"Doors closed" if get a BA instead of a BM?

<p>My daughter is currently in a BM program but is thinking of switching to a BA in music. She wants to know if any doors will be closed if she makes this switch. If she (theoretically) took the same classes as the BM requires, would any jobs or graduate schools care that she did not have the BM designation? From my research it doesn't seem so, making it quite a bit different from other professional degree designations.</p>

<p>I guess it depends on what sort of job she is after. A BM tends to be a performance degree. A BA tends to be an academic degree, although it could have some performance components. </p>

<p>There are many performers who do opt for a BA and go on to have a career as a performers. Performance jobs tend to be auditioned-based. They really don’t care about your resume, or even of you have a degree. Same for grad school: your audition will decide whether you are accepted. If you have a BM that is light on some components (say, music history or theory) you might end up having to do more coursework during your masters program.</p>

<p>As for a job in the non-performance side of the industry, a general rule is that it hardly matters what the degree is as long as you can show that you are organized and capable and able to do the job. If you are working, say, in opera management, a BM in voice performance or a BA in music history (or whatever) are pretty interchangeable. Some students major in arts management. That could be a useful resume point, but is not essential. </p>

<p>Generally, those jobs evolve from some kind of internship position. I’m speaking very broadly. If you give us more specifics about what your daughter wants to do, we might be able to be more helpful.</p>

<p>Is she an instrumentalist, vocalist, or composer? What is the BA program like?</p>

<p>I know successful solo instrumentalists who didn’t even major in music at all.</p>

<p>My (former) BM (music ed) student recently switched to a BA in music. It just made sense to him. </p>

<p>After two and a half years of college, he is still a little undecided about his future career plans. He originally wanted to be a performer, but realizes his chances of that are slim, not because he doesn’t have the drive or motivation, but simply because there are not enough jobs for his instrument for all top performers to get a job, let alone all the not-so-top performers. </p>

<p>And he is having second thoughts as to whether he really wants to teach. He has a summer job with a company that starts out it’s new assistant managers at a salary that is higher than what teachers start out in our area. The company is expanding rapidly, and he could likely be an assistant with that company in less than a year (if he dropped out of college and started working full time), and in a couple of years he could be a manager with a starting salary of almost double what starting teachers make. By the way, the VP of that company has a BM, couldn’t find a job in music, and ended up working in retail, quickly being promoted through the ranks.</p>

<p>Not that he wants to continue working for that company, or has any plans to drop out of college, but once he realized that there are so many other opportunities, outside of music, that are more realistic and better paying, reality has begun to sink in.</p>

<p>By changing from a BM to a BA, he is going to be able to graduate this year, just three years total, instead of four years for the BM. This is a year, and $$$'s, that he can use for grad school. </p>

<p>If he changes his mind about (not) teaching, he can use that year to get a Masters of Art in Teaching, with a concentration in music ed, and in the same amount of time as it would have taken him to get a BM, he will be just as qualified to be a music teacher - but at a higher salary.</p>

<p>If he changes his mind about performance, he can use that year for post graduate performance studies, possibly leading to a MM in performance, and still be ahead of most of his peers.</p>

<p>At this point, he just took the LSAT and is seriously considering a joint MBA/JD program (if his score his high enough), which can be accomplished in 3.5 years. If he does this, he would have a Bachelors, and a masters, and a doctorate - all in only six months more than it would have taken him to complete a BM and MM. </p>

<p>So anyhow, to the OP’s question, there are a zillion different paths to the same destination. For someone seriously interested in performance, having a BA in music will not block you from your destination, it’s just a different path.</p>

<p>Hmmm.
I’m not sure I understand this:

</p>

<p>If she took the same classes, why wouldn’t she be graduating with a BM? In fact, I doubt she actually <em>COULD</em> take the same classes if she drops from BM to BA. Most studios and performance courses are closed to BA students.</p>

<p>At my son’s school, graduating with a BA (academic) and BM (perf at SOM) were distinct degrees in separate schools. If you dropped out of a BM stream, you had new (language) prereqs to fulfill and other major requirements for a BA.</p>

<p>Has your d looked into all of this and gotten guidance from her academic adviser? And what’s the point of the switch, if the curriculum were to remain the same?</p>

<p>I would think frankly that it <em>might</em> have some bearing on grad admit insofaras the WHY, which is a question I would be asking. But that would depend on quite a few variables. Eg. would she be seeking a MM or MA? (That would make a difference.)
If MM, would it be on principal instrument? All else being equal, it could make her slightly less attractive than a BM grad if each were equal in terms of audition. It may also affect her actual development of performance skill – after all, it’s the concentration/focus on performance of a BM that makes it a quasi- “professional” degree. </p>

<p>So, if we’re talking about performance, I think there are many reasons – not just post grad perception – not to switch to a BA unless there were a compelling reason, providing you’re talking about a traditional, academic, not auditioned BA compared with a selective performance BM.</p>

<p>“Most studios and performance courses are closed to BA students.”</p>

<p>Not really. It depends on the program. They vary wildly. There are plenty of auditioned BA performance programs that are quite selective and intense. I know two recent students out of UCLA’s BA program who went on to get their performance MMs at Curtis. Look at each program carefully, the devil is in the details.</p>

<p>^True. Let me put it another way.
If switching from an auditioned, selective, BM program to a non-auditioned, academic BA, it is possible that “taking the same courses” would not be possible since selective, auditioned, program courses (whether a bm or bfa or in some cases, a BA) typically reserve their space for the students pursuing the specialized degree.</p>

<p>By way of example (although this example also involves a school transfer) – son’s friend was pursuing a BM at Oberlin then wanted to transfer to a specific Umich SOM program. Wait listed for program. Transfers anyway. That year, despite BM background and talent, cannot access some of the courses he’d like in the specialized program he wanted, though allowed by special permission to take some of the lower level courses. Following year, is accepted into specialized program. Now can access the courses in specialized program. Everybody’s happy, but he’s also been attending summers and is in a fifth year and may still take another to fulfill degree requirements.</p>

<p>So at Umich, when it comes to the school of music, for example, if you were accepted to an auditioned/portfolio BM or BFA, and you discontinued in order to take a BA in the LSA college, for example, you cannot assume you’d be allowed to access the courses available to you when you were in the specialized program. For those courses, the registration is closed, and is only available by override, and you only get the override issued to you if you’re designated as pursuing (and having been admitted to) a particular degree.</p>

<p>So depending on the school, I still think it is unlikely that you can actually access the “the same classes as the BM” if you’ve switched your status to a BA, at least if the BA is an academic, non-auditioned degree. If the BA to which one is switching (eg the Umich SOM has a BA in Musical Arts that’s intended for cognate study academically) even then, while access is more likely, it can be restricted to some degree.</p>

<p>None of which is to say that in this case the poster describes that switching to a BA isn’t the right path for her daughter. It may well be, and it may well be that it wouldn’t make a whit of difference. </p>

<p>But switching from an auditioned, specialized program to a non-auditioned BA can often signal a different priority or focus, or a desire to not pursue certain foundations, etc., which could in turn signal a reduced commitment to the discipline if pursuing a MM in the same discipline. Which is why it could in theory if all else is equal make a difference in terms of MM.</p>

<p>In the Stone Age, I was in a rigorous BFA portfolio-admit program. The hours and production requirements were tough. Many students dropped out of the program and pursued a BA in theory instead. Competitively speaking, this disadvantaged them to some degree for both grad work and production work. </p>

<p>I don’t want the poster’s d to have any unintended consequences. The move should be weighed with eyes wide open. The best course would be to test the theory with an academic advisor to confirm she can access the same courses – or not – and let that govern her decision.</p>

<p>If she is in in the BM she has a studio professor and an academic advisor that can give her the details for her school. It varies too widely to know unless you know the specific school. At Rice, if you drop form BM to BA you do not get to stay in your studio and take the same classes. But the professor and advisor will let her know. As to grad schools, etc. I don’t know about instrumentalists, it could be that if you cannot play in the same level of ensembles and take lessons from the same professor that the skills would not develop the same. </p>

<p>In grad school and jobs it is all about the audition and maybe some connections to get the audition. DD has a friend in one of the highest level grad schools who had a science degree as an undergrad. But it was voice and she had a supurb teacher and performance experiences outside her academics as an undergrad. It will also take her an extra year to get her masters to make up the classes she missed as an undergrad.</p>

<p>Thank you all for the responses. My daughter is not interested in performance later, but probably music ed/music therapy/musicology. It doesn’t seem like a BA is going to be a problem for those. I think only an MM really cares about a BM. It doesn’t seem like any job strictly requires the BM certification. D is still planning on taking at least 60 credits of music - a lot more than the typical ~30 a BA requires - so she will still be getting a strong music background. She just wants the substantially greater flexibility the BA allows. I agree it depends on the school, she’ll needs to be able to be in the studio and classes that she wants. </p>

<p>I think my answer is, it doesn’t close any doors, but a BM does allow one to maximize their musical training (ie, minimal other requirements) and provides a good structure.</p>

<p>Even an MM application won’t be influenced negatively by the lack of a BM degree. I can think of a number of students who received BAs and are now in MM programs. All that matters is that audition. (For example, to bring up Rice, which was mentioned below, I know of a student who is now in the MM program at Rice after receiving a BA degree from a university.)</p>

<p>“A BM does allow one to maximize their musical training (ie, minimal other requirements) and provides a good structure.”</p>

<p>This is true, but as your D has recognized, the more general degree affords one the freedom to explore a broader base of learning. </p>

<p>And especially in the US, where second bachelor’s degrees are not even offered by the vast majority of the top schools, the most opportune time to cast a wide net is while pursuing your first (and likely only) bachelor’s degree. Specialization can always come later, with graduate school and/or professional training. Consider the specific consequences in the context of her program, to be sure, but if none of them loom large then now is the time for her to taste the buffet before her ticket expires. :)</p>

<p>It only helps the decision that her major is music, which is a highly meritocratic field.</p>

<p>IMHO, I would add the caveat that if a music ed degree is truly the goal and not a back up plan, then the student should pursue that as an undergrad degree due to all of the practicum teaching classes most undergrad music ed programs entail. During son’s program, they learn and practice teaching band, orchestra, choral, and general music. As a string major, they participate in the National String Project for 3 semesters learning to give lessons from elementary to high school students under the direct supervision of an experienced instructor. These classes are done in addition to a semester of student teaching so the music ed major is as well prepared as possible before entering a classroom. If you wait until grad school to pick up the music ed certification, the potential music teacher would miss out on many of these practical application classes. DS had a teacher in high school who was a VP major and after attending Yale for VP MM went on to get a teaching certificate. She told them all to get as much experience teaching as possible before going into a classroom because she had a rough time her first few years. It can be done as she certainly demonstrated but she wished she had spent more time learning how to teach as an undergrad.</p>

<p>Doors closed? Are there open doors in this field?</p>