<p>@poiira Ideally you’d skip out of MATH 125 with AP Calc credit. If you can do that, you’ll do well. If that presents a large struggle, then the 3 semesters of college math are going to suck.</p>
<p>I’m convinced that portfolios are pretty important due to the large volume of qualified applicants to both IMGD and CS (Games). What else could make an app stand out in such a relevant way. Having a complete game in your portfolio is possible if you keep it simple. Using Unity is a good start. Do some tutorials, figure out a simple game you can make, and then once you have the basics see where you can take it. It seems IMGD favors creativity and story telling in the game because SCA admissions officers will review it. I think Viterbi just likes seeing that you creating something that works, but bonus points for being technically complicated. I doubt the VSoE admissions officers are familiar with C#, so just make it fun and look good. Have friends test it for bugs and proper delivery (web player is probably easiest).</p>
<p>The programming gap is usually that big. Any mediocre or better CS (Games) students can program much better than most of the IMGD students. A small amount of the IMGD students are just as good at programming, and it 1. Is usually from self-study or taking many classes, and 2. Sets them up to get some amazing jobs or go Indie successfully. Ex: Asher Vollmer of Threes fame. I know a IMGD grad that got a great job offer before he graduated because he was a designer that could fix the tools when they broke and add in new functionality. A designer/programmer ‘rockstar’. Obviously programming helps in many ways. Taking programming classes to close the gap is <em>not</em> in vain. Every programming class will help. If an IMGD major takes the important CS (Games) classes, such as ITP 380 & 485, then it’ll make them able to develop their own projects and more competitive in industry. </p>
<p>With that said, I think tools such as Unity have helped the programming gap close a decent bit in the last few years, which in turn may explain an improving employment rate. There’s a lot of demand for people who have already been using these industry level tools and creation frameworks. But if employment really has you worried, then google “demand for computer science”.</p>
<p>It would definitely be interesting to do IMGD and then with your ~54 free units, take all of the good courses of the CS (Games) curriculum. If you’re good then you’d be a viable candidate for all kinds of developer jobs. And to make sure that you stay on track you could do the Video Game Programming minor: <a href=“http://itp.usc.edu/minors/Video-Game-Programming/”>http://itp.usc.edu/minors/Video-Game-Programming/</a> Frankly, with that minor, some more programming and algorithms classes, a decent portfolio, and one or two good internships, you’d probably have a full-time job within a month of graduation. </p>
<p>@psydent I also have a Gamasutra subscription (recommended for anyone interested in getting into or currently in the games industry) and saw that salary survey a few weeks ago. It wasn’t so surprising that Game Programmers had a somewhat higher salary than Game Designers. What was more interesting was the higher salary for Game Audio Techs (or whatever they called them). However there weren’t a lot of them in the survey which means there probably aren’t a lot of jobs for them. Do you have any insight there?</p>
<p>BTW This thread is the only one I can get my son to read on CC. And that is because of your very detailed and helpful advice.</p>
<p>Agree @gamergal27 any Viterbi/CS thread is one my son sees, but sometimes I copy/paste a post into an email to be sure he reads it. I am like the secretary (dating myself with that one), he will ask me a question or be discussing something and I transcribe it here. @psydent has been very helpful at our house too. </p>
<p>Game Audio is a cool place to be imo. I’ve never met someone in this field who doesn’t enjoy going to work to make sounds and music everyday (excepting hell-ish crunches ofc). It is a much smaller field and it seems to be more contract driven then most of the others. Usually there’s someone in charge that plans out sound and does concepting. It’s often not appreciated how much audio can add to a game. With an audio asset list, it’s easy for them to get what they need, and it’s cheaper to use outside talent. Some companies do art in a similar way, but art often has more revisions and is developed continuously along with the project, therefore in-house artists make sense. Usually only large studios have in-house audio teams. Once an audio file is done it’s less common to need revisions for it. My guess is that the higher level people responded to the survey so the survey data points represent higher salaries in that area but with a lesser amount of responses.</p>
Hey everyone! It’s been a while, but I wanted to offer some thanks and update with good news! I ended up applying for IMGD, and found out earlier this week that I was accepted for the 2015-2016 year at USC’s School of Cinematic Arts for it! Thanks to everyone who posted advice and shared information with me last summer; your comments really helped inform my decision! And good luck to anyone who may see this in the future!
Congrats! A happy ending
If you have time this summer, learning Unity will get you ahead. I’ve heard it’s used in almost all IMGD classes that involve digital development.
When you get to campus, definitely get involved with MEGA: http://megausc.com/about They usually have a very casual event in the beginning of the semester where you can meet a lot of neat people. Then don’t worry if you get busy with college stuff. No one cares if you only show up once a year. MEGA is very welcoming. If it interests you, be involved with it when it’s convenient for you.
Huge congratulations, @poiira, and thanks for the happy update! From what I can tell (my son graduated IMGD in 2013), the program just gets more and more amazing. I think you’re in for an an incredible ride!
Hey there guys! I actually have a question myself similar to OP’s, so I figured I’d just post it here:
I got into Interactive Media as well for the fall semester, which I am super excited about, but I am also considering getting a bachelor of science in CS (Games). This is partly due to the fact that I’ve heard programming in IMGD isn’t the strongest, and also because I feel like gaining those CS skills, as well as a bachelor of science, would greatly help me out down the road (broader skillset = more flexibility). It’s kind of like IMGD is the more fun, creative side, while CS (Games) is the more technical side. Having both would be the best of both worlds, right?
However, I would like to pose the question: is this feasible? I’m almost certain it couldn’t be done in 4 years, but could it be done in 5? Is having a bachelor of science in CS to go along with a bachelor of arts in IMGD worth it, skill-wise? Yes, I know there are minors in programming/CS, but would it be better to have a bachelor of science to gain a more well-rounded experience, as well as to have some sort of “proof” to show for my efforts?
I plan to talk to an advisor about this notion when I get there, but I thought it couldn’t hurt to ask for opinions here as well. Thanks!
I think you need to plot out the curriculum for both (they are easily available on the USC website). You might be able to do it in five years including Summer. Obviously you only need to take the 8 GEs once plus the 2 writing classes. And there is overlap in courses between the two proposed majors. But there are so many required and sequential courses in CS (Games) that I think it will be difficult to schedule everything correctly.
You know, if you feel the CS degree is most important to potential future employment, it would save you a lot of money to get your BS in CS(Games) and get your minor in IMGD. The benefit is that CS does not require 3 semester of a FL, while IMGD (BA) does. You can do this degree in 4 years. You need to consider the cost of attending USC for a 5th year. Merit awards only cover 4 years, as does FA I believe (check on this). And taking one more year of undergrad courses means you are not out in the world earning money. If USC costs you $60K and your first year’s salary (conservative estimate) is 60K, it actually costs you an additional $120K to get a second bachelors. Of course, if you can place out of all 3 semesters (AP exam with high enough score), and if you get the maximum credit for AP courses to sub for GEs (that’s 2), it may only take an extra semester. But these are things you can talk over with your advisor.
@someusckid I’ve written a lot about this scenario in the past. I recommend looking at those threads to get a large picture.
For your specific decision, are you dedicated to wanting to be a designer? Because then majoring in IMGD and minoring in CS and/or getting the Video Game Programming minor (http://itp.usc.edu/minors/Video-Game-Programming/) will put you in a good position. However, design jobs are rarer and if you don’t find one then you’re a weak* programmer candidate compared to CS grads so can’t easily hop to game programming roles and would likely have to go QA, Indie, Contract*, or some non-game employment.
Unless you’re a good programmer and have a portfolio. But that takes effort going beyond classes.
* Maybe you’re a talented artist, which is definitely a plus, but most entry-level artists work contract unless they’re lucky and find a full-time gig. However, then you have to be better than the actual game art candidates - it’s competitive!
If you’d be ok being a programmer, then majoring in CSGM will allow you to go into the game industry, which has more technical roles, or as a backup can go into non-games programming which is also a field in demand of talent. A programmer can put on their designer hat whenever they want. For example, when I was working on a class project our designer got bogged down with traversal mechanics and level design so I took on designing our input and UI. Then of course I had to implement it the next week!
Why I think
double majoring is a waste of time, money, etc and
why programmers can be better designers than designers can be programmers:
Look at the courses required for each major. Look at the overlap for game courses. CSGM is required to take the most important game design courses, such as CTIN 488 and 484/489. Therefore CSGM majors will also have a solid design foundation. IMGD is NOT required to take the most important CSGM courses, such as CS 103 and 104 and ITP 380. Therefore IMGD majors will not necessarily have a solid CS foundation (the exception being when they take these courses or teach themselves programming).
At the end of the day, programmers know how to implement systems and the step before that is designing them. We’re trained to think in systems and abstractions. Designers know how to design systems, but don’t usually go to that next step of implementation unless they go beyond what is required of them or do prototyping. Because of this, many designers struggle with scoping because their ‘simple’ idea might take weeks to prototype.
Final notes: I don’t think a CSGM major can get an IMGD minor because of the multiple overlap with CTIN courses. However, I think an IMGD major can get a CS minor because there’s only 1 overlap.
Any of my or other CC users old posts referencing Schrader should now reference Ryan Rozan, who’s info is here: http://www.cs.usc.edu/academics/undergrad/minor.htm
Just to clarify, I’m not trying to bash on designers. I’ve worked with many good ones. I’m just pointing out things that are generally true and you should consider. And if you go IMGD, then keep them in mind so you can become a great designer. The really good designers are ones that have gone beyond entry level and know how to scope and prototype, by working on many games and having years of experience. That’s one reason why within industry veteran designers are highly respected. Their skill makes the whole team’s job easier.
@psydent You are correct that CSGM majors cannot, technically, get an IMGD minor because of the overlap. I believe you need 16 unique credits to do that and because of overlap there are only 12. My son will still take the 12 and figure out a way to talk about his “minor” in interviews (which is a long way off).
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