I often see the advice on CC to students to not double up on science courses in HS, to the point that people are telling kids it’s “suicide”. For kids who are interested in STEM, that is what their college curriculum is going to look like so, I’m curious as to why people feel it’s “too much” in high school. (And I’m not talking about kids who haven’t taken their other core requirements or foreign language, but those that have actual room to do extra).
For the record, it was common in my daughter’s high school for kids to double up in their areas of interest and students were still very successful.
Even in college, it’s often considered unwise to take two lab sciences and a math in the same term freshman year. Plus there’s some natural progression of growing into rigor; just as you might not suggest the same course load to a HS sophomore as to a HS senior, you might not suggest the same load to a HS senior as to a college sophomore.
That said, my kid doubled up on science (one AP, one honors) last year due to a scheduling issue, and it worked out fine. I think it’s not uncommon at her school, either.
My d19 doubled up on sciences last year and will again this coming senior year. I think it can be fine.
Mostly I see people urging caution to students wanting to double up on AP science courses, especially AP Bio and AP Chem. Those are tough courses to double up on.
Last year, my d took AP Chem and Honors Physics, as did most of her STEM friends. It was a great combo. This coming year, she is taking AP Physics C and Forensics Science (a DE Chem credit attached).
You may have read my posts advising on this. The only science courses that I advise doubling up on are AP Bio and AP Chem The reason is that each of those courses is challenging on its own by virtue of being AP, but more importantly, each is a huge time suck with labs and the corresponding lab reports. At many schools, each course is either double-blocked, or ore requires attendance at before- or after-school classes to do labs. AP Physics C almost falls into that category, but doesn’t for me because there are fewer labs.
Otherwise, IMO, doubling up on sciences is fine, provided that it is not done at the expense of another core subject.
AP science courses in our school have labs that alternate with NY’s required PE requirement. It’s hard to fit it all in unless you take PE in zero period. But if you are in the arts program the arts focus will meet in that zero period. My older son got in an extra science by taking regular chemistry the summer after freshman year, but that was more about weird scheduling issues, and his lack of interest in doing anything else productive that summer, than trying to get ahead. He took AP Comp Sci and Honors Physics concurrently for what that is worth.
Other schools may schedule things differently so it is easier.
At our school if there is a class that is needed for graduation you don’t have to take PE. 4 years of English is needed for graduation so that frees a period. So it’s is fairy common to take AP Chemistry and AP Bio. My daughter plans to do that in her senior year and she is not STEM. The school I think puts the classes back to back so its over three periods.
My opinion…in High School…your kid is IN school from say 7:45 to 3 everyday. The schedule is jam packed during th school day, and also you kid might just have after school activities as well.
In college…the schedule is not daily, with times to study, and manage your coursework in a different way.
It’s pretty common at our hs to have 2 science classes per year for a couple of years for STEM kids, but we have a bit biotech program that’s almost all lab and very little homework, so a typical kid might have something like: 9th grade - regular biology; 10th - regular chem and biotech 1/2; 11th - AP physics 1 and biotech 3/4; 12th - ap bio and independent research in biotech. We also have APES and AP Chem so some kids even triple up some years (or don’t do biotech all 3 years, or do ap chem instead of ap bio senior year, etc).
My daughter did AP chem with AP Physics C senior year, plus Organic Chem and loved it. She did often have to go in before or after school though for labs but that’s what she enjoys the most.
My daughter is a freshman engineering student now and has Calc, Chem, and Engineering physics/design in addition to her other two classes. Chem and eng physics/design both have labs (eng physics/design is the most time consuming, meeting for 2 hours/3 days per week and is mostly project/lab based). So far she’s loving it all but of course it’s only the 3rd day ; ). In looking forward in her curriculum, she’ll always have two lab classes/semester + math. She thinks she wants to do R&D as a career though so that it a big positive to her (at least for now!).
My daughter’s school also had an easy PE requirement - just two semesters total. All freshman took one semester of PE and then the other semester was the mandatory health class. Nearly all the kids in the top 20% took the second semester of PE in the summer between freshman and sophomore year to free up the slot for an academic class.
The only crummy thing, IMO, was that after sophomore year, there was really no room for fine arts/music as a class period if a kid wanted to get the “highest rigor” box checked off. My daughter was still able to pursue her music as an EC but I would have liked to have seen her continue with music as a class. My daughter, along with the head of the AP program, pushed me hard to have her drop music between sophomore and junior year. In the end it was her choice but as an avid band geek myself, that was a tough pill for me to swallow.
It is difficult, but not impossible, to double up on science at DD’s school. Gym is required all four years. You are allowed to eliminate the gym requirement senior year only - if you have no study hall and there is a class you need for college (no pass is given for high school requirements). At that point, however, you’re switching out a class that has no homework for one that likely does, and doing it in a year in which college applications are due (and no study hall).
As to why you might be advised against doubling up in high school science classes… you might consider that college classes particularly in the STEM arena are usually of better quality and depth than offered by most AP classes in high school. One AP science class for each of junior and senior years (taken with other APs) is sufficient to prove you can do college level work. After that, you might get more depth and scope from actual college classes. Use the free period to take an AP class that could knock off any foreign language or humanities requirements IF the schools you hope to attend will give you credits or exemptions for them. Likewise, if you want to study humanities in college, get your science requirements knocked out by taking AP science classes in high school. No matter what you study, the course selection in college is bound to be more interesting and extensive than any high school will offer. So that’s one strategy anyway. It depends on the individual student’s goals.
It certainly wouldn’t hurt to double up in sciences in high school, provided you can get all your core requirements in and you are forewarned as to the workload and homework requirements of your schedule as a whole.
My daughter didn’t double up to necessarily place out of any classes but more to have a better foundation and understanding going into college classes. She did opt to use her math AP to place into a higher level calc class and she is in honors physics/engr. She is in the regular chem for chemical engineers though, and didn’t think at all about trying to skip that class.
Her other APs/DEs got her out of all kinds of general ed requirements which was a huge bonus for her. She is actually considered a second semester sophomore which at her school helps for priority in scheduling courses (only one class shy of being classified a junior). She could potentially co-op and still graduate with her class, have room for a minor, and the option for a lighter course load the semesters she has to take thermo or one of the other more challenging engineering classes. She liked the flexibility APs gave her and IMO, it hopefully has prepared her a bit more for the rigors of engineering in general.
YMMV though depending on where your child goes to school. Public flagships tend to be very generous with AP credit.
9. I can't believe the AP program told you to drop the music. My daughter is in band and two May graduates from band are going to University of Chicago and Stanford.
9 I can't believe it, either! Our top ranked by weighted GPA kids are usually band and orchestra kids, even though band and orchestra are both weighted as on-level classes. The kid who is just starting at MIT this fall was an orchestra kid.
A lot of it depends on what other ap or honors courses are being taken, especially non-stem ones, in junior year you typically take APUSH, APLAC and a honors foreign language for the highly selective colleges. Taking those three plus an AP in Calc or Stats and ap or honors science is already a lot. Adding another science, which is usually an AP is usually not recommended. Of course if you’re not taking one of the non-stem APs, two sciences may be fine. Now if you’re Einstein (greatest theoretical physicist) or Pasteur (maybe the greatest biochemist), you won’t have too much problems, but you still have to go to lab, as others have pointed out on this thread :-).
It’s really dependent on the kid. My D took 5 science classes (provided you count AP Psychology, otherwise 4) her senior year of HS and it was her favorite year by far.
My son is taking honors chemistry 2, honors physics 2 and AP calc in senior year. Will see how he manages…
I was shocked too about the music but it was disappointingly just not a focus at my daughter’s school. Didn’t help that they went through 4 music directors in the 4 years my daughter was there! Thankfully the theater program was strong and her private piano teacher amazing, so lots of performance and accompanying opportunities. I was most sad though that she had to drop violin/orchestra after playing for so many years but because so many kids were also dropping, the orchestra was not very good.
In our curriculum science in grades 9 & 10 covers all the major science strands and then they break out into individual courses, Bio, Chem, & Physics for grades 11 & 12. It is extremely common for students to take all 3 sciences both in grades 11 & 12. My son did all 3 at the Pre-AP level this past year for grade 11. This coming year for grade 12 he will be taking AP Chem and AP Physics, dropping Bio as he doesn’t enjoy it. He will also be taking in addition Pre-AP Pre-Calc and AP Calc BC. Many of his friends ares will be taking all 3.
At Canadian universities taking 2 lab sciences and math in the same term freshman year is the norm for science students. Most schools here are direct admit to your major or you declare at the end of first year. Either way for those intending to major in science, you need the first year pre-requisites to be able to continue to 2nd year. Most programs will require 2 semesters of 2 sciences (which ones depends on which science you intend to pursue) and calculus plus some times 1 semester of linear algebra. The schools that favour a common first year for all science students will require students to take 2 semesters of all 3 sciences and calculus before declaring their major since it serves as a common first year regardless of intended major. UBC would be an example where first year science students are required to take all 3 sciences.