Double Depositing is NOT a good idea

Parents Forum
41

<p>
[quote]
The NACAC, by the way, is the organization that has set many of the practices that surround admissions practices. So, those of you who say the NACAC doesn't matter to you because you are not a member are incorrect: they are the ones who have set the professional standards and practices that the majority of colleges abide by. Those standards protect you/your child, even if you don't like the responsibilities that fall on you as a result of the NACAC standards....saying that this organization doesn't apply to you because you aren't a member or didn't have a say in the standards, is a bit like saying it's ok to cheat on your income taxes because you're didn't have a say in the development of the income tax laws.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Carolyn, surely you understand the difference between something being of relevance ("mattering") versus being bound by their policies? I sure hope so. </p>

<p>But saying a professional association's standards are like our tax laws? Am I missing something here???</p>

<p>BTW, I've read through the posts again and see no bashing of NACAC. Their work no doubt benefits most of us. But, that does not mean their policies are binding on nonmembers. </p>

<p>It is also important to keep in mind that NACAC, as a professional organization who exists to serve its institutional and individual members, has developed policies that serve MEMBER interests. We should not be surprised that any benefit to us NONMEMBERS is somewhat indirect. We should also not be surprised that most of the NACAC policies were developed to ensure a level playing field among member colleges as they compete for students. None of those policies were designed SOLELY for the benefit of applicants.</p>

<p>At any rate, Carolyn, you are welcome to interpret NACAC stuff any way you want. But, as you yourself said, "I just hate to see mis-information being spread. " So do I. So, for the record:</p>

<p>NACAC is a nice organization.</p>

<p>NACAC has brought a degree of order to the college admissions frenzy.</p>

<p>Some NACAC policies, in fact, may actually be of benefit to some students some of the time.</p>

<p>NACAC does not, and cannot, obligate a nonmember. Most parents are not eligible for membership. So, most parents are not bound.</p>

<p>NACAC policies are NOT like our tax laws.</p>

42

<p>It's unfair. It is unjust. But you will not solve anything by double depositing. They will revoke you and you will end up losing.</p>

<p>There is no two ways about it. Make up your mind and deposit before May 1st. I know, it's hell. But you will not solve anything by playing games. The ball is in THEIR court.</p>

43

<p>Somehow, I knew someone would not like the tax analogy. :) In any case, it is easy to justify doing just about anything if you want to bad enough but that still doesn't make it right.</p>

<p>By the way, I asked Bruce Poch, director of admissions at Pomona College for his take on this and he replied with this message, which he gave me permission to copy here:</p>

<hr>

<p>Dear Carolyn:</p>

<p>There really should be no question that double depositing is wrong and ultimately harms those students who may be on a waiting list. </p>

<p>I suspect most colleges make clear their own version of this commitment. We do certainly hope high schools will help by sending out only one final transcript, unless the aforementioned waiting list offer is involved. </p>

<p>The Pomona College notification agreement is printed and highlighted on the front page of our Enrollment Packet. It reads:</p>

<p>By submitting the required forms, I am confirming my intention to enroll at Pomona College. I have not submitted and will not submit an enrollment deposit to any other college or university to which I have been accepted. I understand that if I violate this agreement my admissions status at both colleges will be subject to revocation.*</p>

<p>Exception: I understand that if I am on a waiting list for another college and am later accepted and decide to attend that institution, I may send my acknowledgement and any requested deposit to that college. Should this happen, I agree to notify Pomona College immediately of my plans to enroll elsewhere.</p>

<p>Bruce Poch
Vice President and
Dean of Admissions
POMONA COLLEGE
Claremont,California </p>

<hr>

<p>If anyone would care to share examples of college statements that do not say double depositing is wrong in some form, please share them --- but do include the full statement and the name of the college.</p>

44

<p>Thanks for sharing this, Carolyn. It sounds like what I've always understood the Enrollment Deposit to mean. I really feel for folks who are unable to get schools to give them the info needed to make fully informed decisions in a timely manner. This leaves families with the choice of trying to get extensions or making choices with schools that follow the rules & promptly give them the info needed. The schools will EVENTUALLY get the message if families make their choices based on the schools that provide timely info.</p>

45

<p>HImom,
Again, I totally agree with you and others who have noted that colleges don't always give necessary information in a timely manner. That really is a gap in the system and hopefully schools that screw up that way would be willing to grant an extension to the May 1 deadline if they are reminded that they didn't give a final FA offer until such and such a date. Students unable to make a final decision due to family situations in flux can also ask for a deferral on their start date at the school where they've already made a deposit rather than double-deposit.</p>

<p>I also feel for people caught in these crunches, and have actually been working with several students who were or are in similar situations, who either made their decision with inperfect information or asked - and were granted extensions - so I know first-hand the angst snafu's like this can cause. </p>

<p>The system isn't perfect, but once everyone starts taking the attitude that they can do whatever they want simply because the system isn't perfect, it will be even less so.</p>

<p>Those that would like to express their opinions about the system to the NACAC and the individual colleges that are involved. The more people speak up, the more likely change will occur.</p>

46

<p>Carolyn, do you have any links where the advice to double deposit is given? I'd like to see those threads.>></p>

<p>Cavalier, I don't spend much time here at CC these days, so I can't give you links. However, I have received PMs and emails from several different students and parents who told me that people on CC (not just here in the parents section) told them that it was OK to double deposit. That is why I felt it was necessary to bring this subject up and came back and start this thread. </p>

<p>If anyone is going to give advice, please try to do some research first before you give advice that could in fact have negative consequences. Then, if you still feel that a person should do something, at least share the full potential consequences so they can make a fully informed decision. It also helps to talk in terms of "What I would do" instead of "What you should do," especially in situations where you may not have all of the facts or where there are definite ethical considerations. </p>

<p>By the same token, if you receive advice here - even from the most knowledgable poster - do your own follow up research to make sure you have all the facts and understand the potential consequences. Don't overlook asking your guidance counselor as well. Then, of course, it is up to you to make your own decision.</p>

<p>(By the way, before anyone points out that I am also not perfect, I assure you that I am FULLY aware of times when I rushed to answer a question and gave inaccurate information or didn't give complete information. That is exactly why I work so hard to research and keep up-to-date and share factual information on my blog and website. Of course, no one is perfect, and I'll be the first to admit that there are times I've given less than perfect information too.)</p>

47

<p>Double depositing is incredibly dishonest, selfish and shallow. Those who do it deserve their just punishment. For some reason, this really strikes a chord with me - - I hope the issue is resolved and that it isn't particularly endemic to the CC community.</p>

48

<p>Carolyn, thanks so much for coming in & helping clarify this situation so folks who CHOOSE to double deposit know what risks they run & possible consequences to the student & others. Your perspective is always welcome.
Hope the students you're working with have been given enough time to make considered, thoughtful decisions. There surely are some big bugs in the current system, but it could be worse.</p>

49

<p>"The system isn't perfect, but once everyone starts taking the attitude that they can do whatever they want simply because the system isn't perfect, it will be even less so."</p>

<p>Carolyn, this is hyperbole? I hope so, as I don't see anyone here telling folks to "do whatever they want".</p>

50

<p>
[quote]
However, I suspect that even if the candidate reply date was moved back to May 15 or June 15 or July 15, there would still be people double depositing, clinging to the last minute to the idea that they should be allowed to take as long as they want to make up their minds.

[/quote]
That may be true, but then those are the same kinds of people who apply ED and back out, or have "divorced parents", or non-custodial non-support stories. No-one here is recommending taking as much time as you want with the decision. The crux of the issue here is really last-minute financial aid offers for the truly hard-pressed. </p>

<p>It's pretty funny though, as I got quite a kick from the PMs from several posters on both sides of the issue, but I do wish they would post openly.</p>

51

<p>Is there still doubt? If you get that magic spot from a wait list you can cancel your first commitment and go to the preferred school. That being so, how can ANYONE condone (unexcused) double deposit? A lot of comments here on the CC site might look like people are obsessed with this college stuff. The pro-double-deposit sentiment is a good candidate for that!</p>

52

<p>The crux of the issue here is really last-minute financial aid offers for the truly hard-pressed. </p>

<br>


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<p>Again, in that situation, call the colleges involved, point out that they did not give your final FA offer until late in the process (if that is truly the case), and request an extension to make up your mind and get your financial house in order. I have talked to several admissions directors this week who said that they would grant an extension under those conditions. They also said that they would be understanding with students/families who need substantial financial aid and need more time to come up with the deposit. Two even said they would consider waiving the deposit in extreme hardship cases.</p>

<p>If you have personal experience with schools that have NOT granted an extension under these conditions (and I am willing to buy that there might be some), please let us know their names. I personally would not want to attend or have my child attend a school that would not grant an extension in these circumstances, especially if I was going to rely on them for financial aid for the next four years.</p>

53

<p>Point of information:</p>

<p>The earlier suggestion on PF, to double-deposit, was made in response to a student in a state of indecision NOT awaiting a financial aid result. That student was merely deciding between similar schools. I noticed that she/he took more specific questions to the Admission or Ivy forums, where the students entered into some dialogue with him/her regarding equally balanced "good"/"bad" features of those schools. I didn't see the student mentioning FA there, either. The concerns seemed mostly environmental, & weighing that against other factors.</p>

54

<p>One student posted that while the school providing the financial info late was willing to postpone the date she needed to file an acceptance with them, her other school, her second choice, from which she had already received the financial info, wasn't willing to extend her acceptance deadline while she waited to hear from her first choice school. It seemed to me that she would have to file her acceptance to the second choice school to protect against receiving an unsatisfactory financial package from her first choice school. I don't know how she ultimately worked this out. She called the first choice school several times to get them to give her financial info timely, but I think they weren't able to do that.</p>

55

<p>First, I agree that double depositing is not ethical. I haven't seen the thread odyssey mentions above, but my S is in this boat. He has gotten an extension from school A, who will supposedly be mailing him his revised Finaid package on Wed., which means he won't receive it until 5/5 or 5/6. School B has only given him an extension until 5/5. What to do? School A has given us a general idea of the changes, but we had hoped to use that see if school B (his first choice) would raise theirs a bit more. I think he will have to accept school B and try to work it out, but obviously they will be less motivated if they know he's definitely coming.</p>

56

<p>Maybe School A can fax or email you the finaid offer on May 3rd? That would give you a couple of days to consider and compare with School B.</p>

57

<p>We've asked twice for them to fax or e-mail the offer. They insisted that the information would be mailed out by regular mail. Today when I called again the woman said she "can't find" a hard copy, but could tell me the numbers. I don't think we can simply tell school B that this is what A told us over the phone they were giving. Any ideas?</p>

58

<p>GFG,</p>

<p>Does your son have access to his FA information on-line? I would check there to see if the information has been updated, since most of this stuff also happens electronically. Good luck</p>

59

<p>I think it's too late to negotiate aid, although it's not too late to consider the numbers you have in hand.</p>

60

<p>A few questions:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Is this a situation where you honestly can not afford to send him to School B with the current financial aid package? Or, are you just hoping to get a last minute "little bit extra" from School B to sweeten the pot?</p></li>
<li><p>If School A comes in with a higher offer in a few days, and School B won't negotiate further, will he definitely turn down School B to attend School A for the extra money? Or, is School B really the school he's likely to attend anyhow, even if they don't up the ante? </p></li>
</ul>

<p>If this is a case of honestly not being able to afford School B, then figure out how much more you need to make it happen for your son, call the financial aid office TODAY, tell them that amount, and ask if they can make it happen. You can verbally tell them what you've been promised by School A (although I would not count on that boosting an offer substantially at this late date). If they say that they can't/won't meet more of your need, then you really don't have to worry about the deadline for school B because it is likely that School A's offer is going to be the best financially for your family. </p>

<p>On the other hand, if you can afford School B (even if it hurts a little), and it truly is the school he is going to attend anyhow, regardless of whether School B suddenly comes up with some last minute money or not, then you don't have to worry about waiting for School A's offer. Getting or not getting the "little bit extra" you say you'd like won't change the outcome of your son's admissions decision one iota. Remember, you will go through the financial aid process all over again next year, so perhaps you can negotiate that little bit extra then.</p>

<p>Now, if both schools are equal in his mind, and you can afford either, well, that's an entirely different quandry that may have more to do with indecision than financial considerations. In that situation, I'd sit down with my child and weigh the pro's and con's of each school based on the available information and give him until May 5 to make the final decision. </p>

<p>Good luck -- hope it all works out for your son quickly.</p>