<p>I know kind of everyone is going to want to battle me on this one. I just feel like people on this forum stress way too much about the difference between a, say, 680 and a 750. Is it seriously that detrimental to have the lower score? Especially if it's only in one subject? I know two kids from my school who had somewhere in the 1800's and got into NYU (one also got into Colby and Middlebury), and another friend had 21-- and got into Stanford, Brown, Bowdoin, UCLA, UC Berkeley, and more. They all just had awesome (but not revolutionary) extracurriculars. He had a 660 in math. </p>
<p>Sure this post is in defense of my one or two bad SAT scores, but I'm also just genuinely curious. Do we have support to show that those ~50 or so points are truly this significant, when the rest of the application is pretty spectacular?</p>
<p>all the same, i'd have to say that the general cc obsession with SAT scores is overdoing it a little bit. the scores definitely matter, but they aren't the only thing that matters, as the experiences of drums's friends points out. they are the thing that's most easily quantified in an admissions package, which probably accounts for the board's obsession.</p>
<p>I think this forum puts too little emphasis on SATs and GPAs and more importance on ECs (than is necessary). Even though this is ancedotal, pretty much everyone at my high school who had great GPAs and great SATs went Ivy or Ivy comprable if they so wished. Even kids with lower GPAs but great SATs saw quite a bit of success (though not as much) I think this forum over reacts on the ECs (look at the common app they only have like 7 spaces for ECs) and the intangible stuff. While it is important, High SATs and High GPAs generally results in admissions to competitive schools.</p>
<p>you make a good point, fred. ec's aren't all you need, either.</p>
<p>i can only speak from my own experience and the experiences of people i've known (which is extensive but by no means definitive). i had sky-high SATs, all IB/AP classes, a high GPA, and lots of high-quality EC's that got me state- and national-level recognition. i didn't get into harvard or brown (though i did make it into some other selective programs, no ivies for me). my brother had a perfect SAT score, the same course load i did, a 5.0 (out of 5.0) gpa, and didn't get into princeton.</p>
<p>the bitter part of me says it's because we're middle-class white males with no connections. but that's really not right. we didn't get in because there just aren't enough spots for all qualified candidates, and some qualified candidates aren't gonna make it. that's all. we just didn't get lucky.</p>
<p>so it isn't that high scores guarantee the ivies, or that ec's do. it's that <em>nothing</em> can guarantee you an ivy. there are X spots available, 1000X applicants, and about 9 people to review all the applications. mistakes will be made. nothing is a sure thing.</p>
<p>Like it or not, there is a high positive correlation between high test scores and success in college. I am not saying that all people with perfect scores will be successful or that people with low scores can't be successful. That is just what the data shows, and colleges are interested in taking kids that will be able to give large sums of money back to the university down the road. It sucks.</p>
<p>@ivy--good point. but i see a lot of people who think that a high SAT score is gonna guarantee them something. it may be a huge help, and it may get you in the door, but it's not a guarantee. still, you're right--it can't just be coincidence that the ivies have pretty narrow SAT score ranges at the top of the scale.</p>
<p>@fred--we both went to UF. they offered us full scholarships plus a lot of money on top of it because we were both nat'l merit scholars. at the time, i was disappointed. i really wanted to go to the university professors program at BU and work with saul bellow and elie wiesel--i got in there, but it would have been over 70k a year, all told. in the end i had to go where i could afford.</p>
<p>but, now that i have the benefit of a few years of hindsight, and i can see what happened to the people in my high school class who went to more prestigious schools, i can say that UF is one of the best things that ever happened to me. i had some great classes, some great teachers, and zero debt at graduation. because UF gave me so many credits for my high school work, i had a latitude i could never have found at BU. i discovered interests like russian, fencing, an linguistics. it changed my life.</p>
<p>and this is something i always try to get people to realize: college is going to surprise you, no matter how much you plan for it.</p>
<p>one more thing--UF bent over backwards to have us around. we got first picks for all class registrations, specially reserved counselors, all kinds of stuff. it worked out great.</p>
<p>this site has a obsession with perfection, a 750 is like failing to many</p>
<p>a 3.8 gpa is failing</p>
<p>most colleges accept most kids, most kids find good matches</p>
<p>there are some difficult schools to get into, and at that "level" it is a luck of the draw kind of thing-timing, reader, how many are just like you, etc</p>
<p>At the same time, you have to remember thousands of kids apply to the same schools as you do. Therefore, although locally it may seem your scores are decent for the schools you're applying to, they might actually be mediocre for your schools.</p>
<p>CC helps put into perspective the competition at the national level, not just those at your school.</p>
<p>xitammarg, I got into Harvard, went, and am now paying back a ridiculous amount of money. I agree that getting in is largely luck (after a certain point, that is; I had the nat'l recognition and the sky-high SATs too). I think your outlook is pretty spot on and your decision to go to UF was wise. That's not to say I regret my own decision: just that it had both pros and cons, and that it didn't change my life nearly as much as I expected. It certainly didn't make up for all my past mistakes or somehow validate my life up to that point (as I so naively felt like it would when I was 17).</p>
<p>I know a number of students who got into Ivies and chose to go elsewhere, and I don't think any of them regret it. I know more people who regret having gone to Harvard instead of the less selective school where they really felt at home. That's not to say that a super-selective school is always a bad choice: just that there's not enough focus on fit.</p>
<p>For those students who do want to attend extremely competitive Ivy League schools, however, it's pretty well documented that top-top SAT scores do help you (even when compared to pretty good scores).</p>
<p>So the question is not so much, "Will the 770 instead of the 710 help me get into an Ivy League school?" The answer to that is, yes, it definitely will (although--as you pointed out, xitammarg--it may be necessary but insufficient). The question is, "Am I hoping that getting a 770 instead of a 710 will change my life, and what evidence do I have to suggest that it can?"</p>
<p>yeah, i might could get into an ivy, but have no interest in going to one. (will i get shot or something for saying that?) It's all about how colleges fit with you and in my case, UF and UVA are MUCH more appealing than a "prestigious" northern school. Plus, it's really cold up there. And, SAT scores matter, but that's not all. Just try and be happy with that.</p>
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[quote]
I think this forum puts too little emphasis on SATs and GPAs and more importance on ECs (than is necessary). Even though this is ancedotal, pretty much everyone at my high school who had great GPAs and great SATs went Ivy or Ivy comprable if they so wished. Even kids with lower GPAs but great SATs saw quite a bit of success (though not as much) I think this forum over reacts on the ECs (look at the common app they only have like 7 spaces for ECs) and the intangible stuff. While it is important, High SATs and High GPAs generally results in admissions to competitive schools.
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<p>Well said. The reality ship has just docked.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think this forum puts too little emphasis on SATs and GPAs and more importance on ECs (than is necessary). Even though this is ancedotal, pretty much everyone at my high school who had great GPAs and great SATs went Ivy or Ivy comprable if they so wished. Even kids with lower GPAs but great SATs saw quite a bit of success (though not as much) I think this forum over reacts on the ECs (look at the common app they only have like 7 spaces for ECs) and the intangible stuff. While it is important, High SATs and High GPAs generally results in admissions to competitive schools.
[/quote]
This is a great post. I fully agree with you. People who say SATs and GPA are not as important as ECs are just being delusional.</p>