<p>Last year I lived overseas and took this site quite seriously: I believed that admission to top schools was nigh but impossible for all but a few wunderkinds.
But this year, early admissions results from my (public school) friends seems to indicate otherwise: kids in at Rice, William and Mary, Princeton and Pomona. All of these kids are bright-ish (some A/many B students, 1300-1400 SATs, comitment to fairly boring extracurriculars) but even the Princeton kid is far from spectacular, compared to many posters on these boards (and he's neither a legacy nor an athlete).
I myself got into UChicago with shoddy, hastily written essays and good but not amazing extracurriculars/grades.
I feel that one could get a very distorted picture from looking at this message board: I had thought that Oberlin was a reach, but now my counselor is telling me that I'll "definitely get into Dartmouth."
I'm trying to say: if you like an ultra-competitive school, go for it. Don't let doubts encouraged by the horror stories and 'what are my chances' threads fool you into thinking you don't have a chance.</p>
<p>One of the students in my graduating class was accepted into Amherst EA/ED with only an 1890 SAT, B-A grade range, and a few EC's. He wasn't a minority, legacy, or athlete recruitment either.</p>
<p>Yeah, there are people who get into these schools with less than stellar stats, but all you have to to is look at each schools admit data to see that if all averages out. For every person that was admitted with a 1900, there was another that had a 2300, and probably one 2300 that was denied alltogether. Even Berkeley, which is not as selective (stats wise) as schools like princeton, yet if you look at their common data set you'll see that were students with 1500 SATs and 4.5 gpas that were denied.</p>
<p>still, you can't say these schools aren't highly selective. I've known quite a few kids from my school with an amazing stats get rejected from Stanford, Princeton, and the likes.</p>
<p>dooit, I don't think bubblewrap is advocating people to slack off because top schools accept a less than average CCer. The person is just saying that people shouldn't be too disillusioned by the forum.</p>
<p>One thing that CC definitely says is that admissions can be unpredictable. Certainly there is the rare and possibly true anecdote about some URM with 4.0/1600 who was denied at all the ivies. Certainly there is the rare and possibly true anecdote about some average guy with a 1150 who got into Harvard. It is very hard to believe these stories, such as it is hard to believe this OP, but "stuff" happens.</p>
<p>The 50% SAT range for Harvard is 1400-1580. That means that 25% of the accepted applicants are 1580+. With that kind of a skewed distribution, it is certain that the median is not higher than 1530. If nothing else we know that 50% of the accepted applicants at Harvard have 1530+. Because the %-accepted is 10%, it is certain that they aren't even taking a large percentage of the applicants who apply with a 1530+. </p>
<p>I hate anecdotes, especially unverified anecdotes. The proper name for them are "urban legends".</p>
<p>It is true that the insanity drops off sharply as you go down the USNWR rankings. By the time you get out of the top 12-15 colleges, things are almost sane about who gets in and who doesn't.</p>
<p>I just realized that writing that my counselor said I'd "definitely get into Dartmouth" sounds a bit pretentious... I didn't mean it that way, and I know nothing's for sure.
to dooit and Pongo:
Of course, people should have safeties and of course, schools discussed here are selective. I'm making a personal observation here, but one that (I think) has merit for everyone who aspires to admissions greatness but lacks stellar credentials.</p>
<p>Thanks for giving me a little bit hope because yes I have seen some people with stellar scores and grades and sometimes I feel like I'am the underdog but in other words if you can dream you can acheive</p>
<p>The idea that "If you can dream, you can achieve." is not something I would want to discourage, but it is not a useful attitude to have when buying a lottery ticket. I would not discourage anyone from applying. I am concerned, though, about putting too much emotional capital into something that could be unlikely and about people who don't understand the true meaning behind the 50% SAT ranges. Perhaps part of my attitude is that I don't really think that getting into an extremely elite college really has much effect on a person's life.</p>
<p>Does anyone else think it is strange that this is the OP's first post???????</p>
<p>Dufus-
Why is it strange that this is my first post? Last year I read posts here but did not sign up because I wanted to prevent myself from becoming overly obsessed with college when there were much more exciting/ worthy things to be doing. Now, applications are in and I've broken under the pressure of waiting and signed up.
I didn't think my post was as wishy-washy as you are implying ("If you can dream, you can achieve"): and as I said, some of my friends had 1400 or so scores, which is good at most places (right?) They just weren't the superhuman-breed of college applicant.</p>
<p>I'd be wary of any GC who tells a kid that "you will definitely get into Dartmouth." I'm a college counselor and I have never met any student, no matter how stellar, who I could predict would definitely get into ONE particular elite school. I might predict he/she had an excellent chance at a handful of schools, to get into at least one but never would predict a sure bet at an elite school like Dartmouth. Now, my own kid had teachers and GC who also would tell her, "you'll get into ANY school you want." as she was a very qualified candidate in all areas but I know that they simply were not well informed with the status of elite college admissions today where even the most qualified candidate is not a shoo-in at a particular singular school. Often such a candidate is a likely bet at getting into at least one selective school but clearly is not guaranteed to get into any one particular school that is accepting less than 15% of the candidates. I'm sure you are a great candidate but do not COUNT on a school like Dartmouth...you very well may get in but even the stellar candidates can be rejected, so don't be surprised. Do not go into it expecting to get in but have a well balanced list and hopefully one of your reaches may come through. Schools like Dartmouth are to be considered a Reach for anyone, due to the statistical odds. There are more candidates who are highly qualified than slots available at a school such as Dartmouth. NOT getting in, doesn't mean you were not "good enough." If you have what it takes, then likely one selective school will take you but everyone needs matches and safeties, no matter who you are. </p>
<p>Also, I don't agree that you don't have to be outstanding for a place like Princeton. You can be outstanding and still not get in there.</p>
<p>i think that CC has helped push me to another level academically...after seeing on CC what amazing things peers have accomplished i aimed higher and worked harder than ever before...i don't know if it will pay off come april but i think CC has been a positive force in my case</p>
<p>also i wouldn't deceive yourself into thinking that it's easy to get into these schools...EA at stanford a 1590 NMSF captain of three varsity teams got rejected and a 1600 got deferred from my school...these outstanding stats didn't cut it so i don't think average ones would either</p>
<p>
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Why is it strange that this is my first post?
[/quote]
[quote]
All of these kids are bright-ish (some A/many B students, 1300-1400 SATs, comitment to fairly boring extracurriculars) but even the Princeton kid is far from spectacular, compared to many posters on these boards (and he's neither a legacy nor an athlete).
[/quote]
It is not that unusual for people to put fake posts on CC. Perhaps I am being too cynical in thinking that this one is one of them. Such posts normally go something like "Have hope. I am a quite normal person who has a 3.6/1410 and got into Princeton. My recs were okay. At least I don't think that anyone said anything bad about me. I'm actually quite a boring person and my best EC was math club where I'm vice president. I'm not a URM, legacy or athlete."</p>
<p>The competition at the top 10-12 is such that they don't take average applicants. Frankly if they did, why would you want to go there? If they take somebody who looks average (by CC standards), there is a hidden reason. I was posting to someone last week who had something like a 1460 and was encouraging people to be encouraged. After posting a little bit, it turns out that the person had a 800M 660V with close to 800's on the physics, Math 2c, and chemistry SAT II's. </p>
<p>The insane competition does drop off drastically after you get out of the top 10-15 colleges. None of the schools that you mentioned are in the insane category except for Princeton and Dartmouth. Rice is just out of that category. If you match the freshman profile, you can probably expect to get into Rice. At HYP, the median SAT is around 1530 and most of the slots below that are taken up by URM's, legacies, athletes, development cases, VIP's, and people who are unusual in some way but happen to have lower SAT's. They are not just picking out somebody with a 1440 with average EC's, slightly superior recs, and a good essay. In your case, did you notice that you were living overseas last year? That is unusual and colleges would probably like that.</p>
<p>Perhaps the impression on CC is that it is extremely hard to get into the extremely competitive colleges, but it may not be clear what is meant by the "extremely competitive colleges".</p>
<p>Have you checked out the ED/EA threads lately, these ppl on this board have stellar EC, GPA, and SATs, and some were deferred or outrightly rejected. So I'm going to take your words with caution because I have no doubt the application pool outside of CC is just as tough. If not, I'll rather be safe, than take any chances</p>