@intparent good point. It is weird to me that UChicago says it practices such holistic admissions, yet test scores are so important.
I suspect they see higher test score averages as key in closing the gap with Yale in the rankings. So they reward it.
@intparent do you think UChi wil surpass Yale this fall?
Probably not. They have been busting their tails to do so every since Nondorf was put in charge of admissions in 2009 (he is a former Yale admissions person). They have gotten pretty close, and he clearly wants to make it happen. But that is a pretty tough mountain to climb. It has been interesting to watch, that is for sure.
U Chicago will never break into the the top four. Their rise is based on a very cynical planned strategy by the new administration. It’s in a poor location and didn’t get it’s “where fun goes to die nickname by accident”. A fine school but nothing like HPYS for many many reasons.
@SAY interesting. I always thought it was equal, but I have always wanted to look into it further. Aren’t Yale and Harvard in locations that are not the most desirable as well?
Harvard and Stanford arguably have the best locations of all schools. Princeton is also nice but in a NJ suburb. New Haven isn’t much except Yale but the area around the school is very nice. U of C is in a somewhat dicey area of Chicago(NU downtown campus is in the nice area). All of these are D1 schools with Stanford among the top in the country. U of C is D3. All four of these have been the world standard for many years. U of C is great school with many Nobel Winners but had a 40% acceptance rate 10 years ago and has been historically known to attract bright quirky students. It is a great school but it’s acceptance rate reflects the policy of active recruitment of applications rather than being truly a peer of HPYS.
http://www.personalcollegeadmissions.com/getting-in/the-great-success-of-the-university-of-chicago
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Post edited; tables don’t really work here, but the info I deleted is in the link.
Thanks for staying on topic, guys. 
Well, if UC knocks Yale off, someone looking for prestige would care, right?
@intparent UChi is prestigious to me!
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Please take any non-val/sal discussion to a new thread. The prestigiousness of Chicago has nothing to do with the original post.
The sad truth is that most val/sal will not be admitted to any of these schools
I don’t see why that is “sad”. It isn’t like there are only five good schools in the country. There are many, many more schools that provide a great education and can help any val/sal reach their career goals. Vals & sals are likely to have excellent choices, and likely get some great scholarship money along the way if that is an important criteria for their search.
I didn’t mean five schools but rather all the elite schools. Being a val or sal is vastly overshadowed by URM, athletic recruits, legacy, or other skills. Once past 4.2 or 4.3 and 2200 it’s the other things that matter to gain admission. The vast majority of admits to the top schools have virtually the same stats as the val/sal’s which is why it means so little.
The ironic/stupid thing about the pursuit of val is that (for high schools that weight) you can end up with a higher GPA by maximizing the number of AP classes, while minimizing the number of “regular” classes. So, if you add a “regular” class to your schedule in a given school year, you can end up with a lower GPA than someone that skipped the “regular” class and took a free period instead. This obviously conflicts with the admirable goal (stated by many adcoms) of pushing yourself academically by taking the most challenging curriculum.
Bottom line: those that have taken the most rigorous course load don’t always end up with the highest weighted GPA (and val recognition), even if they make all As through high school.
@whatisyourquest I think that my school took that into account because we are only ranked based on core classes (English, Math, Science, Social Studies, Language) rather than any added electives.
Would anyone even know they are val at time of application? My D’s high school just announced who was val a month ago, and graduation is next week.
It’s foolish to say that being Val/Sal isn’t valuable, because it shows relative performance against a peer group. Private schools tend to have (self selected) higher levels of competition, so their Val/Sal’s will get a bigger benefit. College admissions folks know an amazing amount about high schools. I would look at where the kids a few years older get accepted. If the last few valedictorians were accepted at highly selective schools, it’s a good sign. If nobody in a few years has gone to an ivy…you may face challenges.
Nowhere for the schools mentioned in this thread will being Val/Sal alone get you accepted.
Interviews, recommendations, essays, and EC’s all need to support the person behind the grades. Being an athlete, an actor in the school play, a member of the robotics team and model UN…all of it matters. That said, being the top of your class is a great achievement, and can only help you.
but @EyeVeee – true but only to an extent. Being a superior student is what matters. The fact that no one else has a better academic record than you at the snapshot when Val/Sal is determined is simply luck. That’s why most colleges place so little emphasis on this “honor” and I always advise students not to chase being #1 for the title alone. Chase being the best – if that means #1 or #2, great. If it means #10 and you’re authentic, even better. In my magnet HS, it was clear that our val was academically off the charts. She never tried to best us – she was simply better. She never made a big deal of it and neither did we. We were happy she got those well-deserved honors. She accepted a full ride scholarship to a local public Uni and appeared to be happy and content. Many others applied to other more well known schools, for what that’s worth, and had no problems either. I was 10th or 12th in my class but the only one to get into an HYP.
@T26E4 — whole heartedly agree with your points. There is some gaming that often takes place in pursuit of the honor that is counterproductive (for example not taking a “regular” class where a 4.0 is the highest weighting available vs. taking a study hall).
That said, your getting into a highly selective school wouldn’t have been harmed by being valedictorian…but as you point out its a very minor item in a much bigger discussion.