cambridge but have never heard of yale or princeton! If you say, "I went to harvard," they go wow. ANY other college is just another american college.</p>
<p>aaron et al: What side of the world are you talking about? Can you substantiate claims like that at all? No. Having travelled the entire world, you can, I'm sure, conclusively evaluate the name recognition of Harvard as compared to Stanford, MIT, Columbia, Yale, Princeton, etc., just to name a few American universities with international prestige. I'm sure now would be a good time for Byerly to chime in with one of those lovely rankings reports.</p>
<p>Byerly...really..."the Heartland" thinks Harvard SSP is the ticket to success? Try an ignorant newspaperman in Batavia, "a village located in Clermont County, Ohio. As of the 2000 census, the village had a total population of 1,617."</p>
<p>Harvard SSP is accessible to almost anyone with the money to blow.</p>
<p>Actually, from my own experience Aaron is right.</p>
<p>I'm from Britain, a country that isn't exactly isolated from American culture. Most people I speak to know little, and most of the time nothing at all, about Yale, Stanford, et al. Harvard is different. They know about Harvard - as in, "Oh yeah - that's the number 1 University in the world isn't it?". The others, they could care less about.</p>
<p>You see it at the Fulbright Commission College Fairs they run too - extremely good colleges such as Penn, Cornell, Stanford, etc. will have few people coming up to their stands. Whereas the Harvard stand is like a rugby scrum.</p>
<p>Well, that speaks rather poorly of the people you know in Britain. And it's clear they don't actually know anything about Harvard beyond a hazy interpretation of its prestige.</p>
<p>While I'm sure that scenario exists in many other parts of the world, perhaps even "On the other side of the world in particular" as aaron so helpfully explained, I just don't think it's much to be proud of. Really, so what if high schoolers have a misguided preference for Harvard over its peer schools? Bully for Harvard's marketing then.</p>
<p>Among already-educated people who can reasonably compare colleges (i.e. often the people who make hiring decisions), Harvard is by no means the only well-known American university. Go ask a local Oxbridge grad if Harvard's the only American school s/he thinks well of.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Well, that speaks rather poorly of the people you know in Britain.<< </p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Harvard's fame is not confined just to a few benighted people in Britain. I was recently at a business lunch where there were five of us seated at one table. I was the lone American; the others were from France, India, Germany, and China, respectively. In the course of the small talk I was asked where my daughter is attending college. When I said Harvard they all congratulated me and, they unanimously agreed that back home in their respective countries the only US university they had heard of was Harvard.</p>
<p>I agree that you can get as good an education at many US universities. I didn't go to Harvard myself, but I'd like to think I got a good education. But for name recognition, both at home and especially abroad, Harvard is in a class by itself. Overseas it's often Harvard in first place and nobody in second.</p>
<p>harvard is definitely the most famous, but what kind of business do you do???? i know in france stanford is very popular, more so than harvard in many instances. and i have trouble believing that anyone in china or india has heard of harvard but not MIT. are these educated people?</p>
<p>I am from India and Harvard does have a reputational edge over YPS over here (i have never disputed that) Harvard is considered (and has rightly been in the past) the college where the richest indian business family and politicians send their kids. So there is this certain awe about it.
MIT and Oxbridge also have good reputation but it is more in line with where all the smartest kids from India go.
The reason for this weird impression is because a. a large % of the Indians feel that if you are smart, you should go into engineering/medicine (hence MIT) b. British education system is highly regarded (hence Oxbridge) c. only the rich kids in India can afford to be involved in ECs that most of the ivy leagues are looking for.</p>
<p>Interesting note on similar lines:
a. Prime Minister of India - Oxbridge grad economist
c. Richest person from India - Stanford grad
d. Joint owners of the largest publicly traded co. - 1 is Wharton and another is Stanford</p>
<p>what i think many ppl keep on missing out on is that the best quality students' intake does not necessarily transpire into the best quality alumni and graduates. if that was the case than the world would have never faced the pain of enron, junk bond scandal, etc. etc. coz many of those found guilty did graduate from some of the most reputed colleges, however didnt represent those colleges well..</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>i know in france stanford is very popular, more so than harvard in many instances. and i have trouble believing that anyone in china or india has heard of harvard but not MIT. are these educated people?<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Yes, these are educated people - scientists working in biotech R&D. Three of the four of them have Ph.D. degrees. And they have subsequently heard of other US schools. We were practically sitting in the shadow of UCSD as we dined. But they were remembering what they knew back in the old country as they were growing up and going to college themselves, not what they have heard of since then. I think they were to some extent also expressing what they estimated to be the knowledge/opinion of their families or "the man on the street" back home.</p>
<p>From the Detroit News, for example:</p>
<p>Headline:</p>
<p>"Harvard 'brand' is still No. 1 in academic world</p>
<p>Gulf separating the storied institution from the rest in terms of reputation remains enormous, experts contend."</p>
<p>abcdefghijklm, I think you need to accept the fact that Harvard is widely recognized as the pinnacle of higher education. There is no point fighting this opinion because that is what the everyday man or woman thinks. </p>
<p>I agree with your point of view that does not necessarily mean that it is the very best university in the world. That is why people who are more knowledgeable about colleges or college admissions dispute the claim. Nevertheless, public perception is that there is Harvard and then there is everything else, no matter where in the world you go.</p>
<p>I believe I've acknowledged the opinion of the "everyday man or woman" to be as you state. But you acknowledge the difference in opinion of those who actually know what they're talking about. Why then, is it not appropriate to believe the masses <i>should</i> think otherwise?</p>
<p>I believe you should fight popular opinion on any subject if it is clearly incorrect. Or in this case, at a minimum, incomplete.</p>
<p>Stanley N. Katz was my Harvard alumni interviewer. Knowing him personally, he has a great deal of Crimson pride in his alma mater.</p>
<p>With good reason! And in tune with "the masses" apparently.</p>
<p>In my opinion, Harvard is a great university with a high degree of diversity - the brightest people from around the world enter the insitution as ambitious, hardworking students and step out of the university as successful, unique individuals. Now, the same goes for other well known universities as well; however, one cannot ignore the number of presidents, scientists, and prominent people who graduated from Harvard. Harvard really knows how to recruit the finest people who they know would perform extraordinary deeds in the future. That's one of the main reasons why Harvard University is so well known among other lands.</p>
<p>This is from the same article that Byerly quotes: </p>
<p>"The Ivies and other A-league schools have a lot of prestige because they're supposed to open doors and lead to successful careers. But people who believe that are fighting the last war," said Loren Pope, author of "Colleges that Change Lives," a book that extols the virtues of small liberal arts colleges. "Parents who expect the Ivies to ensure their kids' success are going to be disappointed. The old-boy network isn't much good in an economy like this; it's competence that counts."
<a href="http://www.detnews.com/2005/schools.../A04-210136.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.detnews.com/2005/schools.../A04-210136.htm</a></p>
<p>I wonder, is Byerly making millions of dollars as a Harvard grad? Is Northstarmom?</p>
<p>You don't HAVE to make millions just because you graduated from Harvard. I tend to look past that. I've encountered numerous Harvard graduates who aren't millionaires, but they have more than enough and they possess extraordinary personalities and stunning intellectual minds. In other words, there is almost an "aura" that you can feel when around them even before you find out that they came from Harvard (at least that's the case for me anyways).</p>
<p>About the quote that you posted, collegeperson12, I think Byerly was trying to make the point that children do not have to attend brand name institutions in order to succeed in the real world. There are lots of parents out there who think that, but it's actually all dependent how the individual applies him or herself. Harvard is such a great school because it recognizes hard-working, ambitious people who are almost guaranteed to succeed in the future.</p>
<p>And Harvard is not the only place that welcomes extraordinary individuals... other prominent institutions also do that, and that's why they're so well known!</p>