does W&L not like Cubans?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Washington & Lee University
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<p>Hello:</p>

<p>My son is a National merit winner; he was accepted at more selective schools wait listed a W&L. Is W&L anti-Latin or anti-Cuban? Are they trying to shed the image of a conservative school? We applied because of their small size, excellent Hx as a great small liberal arts school with non-radical politics but now I wonder? Maybe his essay about being a refugee from a communist regime didn't sit well with a liberal admissions person or do they really not want people of color? I hear this happened to another female Cuban American applicant this year, any views out there?</p>

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<p>That is a ridiculous statement. W&L is not anti-Latin, anti-Cuban or anti-anyone for that matter. On the contrary, they have been working hard for the past years to improve diversity. Just because two Cuban applicants were not accepted, does not mean that there is any anti-Cuban stance in admissions. Plenty of people of all nationalities were waitlisted and rejected this year, W&L received a ridiculous amount of applicants. I don't know where else your son applied but the selectivity of those schools THIS year might be different than you expect and I doubt that all his applications were the same or that the colleges were all looking for the same people.</p>

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<p>I'm sorry if I offended you but I know of three people affected (including my son) who are cuban/latin and were wait listed at W&L and accepted at Princeton(1) and Stanford(2). It was just a question. every school accepts and rejects on their own selection process, it is an in-exact science. Guess I hit a nerve, sorry I wouldn't be asking if I didin't think well of the school. Are you a parent? alum? or involved/part of W&L?</p>

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<p>I'm a freshman at W&L and a full SIXTH of my fraternity, including our last president, are not only Latin but consider a Latin American country their hometown (from Mexico to Argentina). </p>

<p>Talking about the people who were accepted at Princeton/Stanford:
a. They may not have been as excited about W&L as Stamford/Princeton and it showed in their apps, specifically in their essays.
b. W&L had to be extremely selective this year because of the huge amount of apps. They were just not what the ad com was looking for at that point. The reasons for admissions decision are far beyond my knowledge or anyones guesses outside of the committee itself.</p>

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<p>Sidarthur, it saddens me to hear about your son being wait-listed at Washington and Lee. I’m quite familiar with W&L, and I am <em>certain</em> that your son's being Cuban would in no way have been held against him in the admissions process--his being Cuban would actually be considered an <em>advantage.</em> W&L is actually trying hard to increase its percentage of students of color. </p>

<p>Also, I don’t think his essay topic could possibly have been a problem (although I feel even <em>more</em> certain that being Cuban can't be the problem!) W&L still values freedom of thought and of speech. Students from all points on the political spectrum speak their opinions freely. Your son’s experience as a refugee would in fact elicit respect and empathy from everyone I’ve known at W&L </p>

<p>I wonder if there could have been some hitch in the application--like a missing letter of recommendation or some missing test scores. I suggest calling or emailing admissions to ask if anything was amiss with the application. (Personally, I would also make sure to mention the highly-selective schools to which he was admitted…..it’s certainly a significant factor in your perplexity.) I’ve also sent you a private message with some additional thoughts. Hope this helps.</p>

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<p>Sidarthur, one other thought: Dima made a good point when he talked about showing interest. I've certainly gotten the impression over the years that W&L <em>highly</em> values an applicant's willingness to come for an interview. Even though the interview is technically "optional", I think skipping it would be a serious detriment to one's application. If your son didn't realize that in time, he could indicate strong interest even now, if that is still his inclination. W&L is a great school, and people do sometimes get admitted off the waitlist!</p>

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<p>Congratulations to you and all the other (accepted, current and past) W&L students (of all types). I hope that my limited English did not skew my title, questions or replies so to render a false impression. As I sometimes joke with friends "I write with a Spanish accent.... in 5 languages".
My observations are my own and I have only my own sphere (as do you) to rely upon. It appeared (to me as a Mom) that something was "amiss" when 3 applicants I personally know of (who just happen to be Cuban/Latin) where Wait listed when excepted to putatively “more selective" schools. I never for an instant thought it was an issue of "color" per se I thought it was the right leaning stance they exhibited.</p>

<p>There are forces that wish W&L to be the "Williams of the south" ( look the source of that quote if you have a moment)</p>

<p>In retrospect; the title to my originating message could be construed as somewhat inflammatory. Perhaps you can appreciate my (perhaps heightened) sensitivity to what appears to be a pattern (even if it is just a coincidence).</p>

<p>"Que la esclavitud se proscriba para siempre y lo mismo la distinción de castas, quedando todos iguales, y sólo distinguirá a un americano de otro el vicio y la virtud…Que en la nueva legislación no se admita la tortura”</p>

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<p>sidarthur, I apologize for the heatedness of the initial reaction I had to your post. I hate the "rich white southern kid" stereotype W&L has and try to fight it whenever I can, it becomes a horrible circle where the lack of diversity and the stereotype leads to minorities shying away which means the problem isnt solved so easily - that is why I felt insulted reading just the title of your thread. Luckily we are getting better though. Unfortunately we are far from ideal.</p>

<p>I'm from NYC, my public elementary, junior, and senior high schools were about 42, 38, and 45% white, respectively, and those were mostly middle class (real middle class - not W&L's definition of middle class which I sometimes think is a three-figure income) immigrants. Coming down to W&L was very much a shock for me in that department. Its why I feel so comfortable in my fraternity - the most diverse on campus.</p>

<p>I've heard that quote before - but I am embarassed to say I'm not sure what it means (the Williams quote, not the Morelos) - as I don't know much about Williams, would you mind explaining the source and meaning, please?</p>

<p>But again, going back to admissions - you never know the reasons, though often I wish they could print them in rejection/waitlist letters. Unfortunately, they don't and we can only wonder. Best of luck to your son!</p>

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<p>A three figure income? Don't you mean six?</p>

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<p>i meant three figures before the comma . . . which is six all total indeed (man i feel dumb now)</p>

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<p>My son is Latino (born in S. America) and was just admitted with a scholarship. He met several other admitted Latino high school seniors at W & L when he visited. I don't think 3 people is a large enough number for you to suspect a pattern.</p>

<p>What Dima says is correct. W & L has a reputation for not being diverse, but is working hard to correct that. For their efforts to succeed, people need to give them a chance.</p>

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<p>With seniors applying to 10-20 schools, there have been two obvious results: (a) greatened application pool; and (b) greatened quality of students applying.</p>

<p>To the Ivies and a few other very select schools, this all really does not affect them. But, to the quality LAC's and more so the tier just below them, the increased application pool is more of a hinderance than a help. </p>

<p>W&L looked at your child's application and could see two things: (a) star kid who could get into the elite schools (at least one); and (b) a really small chance of wanting to come to W&L if he got into the other schools -- even just one of the other schools.</p>

<p>If they accepted only the best students, W&L's YIELD numbers would be dismal as many of the best applicants view W&L as a second tier school and they have a good, if not great, chance at getting into a first tier school. </p>

<p>If W&L accepted only the best kids, many of the die hards (who will function just fine at W&L in an academic and social sense) may become estranged as as they are wait listed or even rejected.</p>

<p>So, admissions makes the judgment call. Your kid, they figured, would not go there. Keeping him off the books can be a blessing to all. His not being accepted allows W&L to accept a die hard who otherwise may be rejected as his or her numbers pale to your child's numbers.</p>

<p>That accepted student comes -- yield numbers go up. Your son, who probably would not have gone there even if accepted, is not in the pool of accepted students -- yield numbers stay up. High yield numbers are good numbers in the admissions office. It means admissions chose to accept the kids who wanted to come, and, in turn, faculty should be happy as you have enthusiastic students attending the school -- not a group of kids who view W&L as their safety.</p>

<p>YIELD is the ultimate number -- more so than maybe the SAT.</p>

<p>Whether white, black, yellow or red, your son probably would have been treated the same.</p>

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<p>I don't believe in the yield theory. Why? For one thing, its better for a school to accept a top applicant and do everything to make them get there (money, attention, etc) than to just let them go assuming they won't come. Why give up a chance to get an amazing student? There are plenty of people who got into your so-called Tier One schools (by which youre just saying Ivies) who are at W&L, whether because of money, size, or other attractions. W&L does treat top students differently in one way: they give out merit scholarships to try to draw them away from expensive Ivies.</p>

<p>Secondly, yield means NOTHING. There is very little reason for a school to be crazy about its yield. Search CC forums - these are the kids and parents most obsessed about finding the best school for them - how often do you see them comparing yield numbers? And its not a ranking thing - yield is no longer important in the US News ranking, thus improving yield will do nothing except maybe allow admissions to lightly pat themselves on the back. There is no motivation for raising it.</p>

<p>While "Tufts Syndrome" is still a popular explanation for why top students get rejected at schools they consider to be a lower-tier, it is no longer as widespread - especially at top schools like W&L that can compete with Ivies - especially now that yield does not matter. </p>

<p>Rejecting top applicants to increase yield is now nothing more than a popular rumor and an attempt to explain situations that people can't understand by attempting to read the minds of admissions officers. The only thing that this situation does prove is that W&L is not a safety for anyone.</p>

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<p>sidarthur, Father makes some good points. However, since my son had v. good stats, was also a National Merit finalist, took a ton of AP's, etc. and was accepted to several Ivies, there must have been something else beyond yield protection. If your son had a great application then maybe it was the interest factor as a_Placefortruth suggested. Despite being from the NE, my son did visit W&L.</p>

<p>Anyway, if your son was accepted to more "selective schools as you say, why do you care?</p>

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<p>Father of the Boarder, you wrote: "(b) a really small chance of wanting to come to W&L if he got into the other schools -- even just one of the other schools."</p>

<p>I disagree with at least this part of your analysis. Many of the students I've known at W&L could have gone to Ivies had they so desired. Numerous students <em>do</em> turn down "top-ranked schools" to attend W&L. (By the way, I believe W&L's own USNews rank would be even higher if a certain amount of prejudice against the south didn’t skew the “reputation” rankings!) </p>

<p>It didn't surprise me that a relative of mine with a 1600 on the old SAT (taken only one time, early in the junior year), 5's on all seven AP exams, SAT-IIs of 800, 800, 790 etc. chose to go to W&L. She's never regretted it for a moment, and her wonderful graduate school offers this spring attest to the quality of her W&L education. </p>

<p>For that matter, I've talked with a couple of W&L students with siblings at Harvard who have commented that they are receiving a <em>much</em> better education at W&L than their Ivy sibs. Subjective? Yes. But very interesting.</p>

<p>Some people in the Northeast apparently have trouble believing that many students would actually <em>prefer</em> a more politically balanced school such as W&L. The same people also seem baffled that anyone could actually prefer the South to New England. (I'm not referring to any particular individual, nor to comments posted on the W&L forum, but I've noticed this general sort of "regional arrogance" in comments on <em>other</em> CC forums.) I myself didn't move to the South till I was 29, but it only took me a few years to realize that I wanted to spend the rest of my life there.</p>

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<p>If I were on the Ad Com and playing the "yield game" as Father of the Boarder suggests, why would I outright reject an otherwise admissable candidate for fear that they would not attend? Instead, I would wait-list the candidate, and then admit him or her off the wait list only when assured the candidate would in fact attend.</p>

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<p>I think some of you were to harsh and misread Dima's perspective. Sure, she could be way off base, but my impression is that Dima feared that her son's profile was viewed by W&L admissions folks as "a conservative, right-wing anti-Castro Cuban," and therefore, an adcom person with a "liberal bias" may intellectually dismiss the son's candidacy, since W&L had (may still have) a reputation for being quite conservative. Many W&L is assertively trying to change this. I think Dima's original point had less to do with ethnicity and more to do with politics.</p>

<p>And one more thing while we're discussing ethnicity. For all you Anglos/Gringos/Yanquis, while there is a substantial proportion of Cubans with African heritage, most Cubans are caucasians! In fact, many Cuban Americans are only a few generations removed from Franco's Spain.</p>

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<p>Oops. I Should have said 'MAYBE W&L is assertively trying to change...'</p>

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<p>can we all please boycott this thread? the claim that w&l "doesn't like cubans" is absurd, irresponsible, and intellectually dishonest. there are more important things to discuss.</p>