Doesn't add up

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cal Poly San Luis Obispo
41

<p>I guess the bottom line really is, that we don’t know how ANY college or university really makes their admission decisions. In the case of the Ivies, almost ALL of their applicants are over qualified, and sometimes I think they throw the applications up in the air and just pick a few randomly out of the pile! I also think that private schools totally cherry pick their freshman class by geography, sex, major, interests - so the school can potentially get the exact mix they want. Privates are completely secret about all of this. Public schools offer much much more information about admission statistics, in general, than do private schools. With the budget crisis, I am not sure I really want my tax dollars spent on admission transparency. I would rather money went to instruction and education spending. And, no matter how transparrent an admissions process is, there will probably always be qualified kids who don’t get in. There are always more “popular” schools that are attractive to kids, and their parents, that are tougher to get into, simply because they get a lot of applications. Probably a good chunk of Cal Poly’s rejects could get into Cal Poly Pomona, UC Riverside, Merced, Santa Cruz. </p>

<p>The whole college admission process is not fair, but then neither is life.</p>

42

<p>Accoding to the 2008 Fact Book, <a href=“http://www.calpoly.edu/~inststdy/factbook/fbfall08.pdf[/url]”>http://www.calpoly.edu/~inststdy/factbook/fbfall08.pdf&lt;/a&gt; , only 25% of applicants to the College of Liberal Arts were offered admission, and only 25% of those actually enrolled. CLA accepts a lower percent of applicants than engineering or architecture. 76% of the new freshmen enrolled in CLA (2008) were female. But Cal Poly has lots of imbalance by gender. The College of Engineering had more that 85% males as newly enrolled freshmen, so I don’t know if they really try to balance by gender. Gender is never stated as part of their selection criteria.</p>

<p>I think more likely the difference between 3down’s son being admitted for Poly Sci and twodown’s daughter not being accepted is the slight difference in SAT score. Cal Poly weights that pretty heavily, and 3down’s son had 1410 (CR+M) which is in about the 97th percentile. </p>

<p>It seems as though Cal Poly has become VERY competitive especially now with all the budget constraints and the sharp increases in price of the UC’s.</p>

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<p>Correction to post above ^. CLA accepts a lower percent of applicants than Engineering or AGRICULTURE, about the same percentage as Architecture (25%).</p>

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<p>3down, congratulations to your son. He has excellent stats and is deserving. Maybe gender was a factor … if so, that would have been good to know in advance … somehow I doubt it. I tend to think the SAT score is the difference.</p>

<p>I also suspect at some point in the process the Admissions Committee (or the computer) makes an educated guess as to how likely it is that the applicant WILL ACTUALLY ACCEPT an offer of admission. It simply doesn’t make sense for a school like Cal Poly to offer admission only to the very highest qualified applicants because most of those applicants will not be accepting the offers. A telling statistic would be how many accepted applicants actually choose to attend CSUSLO. 3down, does your son plan to attend, or has he gotten other offers?</p>

<p>And why so many well-qualified applicants were simply rejected, and not even wait-listed, remains a mystery.</p>

<p>I will say again, the entire process could benefit from greater transparency. This should not be like selecting a pope. I have no problem with private schools making their decisions however they want. But when it comes to public schools, funded with public money, there should be no secrecy whatsoever.</p>

45

<p>3down, congratulations to your son. Perhaps gender does play a role. If so, that would have been good to know in advance.</p>

<p>I suspect at some point in the process the Admissions Committee (or the computer) makes an educated guess as to how likely it is that the applicant WILL ACTUALLY ACCEPT an offer of admission. It simply doesn’t make sense for a school like Cal Poly to offer admission only to the very highest qualified applicants because most of those applicants will not be accepting the offers. A telling statistic would be how many accepted applicants actually choose to attend CSUSLO. And why were so many well-qualified applicants simply rejected, and not even wait-listed?</p>

<p>I will say again, the entire process could benefit from greater transparency. This should not be like selecting a pope. I have no problem with private schools making their decisions however they want. But when it comes to public schools, funded with public money, there should be no secrecy whatsoever.</p>

46

<p>“It simply doesn’t make sense for a school like Cal Poly to offer admission only to the very highest qualified applicants because most of those applicants will not be accepting the offers.”</p>

<p>Admissions Statistics College of Liberal Arts First-Time Freshmen</p>

<p>---------------Fall 2004 Fall 2005 Fall 2006 Fall 2007 Fall 2008
Applicants -------5,524— 5,943---- 6,855— 7,720— 8,528
Selected--------- 1,381— 2,008---- 2,357— 2,458— 2,150
Selection Rate---- 25.0%-- 33.8%— 34.4%— 31.8%-- 25.2%
Enrolled------------ 362 — 557------ 528----- 624----- 539
Yield------------- 26.2% —27.7% —22.4%— 25.4%-- 25.1%</p>

<p>From 2004 through 2008 the Yield rate for CLA has been pretty consistent (from 22.4 - 27.7 percent). So I’m sure the admissions folks make an educated guess that approximately 25% of those admitted will enroll in CLA. So they most likely offer admission the top NX4 applicants where N = the number of spaces they have.</p>

47

<p>I made exactly the same point as Ralph (with fewer numbers…) on the “reject overqualifed applicants” thread.</p>

48

<p>I was fully prepared for my daughter not to be admitted to Cal Poly, just as I will be if she doesn’t get accepted to the three UCs she applied to, as well as USC and Stanford. As it turns out, Cal Poly chose her, as it did thousands of other kids. If it hadn’t—well, those are the breaks.</p>

<p>For one thing, I know with the budget cuts, the public schools just aren’t able to admit everyone who is qualified. I have no idea how they end up choosing who they do or if some of it’s a crapshoot. A parent or kid could go on and on all day about their excellent stats, so why were they rejected??? Well, the point is, they simply cannot take everyone. Again, I’m not sure what they base their final criteria on. Test scores? GPA? ECs? Location? Gender? Nationality? Or maybe that particular admissions person was having a bad or good day. Maybe he or she likes the name Andrew or Rebecca. So those two were lucky to squeeze in that day. Who knows. ;)</p>

<p>I DO know that my daughter has put her heart and soul into her last 3½ years of high school and has the grades to show for it. But, how many other kids have done the same? LOTS and LOTS! And, many have much higher scores than she does. So for a place like Cal Poly who doesn’t get to know an applicant by reading their unique essays or have teachers’ recommendations to help them make a choice…we have to rely on them to make sense out of the NUMBERS. Don’t ask me what their formula is or if much of it is computer-generated. But, I know for a fact that there is just no way they can offer admission to every qualified applicant. One thing similar between the CSUs and UCs is the a-g requirement. They seem to have more of a formula then the private schools. Some might believe Stanford takes every kid who has a 2400 SAT and a crazy-high GPA. Not so. That’s where an essay or exceptional ECs can make an applicant shine even if his or her numbers aren’t sky-high. Unfortunately, kids aren’t given that opportunity at the CSUs. At least the UCs look at the personal statement.</p>

<p>Anywaaaay, my point is, if my daughter isn’t accepted by all of her last 5 schools, I’ll understand that they just can’t take everyone. Doesn’t mean she’s “not good enough”. For some reason, they just happened to feel another student would fill that place better. Or maybe not. They could have just said eenie-meenie-minie-mo. Either way, I know that at least 5 colleges liked her enough to admit her. And, yes, I’m pleased that Cal Poly was one of them. But, if it hadn’t, I surely wouldn’t be sitting here trying to figure out why or coming across as someone with sour grapes. We would move on to a school that she WAS accepted to and I bet it would all turn out for the best in the end. I know for a fact that if she isn’t admitted to the three UCs or two remaining private schools, I won’t be posting on those forums asking WHY, why, why??? Or sounding bitter. I’ll probably congratulate the kids who DID get in and then put my energy toward the school she finally ends up going with.</p>

49

<p>I get it, believe me, and no sour grapes here. CPSLO is a good school, and it would have been nice for our daughter to have the option of attending, but she has other options. She may not even have chosen to attend (her older sister was accepted several years ago but ended up going elsewhere).</p>

<p>My question really is with admissions process per se, which I now get the impression no one outside of the university fully understands. Kids who are accepted attribute it, as they should, to their excellent stats. But those who aren’t - despite similar objective stats - are expected to just chock it up to that mysterious thing called “the breaks.” These are kids who, like your daughter, put their hearts and souls into their high school years with the expectation that 4 years of hard work would be rewarded.</p>

<p>My point, I suppose, is when something as important as admission to college comes down to a “crapshoot” (as you call it) it runs counter to the merit/reward system that students are taught, and has to erode some of their faith in the system. As you say, in the end, parents and students really have no idea what the final selection was based on. If it was eenie-meenie-miney-moe, ok, at least disclose it. You may feel differently, but I am not sure it speak well of a population that just lets it go and moves on.</p>

50

<p>The word “crapshoot” just seems like a perfect word to describe when the admissions people have a “line-up” of equally qualified applicants and they have to choose who gets to come through. Again, I have no idea what prompts them to pick one student over another. But, I’m sure they want us to believe that kids are accepted based on merit/reward. And, I have no doubts about that. However, they simply can’t take everyone no matter HOW good their stats are. It’s similar to a job search. There could be 500 excellent candidates, but only one position to fill. I can’t even imagine how a school like Stanford figures out how to accept less than 8% out of a pool of 32,000 qualified applicants. But, at least they have the essays, etc. to help narrow it down.</p>

<p>Again, I have no idea how Cal Poly makes their final decisions. But, isn’t this the same with most colleges? Do they all take the time to explain exactly how they choose one student over an another? I don’t know, maybe they do! This is all new to me. :)</p>

<p>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^</p>

<p>twodownonetogo wrote:</p>

<p>I get it, believe me, and no sour grapes here. CPSLO is a good school, and it would have been nice for our daughter to have the option of attending, but she has other options. She may not even have chosen to attend (her older sister was accepted several years ago but ended up going elsewhere).</p>

<p>My question really is with admissions process per se, which I now get the impression no one outside of the university fully understands. Kids who are accepted attribute it, as they should, to their excellent stats. But those who aren’t - despite similar objective stats - are expected to just chock it up to that mysterious thing called “the breaks.” These are kids who, like your daughter, put their hearts and souls into their high school years with the expectation that 4 years of hard work would be rewarded.</p>

<p>My point, I suppose, is when something as important as admission to college comes down to a “crapshoot” (as you call it) it runs counter to the merit/reward system that students are taught, and has to erode some of their faith in the system. As you say, in the end, parents and students really have no idea what the final selection was based on. If it was eenie-meenie-miney-moe, ok, at least disclose it. You may feel differently, but I am not sure it speak well of a population that just lets it go and moves on.</p>

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<p>Two things that influence admittance are location relative to SLO (supposedly the closer the better) and how they rank your High School.</p>

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<p>gotpeter: Are you aware of any kind of list that shows they rank high schools? That would be very, very interesting to see.</p>

<p>2leashes: I hear you. There has to be some way of deciding between two candidates who are otherwise equally qualified on paper. But how? Who makes the decision? And based on what, when there aren’t even any essays, interviews, or other subjective criteria (supposedly) in the mix? While this is not new to me, frankly I never had any reason to give it much thought before.</p>

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<p>And yet I just read somewhere here that Cal Poly SLO is one CSU who doesn’t use location as part of their admission process. I definitely know most of the other schools do, though, so it would make sense for CPSLO. I’m just going by what I read here. Perhaps schools with more selective admission rates do this? I know SDSU does. I can’t speak for ranking the high schools because I have absolutely no information about that. How did you find out all of the above, gotpeter? I’d be curious.</p>

<p>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
gotpeter wrote:</p>

<p>Two things that influence admittance are location relative to SLO (supposedly the closer the better) and how they rank your High School</p>

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<p>My guess is as good as yours at this point. I never gave it much thought, either. One of my older daughters applied to one school (a safety) because she knew she would be paying for it herself. She based most of her decision on cost of living in the area = cheap. :slight_smile: So, we never had to deal with this. And, as I mentioned earlier, even if our younger daughter isn’t admitted to one or more of her remaining schools, I’m not even sure we’ll question THAT. I know for certain that we won’t with the reaches. :wink:


&lt;p&gt;twodownonetogo wrote:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;2leashes: I hear you. There has to be some way of deciding between two candidates who are otherwise equally qualified on paper. But how? Who makes the decision? And based on what, when there aren't even any essays, interviews, or other subjective criteria (supposedly) in the mix? While this is not new to me, frankly I never had any reason to give it much thought before.&lt;/p&gt;
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<p>Looks like you are correct about location not mattering 2Leashes: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/cal-poly-san-luis-obispo/799924-location-california.html?highlight=high+school+admission[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/cal-poly-san-luis-obispo/799924-location-california.html?highlight=high+school+admission&lt;/a&gt;. My bad.</p>

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<p>It seems to not make sense, especially for Poli Sci. I know for a fact that out of state students are getting extra preference over in state right now. My son was just admitted to Engineering, out of state.</p>

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<p>Hi Cindy, how do you know out of state students are getting a preference? Did Admissions or Engineering tell that to you son?</p>

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<p>Is it that they are getting extra preference or that the cash-strapped state schools are now just admitting MORE OOS as a way to bring higher tuition money in? I’m not sure if they would actually turn down THAT many in-state students, would they? I’m sure they have a quota to meet, but at the same time, it only seems fair to admit the qualified kids whose tax dollars help support the school. </p>

<p>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</p>

<p>cindyshurtleff wrote:</p>

<p>It seems to not make sense, especially for Poli Sci. I know for a fact that out of state students are getting extra preference over in state right now. My son was just admitted to Engineering, out of state.</p>

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<p>2Leashes and gotpeter;</p>

<p>Check out posts #19 ( and the second link) and #22 in this thread.</p>

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<p>Actually, SDSU announced this fall that they would no loner give locals a hand-up.</p>