<p>quincy4, you seem to love pinpointing anything negative you can think of against umich. you're an MSU alum right?</p>
<p>i guess that explains it..</p>
<p>oh yeah totally my bad...i was just flippin through the posts lol</p>
<p>OK, fair enough, not all the posters were as harsh as I made them out to be. But consider: </p>
<p>mam1959 wrote: “PG County, where it sits, is no gem - in fact, PG County is for the most part awful. It has one of the worst school systems in the country, incredibly high and out of control crime rates (more autos stolen in PG County last year than in the entire Commonwealth of Virginia), and carved up as it is by I-95 and its cheap sprawl (not coincidentally in PG one of the worst drug corridors in the country), has zero ambiance or beauty.”
Forgiven wrote: “I was having a discussion with some UNiversity of Maryland College Park Smith Business School students, and they told me... That the Robert H. Smith School of Business owns Ross." … i don't think they're just biased.. they're stupid”</p>
<p>That’s pretty rough stuff wouldn’t you say, Alexandre?</p>
<p>Alexandre wrote: “2) Although Wharton is the unquestioned #1 B school at the undergraduate level, Ross is one of the 4 or 5 undergraduate programs (Sloan, Haas, Stern and perhaps McIntire being the other 3 or 4) that actually comes very close. Smith is seldom listed among the top 20, let alone the top 5.”</p>
<p>I didn’t say Smith was in the top 20, but at or near the top 30, which is pretty darn good considering the sheer number of B-schools in the country… Again, I stress that Ross IS better, I just don’t think SO much better as to think a student’s making a terrible decision in going there over Ross, esp given the expense of UM (again, a student’s expenses should play some part, unless you’re talking about Harvard – which, of course, has no undergrad B-school – where, if you’re accepted, it’s on you to FIND THE FRIGGIN’ $$ to go there!)</p>
<p>As for Cornell, I stand corrected. It’s news to me they had an undergrad B-program outside their well known, state-assisted ILR school. It doesn’t sure doesn’t get a lot of pub.</p>
<p>Alexandre, while yes, D.C. is not the corporate center New York or even Chicago is, I’d have to disagree with you and say it’s far more than just a government or legal center. MCI was HQ’d there (before the merger), as was AOL (before the Time Warner merger) among a number of other Fortune 200s. Many major accounting firms and banks have either HQ’s or major offices here because they want to be near the seat of governmental power. And in addition to the many financial types who live in the DC-Baltimore metroplex, there are a ton of business people who flow in and out of this town all the time. Unless you are specifically interested in entering the auto industry, wouldn’t you say being in this metroplex, esp a 20 min subway ride from Capitol Hill, puts a B-student at a logistically competitive advantage rather than being in a small town like Ann Arbor – excellent college town, though it is -- which is about 45 miles west of Detroit, and 250 miles east of Chicago?</p>
<p>Forgiven wrote: quincy4, you seem to love pinpointing anything negative you can think of against umich. you're an MSU alum right? i guess that explains it..</p>
<p>I wrote: Yes, UMs in the top 10, maybe in some top 5s, but Smith is on the cusp (even inside, in some rankings) of the Top 30 and thats a pretty heady crowd. As for College Park, no its not Ann Arbor, Again, I stress that Ross IS better, Unless you are specifically interested in entering the auto industry, wouldnt you say being in this metroplex, esp a 20 min subway ride from Capitol Hill, puts a B-student at a logistically competitive advantage rather than being in a small town like Ann Arbor excellent college town, though it is -- which is about 45 miles west of Detroit, and 250 miles east of Chicago? (and thats just today)</p>
<p>Forgiven, thats pinpointing negative against umich!!?? You must be mighty thin-skinned, my friend. And yes, for the record, I am an MSU alum and proud of it!!</p>
<p>i'm not talking about this thread.</p>
<p>as for washington dc, how many b-school students sought out jobs and internships there? not much at all.</p>
<p>Quincy - I have no insane hatred for Baltimore. But lets see - I am from Chicago - hardly a place without tough neighborhoods. I live near DC - and parts of DC are awful - and in fact DC's Government has been so incredibly dysfunctional it has been run by a control board - a move lauded by conservatives and liberals alike. And I have been far and wide in this country - traveling (and in my younger days, competing in athletics) in a number of urban areas. And the ghetto areas of Baltimore are the worst I have come across - period. You will find many that agree. And the social spending there by Annapolis and others have arguably made the problems worse - there continues to be so much disincentive to functional behavior. Of course, all of these points are arguable, but really, to equate pointing out the dysfunction that is Baltimore with insane hatred? First, it is a speculative point (you would not know how how I think), and second, it is hardly irrational to point out Baltimore's ills - people have been voting with their feet - it has suffered a precipitous population loss over the years, and continues to do so. Seems like they share my views - are hardly insane or full of hatred - rational seems more like it. And yes, the State of Maryland has a splendid history of not only being a tax and spend state, but one that is corrupt, too - witness the Marvin Mandel and Spiro Agnew days - and it is not hard to conclude that world class education spending has only been on the minds of the Maryland legislature recently. </p>
<p>And Ahh, on to PG County. Crime is out of control in PG County. Not only to media organs such as the Wash Post make considerable note of this, people who live in PG County often question how they continue to justify living there. And despite is population, retail stores and the like vastly ignore PG County - although politically incorrect as heck, they don't like the crime, the loss, and the negative externalities that come with PG County. Can you blame them? And while you make think it anecdotal, the fact that more autos are stolen in PG County than in the entire Commonwealth of Va is astounding - I mean, Virginia has bad neighborhoods, too - this is one county we are talking about. Think about how hard it is to live on a budget there. Auto insurance is 3 times as high as in Virginia. For a family with two cars, that could be three thousand dollars!! And it goes without saying that PG County schools are awful - 7 superintendents in 10 years and always on the precipice of being taken over by the State. They pour out thousands of functionally illiterate a year. And to think that Maryland, which is not a City school - it is not Temple or Drexel or Penn where the negative externalities can be soaked up by the positives of the extant city - it is in a surburban location that is rapidly losing any luster that it has - is somehow immune from these factors, forget it. The PG County environment in no way helps Maryland, and in fact, unless the school takes some positive steps to insulate itself from the problems in the County, it will find its rise to be one of the better state schools stalled. </p>
<p>The insane hatred post makes me double over with laughter. I say something no different than what gets murmered routinely at a local Chamber of Commerce meeting and naively I am cast as severe. Please. </p>
<p>And by the way, my views are not borne from a like of Michigan. I have held them for quite a while - from living 20 years in the area and from periodically doing business with Maryland and other factors. You want a good education? Sure, Maryland can give you one if you work for it. But if location is a tie-breaker - College Park sure doesn't help.</p>
<p>For the record, forgiven, I make it my point not to put down or trash any school. The only 'criticism' of UM I gave was in a thread where Alexandre invited such -- and even there, I gave balance and relied on fact... I defend schools, often, though when I feel they're being unfairly ragged on; like Maryland earlier in this thread. If you can't handle that ...</p>
<p>mam1959, you're comments all the same; I partially see some of your points, but still tend to disagree, overall ... and I don't know what to make of your earlier comment that UMD would be better if it were located in, say, Bethesda. While College Park isn't Berkeley or Scarsdale, it's not so bad as to harm it's rep to the extent you say it does. While the college's home can enhance a school – an environment, in the case of large schools, that is usually influenced by that school -- consider that amazing schools like Yale, Columbia and University of Chicago, among others (and very good ones like Case and IIT), either border on or are in poor/dangerous parts of large cities... this didn't seem to harm their respective reps, did it?...</p>
<p>But Quincy, Columbia, Penn and Yale were all founded in the 1700-1750 period. At that time, they were located in very pleasant and quiet areas. By the time they areas around them became unpleasant, those three universities were already established and considered among the very elite. Even Chicago's surrounding areas were not that bad until the 1960s. But then, Chicago was also a powerhouse. Maryland has been trying to make a push for the last 30 years or so, and they are doing great, but like I said, this thread started with a student stating that people he knew stated that "Smith owns Ross". We merely responded by saying that the two aren't in the same league in any way. The University of Michigan is significantly better, more prestigious and wealhier than the University of Maryland and the same goes for Ross vs Smith and Ann Arbor vs College Park. It is not that Maryland, Smith and CP aren't good, it is simply that Michigan, Ross and Ann Arbor are significantly better.</p>
<p>Points well taken, Alexandre. The friend who made the 'Smith owns Ross' comment no doubt was engaging in a bit of dumb, absurd hyperbole designed to draw the kind of reaction it has in this thread. Ross is obviously better, everyone knows that. But I wouldn't quite go so far as saying the 2 B-schools aren't in the same league in any way. Smith is making a strong push to get in the upper 30 or 20 schools, and a school that's adding excellent faculty and facilities, as Maryland/Smith has, has the kind of exciting synergy that creates an esprit de corps that allows some students, especially those who are more local to Maryland to, perhaps, choose it over Ross, despite the fact that, obviously, Ross will turn more heads in more places. That it’s a competitive B-school with a well above-avg student body at a large AAU, flagship public U no doubt evokes similarities to Michigan in many people’s minds... All I'm saying is I wouldn't flame such people (or Ross or U.Md) just because of the initial stupid statement by some guy just trying to draw a reaction. </p>
<p>Now I am more on board with the distinctions between Ann Arbor and CP, which are 2 night 'n day towns. And yes, I think CP sucks, even compared to my East Lansing, which isn't, itself, on par w/ A2. Yet as noted, Maryland has noticeably improved as an institution, in many academician's eyes in the last couple decades; it is more self contained than UMich (and on a scenic campus, to boot) so that CP need not necessarily be the ball 'n chain some believe hold back the school’s success... And despite what you say about those old Ivy's being founded in alleged nice areas (actually, Penn and Columbia moved in the late 1800s to the then more bucolic parts of their respective cities to escape the crowded, dirty, stultifying city centers), the fact is, their locations -- aside from the fact they were accessible to many urban dwellers -- didn't enhance these school's reps one way or the other, like Ann Arbor does UM's by being quintessential college towns. As I said, having a particularly good area to reside in can certainly enhance a school, but unless an up 'n coming school like Maryland exists in some God awful slum -- which College Park despite its shortcomings is certainly not, I see no reason why it keeps getting tossed around like it's some huge obstacle U.Md has to overcome.</p>
<p>I appreciate that UMd and Smith are making a push. But consider this, as good as Smith's new facilities are, can they really compete with Ross? Remember, Ross just completed a $450 million fund raising campaign and is going to erect a $150 million state of the art edifice for its undergraduate and graduate students. Not even Wharton's Huntsman building cost that much.</p>