Double Depositing is NOT a good idea

Parents Forum
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<p>Well, "afford" is a subjective word. I've discussed our finances too much already on CC, but I would say in honesty that the money is not so much an issue for the first year as it is in the sense of overall indebtedness when projecting a similar/slightly loan heavier package for 3 years after that. So yes, we are interested in some pot sweetening but for long term reasons. Your last sentence struck a chord and confirms the idea my son and I were just discussing. It would probably be better at this time to just accept school B's offer as is and keep the good will intact for next year.</p>

<p>PS. The amount of money he will owe coming out of college B is more than posters on CC seem to think is reasonable, as per the multiple threads on this forum related to that topic of how much debt is acceptable. Hence the uncertainty....</p>

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<p>TheGFG, I understand about the loans. No one wants to be saddled with massive debt and I too would have doubts about my child taking on large amounts of debt. Again, only your son and you can decide if living with the difference in loans is going to be worth the difference between School A and School B. It's a tough decision, and I'm sorry you have to make it under such pressure. :(</p>

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<p>By the way, not sure if this will help, but you might try running a few scenario's through this loan calculator -- it takes potential earnings from various careers/majors into account to help you determine whether loan amounts are reasonable. Like all things related to college admissions, it's not perfect, but it might give you and your son some additional insights:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.csumentor.edu/FinAid/SLOPE/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.csumentor.edu/FinAid/SLOPE/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And, I would definitely put in a call to the FA office at School B and ask them for the numbers on how your son's FA package might change next year. Specifically, ask them how many upperclassman see increases in their loan amounts and/or grants over the four-years. That is an important piece of information to have as well in evaluating the package you have in hand.
Also ask if there are any merit scholarships that might be reserved just for upperclassman (and do a search at <a href="http://www.finaid.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.finaid.org&lt;/a> for outside merit scholarships he might be able to apply to as well in the coming year) </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>That csumentor is a really interesting calculator. Thanks Carolyn!</p>

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<p>just to confirm, is changing your mind legal? I mean, say u've sent ur deposit to a college and hear at a later date from another school- is it okay/legal to tell the other college that u've changed ur mind?</p>

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<p>If you are waitlisted at another school and then get in, the college where you made your deposit will understand. You'll still probably lose your deposit, but waitlisted students are expected to make a deposit elsewhere.</p>

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<p>Changing one's mind legal? Ask a lawyer, and have anything you signed in hand. It depends on the specific circumstances.</p>

<p>Is it done? All the time, with WL action being the most common.</p>

<p>Will the college do anything? Other than keep your deposit, almost assuredly not, but it would be best to get a release from the school in writing.</p>

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<p>Changing your mind due to receiving an offer off the WL is accepted.</p>

<p>Whups, should have read more than one post, CalMom had it covered. Never mind.</p>

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<p>Well, this issue has been given a lot of commentary. I would like to make three points regarding this discussion.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The NACAC organization's rules apply to their members period.</p>

<p>The students apply under the guidelines set up by the schools and the NACAC. No student or parent has any prior say or voting right or any means to affect the rules of any college or the NACAC.</p></li>
<li><p>It is not wise to double deposit, but it is not a 'moral' or 'ethical' question in any manner, shape or form. The student is limited by the restrictions that have been arbitarily set by the NACAC and the schools. Face with such an important decision, many could stumble and even fall on their face, so taking a position of acceptance to two schools has a risk. Each of the schools, IF they learn about the two acceptances could withdraw their acceptance. Whether each would is unknown and would vary with the school.</p></li>
<li><p>Inherently in the acceptance game that the NACAC and school have created is the Waitlist option. The Waitlist option, used by many if not all the schools inplies clearly that the acceptance pool is fluid. Each year, students who have accepted to attend one school, will withdrew and attend another (primarily) due to Waitlist offerings.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Each school knows and expects some withdrawal between May and August. Their penalty to the student who withdraws is to keep the deposit and that's all.</p>

<p>Therefore: While not wise, it is an option to double deposit. I do not recommend this step unless there is a valid concern and one of the schools will not grant an extension of time. However, the student should never reveal to either of these schools that he/she has sent deposits to the other school. It is a double standard to allow Waitlist activity as a standard practice condoned by the NACAC and the schools while denying flexibility to the student, who after all is 'playing the house's game in their parlor and under their unilaterally created rules'.</p>

<p>Each student who is Waitlist eligible and maintains themselves on a Waitlist is demonstratedly not fully committed to their 'deposit school'. That same school, if they have a Waitlist and almost all do have a Waitlist, is a participant in the 'double deposit side game'. Each time they offer a place to a student on their Waitlist, they are removing an accepted/deposit committed student from the rolls of another school and they are thereby a willing participant in 'double depositing'.</p>

<p>The student does 'double depositing' prior to May 1st. The schools encourages committed students to break their commitment and lose their deposit after May 1 and as late as August 31</p>

<p>In doing so, the schools are seeking the best possible outcome to meet their needs (which is their right); likewise, the student is seeking the best possible outcome for her/his needs (which is her/his right).</p>

<p>"What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander"or"fair is fair"</p>

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<p>Quite apart from the internal logical flaws of the above argument, two immediate comments come to mind. Morality and ethics are principles by which human beings choose to guide their beliefs and conduct. I, for one, do not look to an organization such as NACAC to outline or dictate such principles.</p>

<p>In terms of standard acceptable practices, most people do not consider "double depositing" to be the same as holding a place on one, or even more, waitlists. That is what waitlists are for. </p>

<p>As has been pointed out by several other posters on this thread who phrased their arguments more cogently than I ever could, nobody ever claimed that the college admission process was fair. This process is based on a vertical hierarchy of power and we - as parents and students - are not on top.</p>

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<p>completely agree with you, asteriskea. I made similar points in my post. It seems that a predominant theme of CC is the high-risk game of college admissions. Anyone double-depositing NOT for "waiting" reasons-- waiting on fin.aid, waitlisted elsewhere -- (which I agree is viewed differently) does so at his/her own risk. Students, families, who assume that their acceptances are untouchable are deluding themselves & are not clear about just who is in the position of power. Acceptances can be rescinded for a variety of reasons. The game is not over 'til it's over.</p>

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<p>Asteriskea: Your comment on the "Internal logical flaws of the above arqument" is silent on the what and why of these "flaws" ?</p>

<p>If you can proclaim a comment, it would be useful if you would be open and express why and how the 'flaws' exist in your opinion.</p>

<p>That the system is unfair is obvious, That is is slanted towards the schools is undeniable, that it is a risk on the student's part is clear.</p>

<p>That it is immoral or unethical is completely and categorically false.</p>

<p>The entire Waitlist game played by the colleges and endorsed by the NACAC is closer to being unethical as the colleges who are 'more selective' prey upon the (usually) smaller or 'less selective' colleges and raid their committed students late in the day with their Waitlist offerings.</p>

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<p>The bottom line is that if you double deposit, you are holding a space at a school that you do not want to attend that could be opened up to a waitlisted candidate. </p>

<p>And when do double-depositers plan to let the college know they won't be coming? Sometimes late in the summer, after waitlisted candidates have made other plans and the college with the deposit has already made housing assignments? Or perhaps by simply not showing up in the fall?</p>

<p>I won't argue "morality" -- the word I have is "selfish". It is selfish to hold on to something you don't want or are not going to use when you know that someone else wants it. </p>

<p>And before you blame the colleges for the waitlist practices: keep in mind that top colleges accept students who they want to attend. The elite colleges are increasingly falling "prey" to the students who submit multiple applictions, rather than narrowing their search to the one they want to attend. It is not Dartmouth's fault that the students they admit prefer Yale if they get in. And when yield falls off at the top, it's not because of the college's practices -- but rather because the students with top stats are now habitually following a more scattershot approach.</p>

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<p>"The bottom line is that if you double deposit, you are holding a space at a school that you do not want to attend that could be opened up to a waitlisted candidate."</p>

<p>Says who? Calmom? Qualifications please.</p>

<p>And then to say</p>

<p>"The elite colleges are increasingly falling "prey" to the students who submit multiple applictions, "</p>

<p>You've got to be kidding. Now, the colleges are VICTIMS ("prey" in calmom's words!) of the applicants?</p>

<p>Pardon me if this pushes my credibility button...</p>

<p>Now, lets look at the "facts":</p>

<p>Colleges are a business. College admissons is part of that business. Yield, summer melt and so forth are part of the admissions part of the business. Any rational college applies rather standard business practices to determine, based on historical and current data, what yield is going to be and what summer melt is going to be. So, they know roughly what percentage will be lost to other schools through waitlists and what percentage will be lost due to nonenrollment, for whatever reason. So no, double depositing does NOT hurt WL students. </p>

<p>So, to say a double deposit takes a space that "that could be opened up to a waitlisted candidate" implies that the college in discussion does not know how to run its business. I know of no college so poorly run that uses waitlists. </p>

<p>If calmom or others have specific, inside knowledge of the business practices of colleges, please post your rebuttal. Otherwise, I'd rather not see you keep flogging this issue. </p>

<p>Isn't it time we agree to disagree and let this issue rest in peace? </p>

<p>The time to influence this years behaviour is long past.</p>

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<p>I made a pretty obvious statement, Newmassdad. If you make a deposit you are holding a space. It doesn't matter what the colleges projected yield is -- once you put down the money the college counts you as as a space that is taken, even if beforehand the college was projecting only a 40% yield. </p>

<p>If the college has a waitlist, then someone else obviously wants that space. </p>

<p>I wonder how you would feel if the colleges started acting like airlines and double-booking instead? That is, how would you like it if your kid arrived on campus in the fall only to be told the college was over-booked and he had been bumped? If well-to-do families continued to game the system by double-depositing, that would be the logical next step for the college. </p>

<p>I note that it would only be the rich families that do this, given the size of the deposits. Obviously, poor families don't have the resources for multiple deposits.</p>

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<p>{If the colleges started double booking and you were a student who arrived at college and found you didn't have a place, would you get your deposit back and start the following year free of charge?}</p>

<p>Calmom, I agree with you. Students have an obligation to make up their minds by May 1st. If they have double deposited, they need to clear one or the other by phone or mail the next working day. If they have been accepted off of the waiting list by a school that they would like to attend, this would be the only reason to have a double deposit in May, and it should be rectified by phone the next working day.
As TheDad has pointed out college choice is the first time we let kids make choices using "live ammunition". Deadlines are part of that "live ammunition" experience.</p>

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<p>"I wonder how you would feel if the colleges started acting like airlines and double-booking instead?"</p>

<p>Actually, colleges do this! </p>

<p>That's why they sometimes end up bunking kids in dorm lounges, for example.</p>

<p>That's why a few elites, in years past, have practically begged kids to defer for a semester or year. </p>

<p>So, I guess I don't care.</p>

<p>Regarding affording deposits, yea, poor families can't afford it. If you were familiar with the costs etc., if financial aid, I suspect you'd also know that the college options for poor kids, ones they can afford, are few and far between anyway.</p>

<p>Honestly, I don't know where you get your information. </p>

<p>Again, can we just disagree, or must you continue a disinformation campaign?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Honestly, I don't know where you get your information.

[/quote]
Who appointed you world expert of college admissions? You are the one with the farfetched theory, so I'd suggest you need to be the one establishing your credentials.</p>

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<p>"I wonder how you would feel if the colleges started acting like airlines and double-booking instead?"</p>

<p>Actually, colleges do this! </p>

<p>Newmassdad is absolutely correct about this. I am the parent of an 18 year old, and when I started college I did not have a dorm room assignment, and was going to be put into a hallway. The reason is b/c they accepted more students than they could accommodate. My mother, known by today's standards as the helicopter parent, got on the phone with a housing supervisor. She let this person know that she expected her D to have a bed, a closet, in a regular dorm room. She expected nothing less for her tuition, and room and board dollar. Guess what suddenly opened up..... a room! I was not able to get that room when I called housing on my own, as an 18 year old. Guess there were always some helicopter parents, even in the dark ages. Nothing has really changed. Today there are helicopter parents (they existed decades ago), and today there are colleges double-booking (this happened many moons ago too). I do understand that colleges do not know how many students will come, so I will cut them some slack, but housing kids in hallways and lounges are not appropriate actions either. They should have immediately placed these students in an inexpensive hotel that exists next to the school (until dorm space became available).</p>

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<p>Those who are defending Colleges and the NACAC from the 'preying' students who cannot get time extensions and need to keep open two acceptance options by 'double deposit' are way off base.</p>

<p>That the colleges might exercise their option to cancel a admission because of 'double deposit' and therefore the student could be left without either acceptance is another example of the power of the colleges and the relative powerless situation for the student.</p>

<p>Deposits are relatively small ($250 - 300) and while it might be hard in the short run for an average or a poor family to make the two deposits, if the end result is a better financial aid package(a reason previously given for one person's double depositing), then the loss of a small deposit is well spent.</p>

<p>Why the assertion that 'double depositing' would only be a 'rich family' game is beyond me.</p>

<p>College admissions office and officers can be very friendly and helpful, and be distant and cold, in all depends on their needs and the college's requirements. </p>

<p>Those who feel that the Adcom's are the student's friend and that the Admission process is set up to benefit the students are so in need of a education in reality IMO.</p>