Don't like child's college decision, but I understand it ... talk me down ...

Parents Forum
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<p>So my daughter had to make a college decision earlier than usual, because one of her choices is a branch campus of Penn State that has dorms - but not guaranteed dorms. So basically, if you don't decide by January, you're probably not getting a dorm, which would be a deal-breaker. Her other choices were three PA state schools (PSU is state-related, so it's much more expensive.) </p>

<p>Of the three others,one is ranked higher than the other two - but all three definitely have a lesser reputation and lesser resources than Penn State. She ended up choosing the lowest-ranked state school. Sigh. I understand her reasons and I don't think it's a clear-cut decision either way. But I'm going to put down the pros and cons and you guys tell me what you think.</p>

<p>Pros of Penn State Altoona:</p>

<p>It's Penn State - lots of majors, great internship and job resources.
She'd be 40 minutes from the main campus, and apparently a lot of kids go up on weekends for football games and other events. Heck, the Altoona campus has shuttles on weekends to State College.
It's a cute campus - not bad for a branch campus.
She would go to the main campus junior and senior year, and that's when she'd take most classes in her major.
In the end, she'd have Penn State on her diploma - no one cares where she spent her first two years, and it's a good university with a good reputation.</p>

<p>Cons of Penn State Altoona</p>

<p>Expensive - not quite as much as the main campus, but only a few thousand cheaper.
She could get a dorm for her freshman year if she chose it now, but it's unlikely she'd get one for her sophomore year. Maybe a third of the kids that want a dorm sophomore year get one. So the rest move off campus. The problem with that leads to two more "cons":
-- The campus has very little around it except a residential neighborhood and maybe a few businesses about a 10 minute walk away. Altoona itself is a depressed PA town with not much going on.
-- She won't have a car. There are apts close to campus, but no food shopping, etc.
Also, Penn State is more expensive than the other state schools.
The finding of an apt her second year, then moving up to State College the next year - many kids could handle that fine - I'm not so sure about her. She's a bit shy and not highly adaptable.
Penn State has a school spirit and feeling of community that I think would be great for her -- BUT when you move up to the main campus junior year, I don't think it's as easy to acclimate.
It's a branch campus -- some kids will be living at home, others might live nearby and go home for the weekend.</p>

<p>Pros of the other state colleges</p>

<p>Cheaper - oh, so much cheaper - probably $10,000 a year cheaper.
She could stay on one campus all four years - no transferring, no upheaval. For her, I think that would be a very good thing.
At the college she has chosen, she could probably stay in on-campus housing all four years, which I think might also be good for her.
She'd be about 1.5 hours away, which is convenient.</p>

<p>Cons of the other state colleges</p>

<p>Their reputation, choice of majors, etc. can't match Penn State. Not even close.Yes, her major is available, but I kind of wish she could be at a school where electives can point you to an area you didn't even consider before.
They all have a bit of a reputation as suitcase schools. My daughter has spoken to several kids she knows who are there now, and they seem to like it. But I know she wants to stay there on weekends, and it would stink if her dorm clears out every Friday night.
Their 4 year graduation rates suck.</p>

<p>The college she chose has the nicest campus, and it has a small, cute town right next to the campus. The other state school that has a better reputation has nothing around it. Suburban homes and farms. No businesses. Which I find amazing. What kind of zoning is a town doing when you have a campus of 8,000 college-age kids and not one local business that caters to their needs? Not a convenience store, not a pizza place, nothing. </p>

<p>If she could have gotten into the main campus of Penn State for freshman year, there would be no hesitation. Even with the extra expense. But that's not the way it is. And I know, you can bloom where you are planted. I'm just envisioning her hanging out with the slackers and not doing well at all. </p>

<p>Ugh. Sorry for the long post. I guess there's no point to this, unless you can make me feel better about her choice. lol</p>

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<p>Did you give her financial constraints?</p>

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<p>I would be willing to pay for Penn State Altoona if she really wanted to go there - and that was the most expensive option. So she didn’t really have to think about financial constraints at this point. Finance came into it at the beginning - she doesn’t have the grades/scores for merit at private schools, OOS public schools were way too expensive. So it came down to the state schools in PA. </p>

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<p>I think you are worrying about future housing too much. The school is not new, and it’s been working for lots of students for a long time. She’ll figure it out. She might get lucky and get a dorm for sophomore year, she could transfer early to PSU, she could find a group of friends to live off campus with. It will work out.</p>

<p>I think you should go visit again. Ask specific questions about housing to get a feel for how it works. Pick up a local paper to see what is available (and I’m sure there would be a lot more in the spring/summer. Ask where the kids buy groceries and eat pizza. It might make you feel better about the choice.</p>

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<p>A school which is 10,000 a year cheaper isn’t cheaper if it takes her 6 years to graduate. So you need to factor in the likelihood that she can get in and out in 8 semesters at any college you are comparing.</p>

<p>Hugs- this can’t be easy.</p>

<p>What is she planning on studying and how committed is she to that discipline?</p>

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<p>We did ask specific questions. First, PSU has the 2+2 program - you can’t move to the main campus until your junior year if you start at a branch campus. Second, I called and asked about the situation for sophomores, and the school is the one that told me that only a third of sophomores who put their name in the lottery get a dorm. I asked a friend who’s daughter goes there about the apts, etc, and got that info. Others have also confirmed that it’s very hard to live off-campus without a car. </p>

<p>Doesn’t matter. That’s not the one she chose. Like I said, I would have sent her there if that’s the one she wanted, since it’s Penn State, a much better school than the one she chose. In fact, I was listing all the cons of PSU Altoona so I would feel better about her choice (the other, lesser school). </p>

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<p>My take on this is that there are nearly 4,000 colleges in this country, and students go to all of them. Many graduates of these so-called “lesser” schools go on to advanced degrees and a great many graduates, advanced degrees or not, are gainfully employed, own homes, and support their families. I am mother and aunt to several of them. I don’t think the ones who went to 'better" schools are actually doing “better” in life.</p>

<p>You gave your D a choice, she made it, and I’m sure she will be fine. FWIW, my sister went to one of these “lesser” state colleges and has never once worked in her major field. She also reinvented herself in her 50’s and has done fine for herself. What an 18 yo does absolutely does not define their life. Full stop.</p>

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<p>Many universities let you register for housing without registering for the university. Even if she did register for the university, she could always change her mind and withdraw before May 1st if she gets a better offer later, right?</p>

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<p>Both universities require that you make a downpayment for the university before/at the same time you register for housing. If she couldn’t make a decision, I was going to suggest we hedge our bets and put down two deposits. But I thought that sounded a bit unethical. </p>

<p>@blossom - I was thinking about that. Penn State has a much better graduation rate but I can’t find a graduation rate for those coming from branch campuses. I suspect a higher percentage of those students would be the ones not ready for college. And an extra year at Penn State would be financially catastrophic.</p>

<p>With Penn State main campus, the danger of not graduating on time would depend on class availability. With my daughter’s chosen school, I think it would be more borderline kids who weren’t ready for college. </p>

<p>She wants to study Psychology. Who knows if that’s where she’ll stay? But that’s what she wants now. Penn State had another major (actually a whole school) called Human Development and Family Studies. It looked interesting, but those are the kinds of things she could have looked into if she had chosen to go to the larger university. But she didn’t care. </p>

<p>So there’s nothing I can do. I told her very plainly, before she made her decision, that I understood that part of college is having a good time. But I’m not paying $20,000 a year if having a good time screws up her grades. I said it will be hard enough to pay for 4 years. I’m not paying for 5 or 6. So she is forewarned.</p>

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<p><a href=“Pittsburgh - Admissions | University of Pittsburgh”>https://oafa.pitt.edu/apply/admissions-process/regional-campuses/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>What is her major? Did she also consider Pitt regional campuses? I think COA is similar to state schools and they should be comparable to PSU campuses and state schools academically. A few offer a $5,000 scholarship too.</p>

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<p>Is there’s a reason you aren’t naming the state schools? Maybe some of us that attended those schools could give you their opinion. Maybe it’s not as bad as you think.</p>

<p>I would avoid any school that had a suitcase rep. I can see that being an issue when trying to make friends.
Don’t worry so much about housing. She can’t be the only one in the same situation. I’m sure it will all work out. </p>

<p>The 2+2 program would have been just fine. 60% of students at main are from branch campuses. I know many kids that have done this program. All adjusted fine. In fact, they said that they never felt lost because they moved up to Main with groups of people they met at the branch campuses. </p>

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<p>Personally, I find all the PS branch campuses highly overrated, but PS sure has a nice thing going there…$$$$$.</p>

<p>I attended a branch campus, and recently my DD attended one. They are glorified CC at very high rates. I think people get sucked into the PS brand, and the “potential” of moving to main campus. Dealing w/ even the branch has been a constant source of aggravation and expense. </p>

<p>Since your DD is taking such a common course, would she not need at least a masters? If so, getting her BS at a state school would seem like a much smarter idea.</p>

<p>Also, I posted on here before about a friend’s DD who started at Penn State main in the summer because her courses would not be available when she started in the fall. Cost her an extra $8000. So even with main, your daughter may well not have finished in 4 years, or you would have paid extra for her to do so.</p>

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<p>I’m sure there are lots of overqualified students at state schools simply because they can’t afford to go anywhere
else. Also the smaller school might be less intimidating for your d.</p>

<p>Did you look at Slippery Rock?</p>

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<p>OP- we found the discussion around “we can only afford four years” to be a one way conversation. We had better luck with this script-</p>

<p>“we can afford 8 semesters. period full stop. If at any point you decide you don’t want to be at college, or don’t want to be at THIS college, or want to do something else for a while, or can’t figure out why you are there, the answer is easy- come home and get a job while you work it out. We will always love you and our emotional support is 100%- but we won’t support you financially after you graduate (with a reasonable launch period of course) and we will not be paying for you to be living with your friends and having a good time while “at college” if that means sleeping through your classes, not participating in campus life, and not making progress towards a degree.”</p>

<p>And then repeat it about 100 times. One of my kid switched majors so many times I lost count- and graduated in 8 semesters. Everyone I know kept telling me “oh, this will add a year” or “wow, glad it’s not me paying for major X”. I’d smile and nod. We were clear with this kid what the rules of the road were- I wasn’t going to micromanage the transcript, the paperwork, etc. but I was only paying for 8 semesters. Not my problem to wonder how to make up the missing intro courses.</p>

<p>Just be clear with her about your limitations. if she thinks you are paying for an extra year while she switches from Psych to Spanish, or wants to go overseas for junior year (which can cost less than staying home) but hasn’t worked out the pre-req’s or figured out if it will impact her senior year thesis or project- that’s on her to deal with. That’s why college’s hire deans and advisers.</p>

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<p>We looked at a lot of PA state schools, but the ones she ended up applying to were Shippensburg, Millersville, Kutztown, and Bloomsburg. She got into the first three. Bloomsburg wants to see her first semester’s grades, so they won’t let us know until February. But she’s not interested in Bloomsburg anymore. </p>

<p>Shippensburg has a town near it, but it’s a typical old, middle-of-nowhere town, not a college town. Millersville has nothing near it, just houses and farms. Kutztown has the cute college town, and has a much nicer looking campus. </p>

<p>Millersville seems to be regarded higher around here than either Shippensburg or Kutztown. When I look at grad rates, etc., they are in reality only a bit better. She loved Kutztown. I think she tried to make herself love Altoona simply because she really does love Penn State. If she could have gotten into the main campus from the beginning, she would have gone without hesitation. She just really didn’t like Altoona (the town) although the campus was okay. </p>

<p>I told her about the suitcase reputation of both Millersville and Kutztown (I don’t really know about Shippensburg.) She has been looking for kids from her high school who went there last year, and they seemed pretty happy. I talked to the admissions office and they said that the going-home-on-weekends thing tends to be the worst first semester of freshmen year, and then people adjust and stay. Who knows if they are telling the truth? Could be also that the kids who are going home all the time are the ones who aren’t adjusting and they are the ones who don’t stay for sophomore year anyway. </p>

<p>I am considering the need for a Master’s. Which I can’t pay for. And she has a cousin who is doing exactly what she wants to do (counseling teens). The cousin got a job with her Bachelor’s, and then got her Master’s part-time as she worked, with financial assistance from her workplace. That’s how my daughter would have to do it as well.</p>

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<p>@laralei - what aggravation did you experience with the PS branch campus? </p>

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<p>Think of this as the perfect opportunity to show you trust her judgement. Or practice trusting it, at any rate :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Penn State Altoona is not, imho, so much better than Kutztown or Ship’ or Millersville that I would agonize over the choice. The housing issue is a big problem, and only gets worse once you arrive in State College. Yes, there is a shuttle from Altoona but the cultural divide is deep and wide. </p>

<p>If her instinct is to love a wonderfully affordable choice, then that may be a good thing in the long run. Mine also got in to Ship’ and I really liked it, but they weren’t feeling it. Nothing you can do at this point but remember that the most important part of successful college is the student, not the school. The extra money you will save – both in a timely graduation and lower tuition – coudl go towards a car, a semester abroad, or help with the first apartment. Kutztown is a nice, solid, better-than-average in the system school. She will have many great opportunities and will have much better advising to boot. Congratulations on having a fine choice and a sensible daughter :)</p>

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<p>@greenbutton - Is Kutztown really considered a “solid, better-than-average” PA state school? I’ve just heard so much about it being a slacker school, a party school, etc. But maybe because it’s not that far from me and I hear more about it? Perhaps the people near Shippensburg hear the same stuff about Ship? lol</p>

<p>I’m also interested in your saying she’ll have better advising. Is that just because of the size of the campus (10,000 vs. 40,000) or are you basing that on specific knowledge of Penn State or Kutztown advising? </p>

<p>I agree that her choosing a state school will allow me to help her with a semester abroad. There’s one the Psych dept. sponsors in London and she seemed happy to hear that. </p>

<p>Oh, and I loved Ship, too, when we toured it. The Admissions office just did a great presentation and it seemed like a very supportive, warm community. But alas, it came in third for my daughter …</p>

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<p>Millersville is a fine choice especially if she is studying psychology. We lived fairly close to the campus and the kids in our town who went there rarely came home on the weekends. She will most likely need a graduate degree and the lower cost over the four years will be able to help her reach that goal. If my PSU student was not admitted directly to the main campus, I would have encouraged him to make another choice. Be happy for her. She will be fine.</p>

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<p>Oops! I just realized that her first choice is Kutztown. Also know many kids that go there. It is much more rural than the other options. I know that it is hard when you think your kiddo is making a mistake. In Pa, the directional schools are mostly seen as equal, with Millersville and West Chester getting a bit higher marks.</p>