Double Major/Degree: Music

<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>I'm a sophomore in high school. So I've recently gotten really into piano, and I'm almost sure it's what I want to do in life. I want to try to go to a top conservatory, spend all my time on music, and go as far as I can. However, my parents are against majoring solely in music. I am not one of those prodigies, and I know I am not one of the top in the nation or world in piano. They want me to do a double major at the very least, and won't listen to any arguments. This seriously restricts my options in terms of good college programs or conservatories. I know there are programs such as Juilliard/Columbia, NEC/Harvard, Princeton/Royal College, Peabody/JHU, etc. but am not very clear on the specifics of these programs.</p>

<p>So could you explain these programs a little more in detail, including what majors besides music would be available, the selectivity, etc?</p>

<p>Also, are there any more of these programs that include good academic universities and conservatories? (Northwestern is another one, as well as Eastman/Rochester and Oberlin) Also, suggestions of good universities with good undergrad music programs would be nice too.</p>

<p>Finally, could someone explain the Princeton program? I know you can't double major in princeton, so would that be a possible option for me?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>Please go over to the Music Major forum and browse through pages of old threads. There are many many threads discussing your issue - as well as a pinned list at the top of recommended programs. For instance, just recently the Princeton program was explained in depth.</p>

<p>However, the first thing you should do is read this mandatory post from Peabody on the differences between double degree, double majors, minors etc.<a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html”>http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Here’s the link to jump to the forum: <a href=“Music Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Ok, sorry I did not know there was this sub-forum! I am new to this place, and did not think of searching.</p>

<p>Sorry, but could you link to the thread where Princeton was discussed? For some reason, I can’t find it.</p>

<p><a href=“Any info on Princeton's BA/MM program with the Royal Conservatory? - Music Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1705269-any-info-on-princetons-ba-mm-program-with-the-royal-conservatory-p1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Welcome. Many of us don’t use search very often or effectively so no worries.</p>

<p>I was going to post the Peabody essay entitled “The Double Degree Dilemma” but Spirit Manager posted it above. Make sure to read that and show your parents. (There are many double degree programs; I would add Lawrence and Bard, Peabody/Johns Hopkins, Harvard or Tufts/NEC, Michigan…there are others…).</p>

<p>Many young people post on here that their parents are opposed to a music major or want a “backup” major or plan. In this day and age of high education costs and debt, that may seem reasonable. But the responses on this forum usually disagree with that attitude, and most of us would tell your parents that they can take the leap of faith and support your majoring in music, whether for a BM in a conservatory/music school (usually preferable for piano) or a BA in a college or university.</p>

<p>A music degree is respected by many employers and grad schools; they know that musicians have a lot of discipline and a great work ethic. Music majors have the same access to employment and careers as any other bachelor’s degree and also access to grad schools, medicine, law or business school, and so on (a long as prerequ’s are met; for med school that can mean sciences between BM and med school). Interning during school years can help too, and work in music organizations is easily transferable to other non-profits. Of course, music degree-holders can also try to get funding for continuation of studies in grad school as well, and many do.</p>

<p>The music world has been changing, with online funding opportunities, self-publishing and promotion, and many other entrepreneurial efforts. Many musicians free lance in chamber music in small ensembles, teach, do outreach, curate and so on. You can also go on to music education or therapy grad schools.</p>

<p>The main thing, I think, is to consider your chances for admission (perhaps your teacher can help with this, and, when the time comes, you can do sample lessons at schools you may want to apply to). You are a sophomore, so keep working hard and also keep your options open in case your interests change.</p>

<p>Main message: a BM performance degree at a conservatory is well-respected, opens doors in music and in other fields, and is as good a preparation for the world of work or grad school as any other bachelor’s.</p>

<p>I still hold onto the idea that the 4 undergrad years should be a chance to explore what you truly love. College is moving toward a more vocational focus and that is appropriate for some fields, like engineering or nursing. Conservatory can be seen as vocational training, but it really is so much more. Despite financial pressures, it is still legitimate to see the college/conservatory years as a time to learn and develop as a person and musician. </p>

<p>Hi CompMom, thank you for the thorough and great response.</p>

<p>I have read the essay, but I don’t think it is something that will convince my parents. They remain stuck on the idea that once you major in music, that’s all you can do in life. Either that or become homeless.</p>

<p>I will continue and try to convince my parents, like you said. I also definitely plan to take some sample lessons with different teachers to decide on the college or conservatory that would fit me.</p>

<p>However, I do not hold much hope in terms of convincing my parents. It is extremely frustrating, but if I start talking about only having a music major, they usually get PO’ed at me, and repeat what they’ve said, except louder and angrier so that I’m usually too scared to argue back :D</p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong, I do realize that my parents are doing what they think is best for me, and are trying to give me a solid life that I can live comfortably in. It’s just frustrating, is all, because I don’t think that taking only a music major would lead to all the tragedies that they say will happen.</p>

<p>There are a number of threads about students whose parents are not very supportive of the student’s musical ambitions, but this one might resonate with you and offer some perspective/strategies: <a href=“Unsupportive parent - Music Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1437797-unsupportive-parent-p1.html&lt;/a&gt;. The OP of that thread ended up at Rice, which has a truly excellent music school.</p>

<p>There are also a number of threads about joint degree programs and universities with good music programs. One list I found on the internet that I think is a pretty good one can be found at this link: <a href=“http://www.hbms.org/pdf/Hoff-college-list-handout.pdf”>Academic Year Calendar - Hoff-Barthelson Music School. It was compiled by a music school in Scarsdale, NY, so it’s somewhat weighted towards the eastern part of the country, but I think it’s a good place to start.</p>

<p>If you’re serious about pursuing music, but have only “recently gotten really into piano”, your first order of business is to get as good on your instrument as you possibly can over the next couple of years. All the schools/programs you’ve mentioned are quite competitive and you will need to be playing at a very high level to have a serious shot at them. And, as I’m sure you know, schools like Harvard, Princeton, Columbia and JHU are also quite selective academically, which makes admission to these joint programs even more difficult. The Harvard/NEC and Columbia/Juilliard programs take only a handful of students - maybe 6-8 each - a year. </p>

<p>As a sophomore, you have some time, but the time will go quickly. Hopefully your piano teacher can help give you some guidance, including with respect to what range of schools are realistic for your level. You could also think about a gap year, which would give you more time to develop musically before auditions (though my guess is that your parents might resist that idea).</p>

<p>In any event, best of luck - and continue posting. There are a lot of parents in this forum with a lot of experience, so you should be able to get some good advice as you travel down this path.</p>

<p>[Edited to fix link.]</p>

<p>Does your piano teacher say that you should apply to conservatories? Have you done any summer programs? Do you have a way to assess your chances? Being competitive for admission is everyone’s first priority when thinking about where to apply and for what major.</p>

<p>Conservatories are expensive. Since your parents are opposed to music studies, if you qualify for financial aid, you would probably want to limit yourself to music schools/conservatories within universities/colleges, which would mean schools like Oberiln, Lawrence, Bard (double degree required if you are in the conservatory), Ithaca, Hartt , MIchigan and so on.For a double degree program like Harvard/NEC, you pay a tuition to both schools, though I think the amount for NEC is maybe $7k or so for the years you would be at Harvard; at the schools listed above there would be no separate tuition.</p>

<p>Basically, it is hard for us to answer you without an idea of your level of playing, and more information on your academic strengths and interests. Do you have other academic subjects that interest you? Have you taken any music theory or history so that you know what a music curriculum is like? What locations do you prefer? Will you need aid?</p>

<p>If your main interest remains music, you can also do a BA Program at a college as a general music major, with less focus on performance or even no performance at all, in the actual classes. It is an academic major. Or a BA program in another major. In either case, you could then continue private lessons, and play in extracurriculars or even off campus. There are people who do this, including some top musicians. Sometimes lessons are available on campus, sometimes not, and sometimes students doing it this way still study with a top teacher from a nearby conservatory, though privately. This would take some ability to connect with a teacher and even some ability to pay. But might be a way to stay in music with your parents’ support - and satisfy them.</p>

<p>You can apply to colleges/universities as an undecided, attend music and other classes once on campus, then declare a major later, usually in sophomore year. Many do not require submission of recording or audition either. On the other hand, if you apply to conservatory/music school, you will obviously be headed for music performance, will need to submit recordings, and do an audition- all of which may require your parents’ support. </p>

<p>In other words, you might be able to make a BA program work for you, even if, right now, you would prefer a BM program.</p>

<p>Is there anyone who can talk with your parents? One thing I used to cite is that as a group, music majors had the highest acceptance rate at medical school versus any other major, at 66%. That was a few years ago so the specific statistic is outdated, but you get the idea.</p>

<p>BA programs are not necessarily geared to specific careers, but instead give breadth and depth of skills in reading, writing, research, analysis and organization as well as content in specific areas-- all of which are appreciated by employers. An academic music degree is one of the harder humanities majors and involves history, musicianship, aural skills, theory,composition, ethnomusicology, musicology, technology and so on. It is an impressive degree and results in very good employability. You can go to any grad program. You can also continue in music, in academia.</p>

<p>Would your parents also be opposed to, say, and English or history major?</p>

<p>A BM program is more geared to a career in performance, but can also lead to other careers in and out of music. one friend we have graduated in trombone but works for Sesame Street. Another works in a law office. Another in arts administration, and has done other non-profit work. It does not limit you. But obviously many doing a BM want to be professional performers. Many can perform on a free lance basis while working at something else.</p>

<p>Again, it is hard to advise you without knowing your level or your other interests. But if you love music, there can be many ways to do it. If your parents outright forbid major in music, that is a tough call and I hope someone can talk with them. I think it is misguided but many parents these days want to know they will get a return on investment and want their kids to do, say, STEM majors. Good luck!</p>

<p>p.s. Forgot to mention that a state university could work for you as well. They often have BM and BA programs. You could audition at the outset or, again, get on campus with your parents’ blessing then perhaps try to transfer over to the conservatory later!!</p>

<p>I think many parents, especially those who are not part of the music world, would benefit from participating on this forum. It allows them the chance to educate themselves and ask questions - sometimes a better process than the student being the middle man. You might ask your parents if they would like to have the opportunity to chat and discuss schools, double-degree or any other questions they have. There is a great mix of students, parents, teachers and even school reps who are more than glad to provide input about their experiences, jobs, or first-hand knowledge. </p>

<p>Thanks everyone for helping me out!</p>

<p>@POTO Mom: that is a very good point. I will talk with my parents. Looking back, I get how having another person, other than the child, talk to parents about this stuff might give them a new perspective.</p>

<p>@CompMom: thanks once again for such a detailed reply! I do not really want to get into music unless it was performance, as piano playing is really what I love (but I hope to be a piano teacher one day). My parents aren’t forbidding a music major, just requesting a double major at least, if I do music.</p>

<p>I realize that an indication of my level of playing would help in people’s responses. However, this is basically impossible through the Internet. I could list pieces I’m playing, competitions, etc, but that doesn’t give much insight into how well I play either. I did a summer program this summer, and plan to enter a lot more (bigger) competitions and camps this summer and coming year.</p>

<p>I have talked with my teacher about conservatories (also mentioning that I’d have to have a double major). She mentioned a few conservatories, and we’ve also begun planning audition repertoire.</p>

<p>Having just started taking a serious interest in piano, I am below the level required for those with a serious chance at being admitted to juilliard, curtis, etc. The summer program I went to (IIYM) has been an eye opener for me. However, since then, I have been putting in serious hours each day on the piano, and hopefully I will get much better in 2 years. In just a few months of more serious practicing, I believe I have already made huge improvement in my playing.</p>

<p>Thanks jazzpianodad, for those links. I’ll be sure to check them out</p>

<p>Edit: thinking about it, maybe my parents also just need time to get used to the fact that I want to major in piano.</p>