<p>Ran into a mom whose top of the class son was applying to any number of schools last year. Found out that he is commuting to a local school and is paying full price. This kid had the grades and the test scores to be a contender for the most selective schools and he did apply to them all. I remember talking to the mom and feeling foolish when I made my usual remark about affordable safeties. The kid was at a private school,had it all going for him and was already accepted to Uof Michigan Early along with any number of other possibilities. He was golden.</p>
<p>Except when the time came, he was waitlisted or turned down by the very top schools, not that it may have mattered that much, as it turned ou that he was on scholarship at the private school because his mother did not make all that much, and his dad who did refused to pay. But as a top candidate, he got a tution free scholarship and they don't look at financials to get merit based awards. BUt we all know how colleges are about NCPs, and also when you live and work in NYC, you may think you don't make much, but compared to the rest of the country, that "much" is very much a subjective amount. Turns out Mom made enough that the young man did not qualify for much financial aid at all even without Dad's financials and the schools that might have given full need would not waive Dad's numbers. As for the UMichigan acceptance, all very nice, but they didn't offer a dime in aid even with some need. The acceptance to UM had the student dropping all of his safeties which his fool counselors agreed was the thing to do since he had his sure thing in the bag. The fin aid numbers, however did not come out until Spring and what happened was that he could not afford to go anywhere he was accepted. Through strings pulled, he got some award and is now commuting to go to a local college, a good one, but one that he had put his nose up to. Had he applied there, he would likely have gotten close to a full ride there and could be living there, as there are a number of merit awards for the most promising freshman applicants to entice them to come. When you are begging to get in, it's a whole other story.</p>
<p>It’s not very sad. He is going to a good school, and at a price that is doable. He is a bright kid and will do well. I just wish I’d said something more though honestly I doubt it would have penetrated. The fiction that if you are a good student the money will come still is around and touted as fact. People don’t get it that the affordable school that will take you should be your probable school if there are a lot of contingencies in place. It’s not a pick 'em fast safety just to fill in the blocks. My son said that the young man put his nose up at Michigan last fall, as his back up, safety school. I don’t think the family realized how much UM costs for OOSers. I’ve known several families in shock at what UVA charges for OOS.</p>
<p>Notrichenough, I don’t know. Probably not. He’s in a good place. He wanted to go directly to college and was so calibrated. To redo it all… I don’t know if that would have flown since he did have alternatives. Reapplying isn’t going to do anything in terms of getting into the schools he most wanted and getting money from them. He is stuck with a well to do dad who refuses to pay and most of the schools that he most wants won’ t budge on that, even if he gets accepted. He could probably get a lot of merti money from the school he’s attending if he took a gap year, but, I don’t think telling them all of this would have done any good. I am very disppointed in the counselors.</p>
<p>cpt…this happened to someone we know as well. We tried to convince them there were schools between the Ivies (kid applied to three) and one OOS public university. The family would have qualified for very large need based aid at those Ivies…but the kiddo did NOT get accepted there. There were any number of excellent colleges where his stats would have put him in strong contention for great merit awards. The family paid the OOS cost for three years…(thanks to many AP credits).</p>
<p>The story had a happy ending for this kiddo too…he got a fully funded masters assistantship which included tuition waiver, health insurance and a salary too. </p>
<p>He is now working at his dream job. </p>
<p>I doubt anything you would have said would have changed the family’s mind…and it sounds like the kid will land on his feet.</p>
<p>D has managed to narrow her list to 15 (!!!), but wisely has the financial safety, the “maybe I’ll stay near home” safety, and numerous merit hopefuls in addition to a couple of financial and/or academic reaches. Still hoping she’ll knock off another school or two so I don’t have to oversee 15 applications :(.</p>
<p>Thumper, you see what I mean. I don’t think this was a disaster for the kid and family. It just shows you that if you are not in touch with how financial aid and scholarships work, and how selective admissions is, and yes, Harvard will deny you aid if you have parents that can afford it on paper even if they won’t pay or have some reason they can’t that doesn’t line up with what is deemed acceptable. Also, the mom in this case probably makes 6 figures but cannot see herself lowering her standard of living, and I can’t blame her. She is in a nice place in a nice apartment in the city where she might stay for th rest of her life. I don’t think she would want to move into something for so much less that she could pay for her son’s education after already going through the trauma of divorce and lowering living standards from that. She is “poor” in her mind as compared to her peers and how she used to live and I don’t think any amount of talking if I even dared presume to do so would change her mind. </p>
<p>However, a lot of school counselors won’t touch the financial discussions. The way a lot fo school do it is just pay someone to come in and talk about it. But they talk in generalities. No one will say right out that, hey, if you make more than 6 figures or close to it, you are going to be expected to pay for a good part or all of your kid’s college regardless of your debts and expenses. ALso even if your FAFSA does generate a need figure for certain schools, many of those schools do not meet need most of the time. NYU could not care less about paying for someone’s need that is a NYC area kid. They have them lined up begging to be accepted, willing ot pay full freight. Why should they pay for anyone unless it is something on their wish list?</p>
<p>I have posted this before. Where I am, the school guidance counselors are NOT PERMITTED to inquire about family finances or the ability to pay for college. This is off limits to them in terms of privacy. If a GC here asked about family finances and ability to pay for college, they would be at risk of losing their jobs.</p>
<p>Our guidance department DID host several informational sessions beginning in ninth grade…about college costs, financial aid applications and the like. I went but I have to say…these were VERY poorly attended despite excellent publicity and advanced notice.</p>
<p>I totally understand that GCs cannot inquire about family finances. However, doing that isn’t necessary. The problem is the OPPOSITE. GCs assume that the money will be there (either thru family or FA).</p>
<p>there is an appropriate way around this without asking anyone to reveal personal details. Simply tell all students that they must apply to at least ONE school that they know FOR SURE that they will have all costs covered thru family funds and/or ASSURED grants/scholarships.</p>
<p>Instead, what often happens is that too many GCs will suggest that the money “will come” (from where???)</p>
So is my kids’ school. The GCs would only give us (the parents) a three-hour talk on financial aid and ask the students to apply two safety schools. They keep saying that they’re not financial adviser (which is true.)</p>
<p>You don’t need to talk about individual family finances to emphasize how important it is for the kids to have a serious discussion with the parents to find out how much the parents can/will really pay.</p>
<p>Or to discuss in more than the vaguest generalities how FA will work, like actually working through some examples.</p>
<p>Our GCs actually invite the parents to come for the meetings about college choices. And they DO tell students to discuss college finances with their families. But at the end of the day, they cannot tell a student NOT to apply to a school because it will not be affordable to their family.</p>
<p>Sadly, many parents do not consider the costs, and do not seek information about college finances even WHEN that information is offered.</p>
<p>When we asked the GC at our older daughter’s school for recommendations she reeled off a list of extremely pricey, non-merit-aid schools. I’d already run the FAFSA calculator, etc, and realized we would not qualify for much aid. But we had not saved 200k+, and had another kid to pay for, too…I told her we needed schools that were more affordable, and
she flat out told us not to worry about the money. That it was worth any investment. Well, she wasn’t the one having to come up with the money!</p>
<p>I stopped asking her for advice. I began obsessively reading books on paying for college, getting scholarships and then discovered CC, which is what shaped D’s application picks. I let her keep a few long shots. They did not pan out. If we’d only listened to GC, they ALL would have been financially impossible for us.</p>
<p>^ Our GC held a meeting in 11th and nearly every parent came (small class.) The GC emphasized: don’t count on an athletic recruit, don’t count on great gobs of money being thrown your way. But, at the time, pre-NPC, the conventional advice was, if you have questions go down to the [whatever it’s called] state funded office that helps kids and families understand how to afford costs. </p>
<p>Our initial sample EFC was huge. The only advice I got from those “professionals” was that the kids could get Staffords and we could take out loans. Nothing to explain the finaid process, CSS, merit, how COA is calculated or any of the rest of the story. Not even how parent loans worked, just some Fafsa and Stafford info. </p>
<p>When I look back over my years on CC and see the huge advice given by so many parents who are savvy about finaid, I am grateful for their (voluntary) efforts. I will always remember one mom who explained her dau’s vastly different “100% need” packages from two different colleges- this highly influenced us to look for schools likely to truly want D1 and that would go to bat for her.</p>
<p>But can the GC tell the student to “make sure to talk to your parents about whether they and you can pay for [whatever college], and check its net price calculator for need-based aid estimates if you are not sure”?</p>