<p>Many students ask us about EC's. Some think that the more the better while we have told them the importance of being focused on somehting which you are passionate about. Since most of us (parents) live asking the age old question "but do they listen to me?" Todays NYTimes article "Colleges Say Son't Bother to Dabble" stresses the importance of being focused on your EC and not presenting a laundry list of activities. </p>
<p>Save your breath and pass it on</p>
<p>Excellent article, and something I repeat (as a former Ivy interviewer) til I am blue in the face, usually to no avail. As I have often said, my kids didn't even list most of their ECs on their college apps - why even call it "community service" if it is just resume padding? Instead, they listed only the specific ones that connected with their own particular passions, that were deeply integrated into their own interests. As for the rest - they did the hundreds of hours at soup kitchens, etc. ad infinitum for how it made them feel - the colleges never even knew about that work!</p>
<p>In fact, when I saw "laundry lists" as an interviewer, it made me far more likely to give the applicant a much lower rating on the 1-9 scale, especially if I asked about them and their response clearly indicated the didn't give a d__n.</p>
<p>sybbie719,what EC would qualify as being something ure passionate about?
Would something u've been doing for 1 year be ok?</p>
<p>It's not about time - it's about how it connects with your life. For example, if you say you want to eventually get a PhD in marine biology, and you learned navigation etc. and did the Summer at Sea thing, then your volunteer work teaching city kids to sail and look at environmental stuff in a program like Sail the Sounds makes sense. That's just an example, but you see the point?</p>
<p>That said, the above kid (whom I interviewed) had this interest since middle school, not junior year (which always raises suspicions!)</p>
<p>Ok,then can I mention some activities I was doing from grade 3 till grade 10(like classical music) but gave it up later on due to time constraints?</p>
<p>Also,here in India there r not many opportunities for so many diverse activities.Plus,there are almost no positions of leadership positions.In my school,one can only become a president or secretary of I club,however qualified he maybe.Do you think I should mention that in my application?</p>
<p>Voronwe, OK, so can I use my daughter as an example? As an alumni interviewer what would you think of someone like this? Nothing stellar, nothing spectacular. Is it enough? </p>
<p>She rides and cares for her horse 15-20 hours a week - she has competed in rodeo's in the past, but for her it's not about competition, it's about riding the trails out into the mountains by herself. She's trained horses for other people and given riding lessons in summer camps. She's been riding since she was 9.</p>
<p>She has been part of the school's art club for all three years, has taken art classes at our city museum, and spends many hours working on independent art projects. Many of her community service projects have revolved around using art to connect with people - i.e., helping senior citizens do art projects in nursing homes, working with elementary school children on after school art programs, designing and building art displays for church fairs. </p>
<p>She is working with her guidance counselor to try to establish a peer counseling program at her school but it hasn't yet gotten off the ground. Every year for the past five years, she has worked at the Catholic Charities "Christmas store" where low income families can come pick out gifts for their children. </p>
<p>She has been a member of the school's French club throughout high school - she loves French and one of her goals is to study abroad in France in college.</p>
<p>Another thing brought up in that article is how kids are asking if X number of hours is enough community service. This is a question I see on the student forums here a LOT. They talk of how many hours they put in with community service as if this is some requirement (like math) to go to college. This line of thinking was foreign to me until I read these forums. One of my kids did some community service but not oodles of it because she was heavily involved in ECs morning noon and night of another sort...all lifelong activity commitments. She did coach a youth soccer team one season because she wanted to (not for community service purposes) due to the circumstances that one year out of 13 years she was unable to play soccer herself. She also was an assistant teacher at her old elementary school during the school day one semester of senior year, again cause she loves that type of work. But these did not account for huge number of hours and both were line items on her resume, not nearly given much attention compared to her more passionate long term endeavors. I never thought twice about that the hours did NOT add up like some community service lists on these forums. I think what kids on here seem to not realize is that colleges like long term commited activities of ANY sort where the student is engaged actively, might achieve within the activity, perhaps take on some leadership aspect but overall be dedicated to over a long period of time. Kids here tend to zero in on WHAT that activity is and I maintain that it only matters that it is an activity the student is highly interested in and commited to in a significant capacity. It need NOT be community service. </p>
<p>My other kid also has a very full resume and is involved in numerous hours of ECs every afternoon, night and weekend (I don't even want to get into the past 8 days when she was out of the house for 17 hours per day and got home at 1 AM every night from these activities). She has very little community service however, other than that two shows she created (one getting underway today), from which she is devoting all proceeds to charities. I am not concerned at all over how many HOURs of community service the kid puts in. I like the quote by the admissions officer in that article that attests to this. It is not about hours or about doing community service because you "have to". It is about getting engaged in SOME activity the kid is interested in over time and being involved in a significant capacity and perhaps achieving something within that endeavor. The focus on hours or the type of activity, as seen in numerous kids' posts on the forums seems to not get the point as much. </p>
<p>I have also seen kids' activity resumes where an entire page is devoted to community service, yet each "service activity" is like a one or two day thing. I think I could add up about ten entries on any one of these resumes I have read recently of this nature, and add up the hours it took to do the ten entries and it would not come close to ONE entry of ONE regular (not community service) activity that my own kids have as an entry. I'm not talking length of resume as my kids did have a long list of activities but about significance of each activity. A list of ten things that each took a couple days total or even less on some resumes I have read, compared to 7 entries that each involved numerous hours per week over a period of time and also over many years, is what I am talking of. It is not length as much as significance of each endeavor. This notion comes up in my mind when I read posts that have these little community service activities (and total "hours" listed) and also when I read of some school "clubs" that come across as not that significant but more like a meeting once per month, which are not prevalent at our high school. I think some kids think they HAVE to add all these "little" activities to make the list longer. I think the significance of each activity, as well as the level of participation and achievement within those activities, is what matters more than how many you have or exactly WHAT the activity is. I do not think community service trumps other activities like some kids seem to think they have to have. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>I don't understand why anyone feels they should dictate how a student spends his or her time. If they want to do 10 activities for 2 hours each, or if they want to do one activity for 20 hours - it shouldn't matter. Life is life, you do things that you ENJOY. If the passion doesn't come across then so be it.</p>
<p>Carolyn, I am not Voronwe...but having interviewed applicants, I will give you my view of what you wrote about your D. I think she should list ALL the things you just wrote about. However, the two that I would focus on and annotate the most and perhaps even use for one of the essays, the one on "activity"....are the horseback riding and the art activities. The horse back riding is significant and over time and it need not be an organized activity! Also the art stuff is significant in that she has done several things to engage in her interest in art and they all relate. Both of these things are worthy and over time and demonstrate an obvious interest. The other things also count and show some breadth of interest though are not as significant but can be included. They actually are two things she does that contribute or get involved in her school (peer counseling and French). But she should show more about the first two things if you know what I mean. Looks good to me!</p>
<p>I think that the following guidelines represent a must-read for students and parents evaluating their final tally of EC. While the subjective analysis of the UC might be different from other selective schools, it is important to realize that the vast majority of the activities commonly reported by students will -and should- NOT earn any brownie points. Notice how you need THREE items to earn any leadership points and how most activities are excluded. It is amazing how many of the activities that matter little to nothing represent the bulk of the activities listed by students on CC. In my opinion, this is yet another example of the dysfunctional relation between high school counselors and colleges adcom. The chasm between what colleges expect to see from high schoolers and what high schools routinely advise is growing at alarming rates. Most high schools' GC are still listening to ABBA and the Beatles! :) </p>
<p>UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA - EC SCORING GUIDELINES</p>
<p>LEADERSHIP PROMISE: </p>
<p>Leadership promise is measured by an applicant's involvement in extracurricular activities at their school, community or home. Three or more are required.
Points: Three or more leadership roles that demonstrate one's capacity to direct or influence the course of an activity/organization or the action of others -- in activities at school, in the community or at home. Must show consistent participation (i.e., A school year or sport season) or some indication of achievement. Examples:
- Chief or section editor of school newspaper or yearbook
- Team captain
- Section leader in the school band, drum major, conductor
- Director, stage manager or choreographer of a school play
- Student body or class officer
- President or vice president of team/club or volunteer organization
- Representative to the school board, city council or area representative for a community organization
- Mock trial officer or delegate to a regional or larger conference
- Girls/boys state or national delegate
- Model UN head delegate or junior statesman delegate to regional or higher level conference; undersecretary or general secretary
- Leadership role in Girl/Boys Scouts, Sea Scout, Quarter Master
- Life Scout/Silver Award, Eagle Scout/Gold Award (received or in progress)
- 4-H Diamond Star or All-star; 4-H Teen Leader, national conference team member; state ambassador
- Link crew team leader
- Peer trainer or mediator
- Lead person in a major activity, such as a fund-raising drive, cultural activity or tutoring program
- Youth educator in community activities such as Sunday school teacher or coach
- Participation in highly selective leadership program
- Parental role at home as primary care giver or major wage earner
No points
- Member of club, organization or sport team
- Lower officer of non-selective club
- Volunteer for community organization
- Tutor
- Junior Statesman participant
- Future Business Leaders of America
- Model UN participant
- Teaching assistant
- Habitat for Humanity volunteer
- School Accreditation Review Team
- Link Crew member
- Mexicali Missions project volunteer
- 4-H star ranks bronze-gold
- Umpire, referee or lifeguard (unless description in personal statement satisfies leadership definition)</p>
<p>SPECIAL TALENTS AND SKILLS:
A special talent or skill involves substantial participation or exceptional performance in the arts, sciences, languages, athletics, etc. that demonstrates hard work and accomplishment.
Points: Persistent involvement in two activities for 3 years each, resulting in distinguished recognition at the school or higher level or representing outstanding effort and dedication in the community; or long-term involvement in one activity resulting in recognition at the state level or the right to compete at the national level. Examples:
- Debate tournament winner
- Speech or essay contest winner (Forensic awards)
- Dance/music award winner
- Lead in school play
- 1st chair in school band/orchestra or beyond
- Sports -- All league 1st team, athlete of the year, league MVP; state or national
- State or national level championship team
- Academic Decathlon winner
- National Merit semifinalist or finalist
- 4-H Emerald Star; Presentation Day winner in regional or state competition
- FFA champion or reserve champion award
- FFA regional, state or national proficiency awards
- Model UN best delegate
- Mock trial individual award at regional level; team award at state level
- Participation in a highly selective program such as the National Science Foundation Young Scholar's Program, COSMOS, etc.
- Extended involvement or experience in another culture or one's own culture, representing outstanding effort and enabling the student to contribute knowledge to the educational experience. Examples: Proficiency in a language other than English that is used to serve the community or study in non-English speaking communities or countries where the student plans to work. Proficiency in traditional cultural skills and talents.
- Year-round employment or volunteer work of 12+ hours per week where work is skilled and demonstrates responsibility such as writing articles for newspaper, computer programming, Web design, etc.</p>
<p>No points: Continuous involvement in activities but no distinguished recognition is received.
- Continuous long-term music lessons
- Awards for Golden State Academic Exams
- Who's Who
- CSF
- Presidential award for academic and physical fitness
- National Merit commended or scholar
- Model UN commended performance
- Honorable mention awards
- Participation in non-selective summer programs
- Academic decathlon participant
- Recognition for good performance
- Honor roll
- School most valuable player
- Most improved player
- Coach's award
- Varsity letter(s)
- Congressional award
- Member of a championship team unless at state or higher level
- Pages for state or national senate or assembly</p>
<p>PERSONAL DIFFICULTIES & PERSEVERANCE:
This is based on a reading of the personal statement for documentation of the applicant's ability to persist and overcome unusual, seemingly insurmountable difficulties or challenges which may have affected the applicant's ability to achieve full academic potential during middle or high school.
Points
We strongly consider factors over which the student has little or no control and which are inevitably linked to the student's academic achievement. Difficulties and challenges usually involve multiple factors, such as:
- A history of low income
- Adverse home environment
- Unusual family disruption
- Drug, physical and mental abuse
- Unusual medical/emotional problems
- Frequent change of schools (3 or more high schools)
- Lack of exposure to appropriate role models
- Adverse immigration experience within the past five years
- English as a second language
- Assumption of role as primary caretaker of the family
- Unusual disruption in school, residential or tribal community (e.g., long-term school strikes, widespread natural disasters, etc.)
- Active discouragement or severe lack of support from family or school personnel
No points
Isolated events of short duration that have little or no effect on the student's academic development, such as:
- Short-term illness such as a broken leg, flu
- Short-term adverse incidents (e.g., short-term closure of school due to inclement weather, short-term absences from school to care for a family member, etc.)
Situations or circumstances that the student is capable of changing but did not do so.
- Unfocused student
- Dislike of school and teachers
- Elective trips and vacations during the school year
- Elective employment
- Elective community, social, recreational and other extracurricular activities.</p>
<p>MARKED IMPROVEMENT:
Academic record from 9th to 11th grades shows marked improvement in grades or significant shift in academic rigor.
Points
- From having mostly C's or less to B's and A's
- From having mostly C's and B's to almost all A's
- A shift from non-college preparatory course work to college preparatory
- A shift from only college prep to almost all advanced courses such as advanced placement & transferable college courses with B's and A's
No Points
- No change in course work rigor, including shift from college prep to regular honors courses
- No improvement in grades received
- From having mostly C's and B's to almost all B's
- From having mostly A's and B's to almost all A's</p>
<p>Xiggi - super post!!!!</p>
<p>Carolyn - Soozievt said she's not me, but her answer is the exact same one I would have given. And your daughter sounds WONDERFUL!!!</p>
<p>Xiggi...that is an interesting list. One thing I don't get on it, however, is how a student gets no points for being on a varsity sport team. Makes no sense to me. That type of activity, from my experience, often can involve about 17 hours per week and is something done over many years. Two teams my D was on did not even have captains. Yes, she did achieve in her sports, often on the state level but I can't see it not counting to be a member of a varsity sport team that perhaps just got to the regional level, not the state level. The commitment is just as great as if they were state champions. I find that odd on that list. I happen to think it is a very significant activity and when I interview applicants, sometimes three varsity sport athletes who have been engaged in their sports their whole lives, I find that to be significant on their EC "resume" in the interview. So much for what I think, I guess, lol.</p>
<p>Xiggi: This is great information. Thanks for sharing it!</p>
<p>Soozie, a student does earn points for being the Team captain. It is obvious that the guidelines used by UC-Davis discount everything that represent a mere participation (member of clubs) and solely rewards the captain and elected leaders. </p>
<p>Please realize that I do not necessarily agree with these guidelines, I simply copied them from a published article. My objective was to illustrate how certain schools use a machete to separate the corn from the chaff.</p>
<p>Cud somebody please answer my questions</p>
<p>Wow, My son spent 16 hours a week on the FRESHMAN football team this year. Next year on JV he'll be spending about 20 hours a week. And he won't get any credit from the UC system for that? Ugh. Maybe he should just go back to playing computer games.</p>
<p>Thanks Susan for your comments. Actually, on the ride home from school the other day my daughter went on a long ramble about how she's learned how to deal with people from all her experiences with difficult horses over the years. I told her that I wished I had a tape recorder because it would have made a perfect college application essay. It certainly told me alot about her that I didn't know.</p>
<p>I find this article troubling because it seems to say that the raison d'etre of EC's is to assemble a resume that will influence an adcom. Students should select their EC's on the basis of what their interests are. Some may in fact be generalists and be happiest with a smorgasbord of activities while another may be happiest spending 4 hours a day at the piano or in the gym.</p>
<p>Its about time that adcoms make a greater attempt to willow out the resume kings who are about as genuine as a plug nickel. Requiring applicants, whose EC's may be a determining factor in an offer of admission, to submit references, proof of awards, newspaper clippings, etc. may be one way to reeling in the problem.</p>
<p>It's interesting to note the very last section of Xiggi's article. Students receive points for improving grades and/or increasing their adademic rigor. Thus, a student who begins high school at the most vigorous level and has steady grades all along receives no points. The student who works gradually up to the rigorous courseload would receive points. In addition, that same student would receive even more points for increasing GPA along with the rigor. Now there's a new strategy....though, I'm not sure how this advice applies to schools outside of the UC sytem. UCs have a unique evaluation style.</p>
<p>Thanx a million.</p>
<p>btw Xiggi ur archived posts on SAT have also helped me a lot, thanx again :)</p>
<p>Momsdream,</p>
<p>It is still far better to take the hard classes all along and get good grades all along. Xiggi's list from UC Davis' website show how they score the EXTRA points, the frosting on the cake so to speak. I don't recall the exact split, but this represented a minority of the points available. The bulk of the points came from the academic performance as evidenced by grades, academic rigor, and test scores (esp. SAT II). I recall calculating last year that my D exceeded the UCD cut-off on academic achievements alone, it was unneccessary to count ANY of her extra EC points. So don't feel you will be penalized for doing well all along. They are just trying to give a boost to kids who admirably straightened up retrieved themselves after a slow start. Kids who always excelled will do just fine in UC admissions.</p>