"“Here’s how schools do it: by freeing prospective students from having to provide SAT and ACT scores, they tend to attract more applicants, many of whom may have scored poorly on the tests. … For the colleges, more applicants mean more students they can reject, which lowers their acceptance rate and raises the institution’s perceived selectivity.” http://hechingerreport.org/the-real-reason-that-colleges-go-test-optional/
SMH.
OP, she looks like a good candidate and stronger without scores, so go for it. If she took AP exams and did well (4 or 5), I would submit those as demonstration that the good grades do indeed reflect mastery of the material.
4’s and (especially) 5’s on AP’s also would qualify her for many unis in the UK/Ireland if she is a self-starter and knows what she wants to study already (and won’t change her mind).
My D1 had lopsided scores and is attending a test optional school (Smith). She thought a lot about her scores and whether to send them or not. She decided to send them because it is part of who she is. Her math score is in the bottom quarter (by a long shot) but her writing and reading are right at the top quarter. She also sent in two AP scores she had on file (both 5s). It’s hard to say how any of these colleges select a class. Yes, they may be playing the system to appear more selective. Or maybe they recognize that academic talent may come in different shapes and sizes and, heaven forbid, different test scores.
I see nothing wrong with submitting or not submitting scores. Can’t overthink this. Focus on fit - where will she likely be the most successful. Even that ends up being a guess. If her scores are all in the lower quartile, don’t submit them. If not, consider submitting. No downside to TO schools at all.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek sorry what’s “TO”?
@suzyQ7 Test optional.
Fwiw, I should clarify that I have no horse in this race. As homeschoolers TO schools require test scores, so when I was listening to his presentation, none of it applied to us.
He was pretty emphatic. It came across as he was annoyed by the suggestions that they didn’t mean TO when they say they are.
I agree with @zobroward, and I recall reading it also benefits them with students they accept who don’t submit scores, as they don’t have to figure those (likely lower) scores into the accepted/admitted students data they report. Is that correct?
So, very similar to ED, benefits the student some but the college more.
Not correct. I believe IPEDS requires them after they matriculate. I know Wesleyan does.
FWIW, the mean average SAT rose there along with the number of applicants. Why, is a matter of speculation. My personal theory is that the stronger test-takers now realize they have a hook of sorts and may be applying in larger numbers, either through ED or RD.
- How many people look at IPED? The main thing is whether they figure in to the numbers used by USNews.
- How would IPED even get scores of those students who didn’t send in scores?
Seems IPEDS does not collect them. The colleges can, then decide how to include them in the freshman profile for matriculants.
Personally, I wish we could have some discussions about admissions practices that don’t include reference to US News. I get that it’s important to many people. Sure, I take a look for where my kids’ school lands. But I have never heard the adcoms I know discuss it in a group context. They’re more concerned with what peer institutions are doing, how that may affect student decisions and the yield they aim for.
Sure, maybe some other tiers like to let US News guide them. But we really don’t know much about that. A university, even a medium sized LAC, is a mighty big ship to run, with lots of considerations that originate in their own yards.
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There are several relevant factors that contribute to the reasons for going test optional. Earlier in the thread, I posted Ithaca’s internal test optional study, which was important in their decision to go test optional – http://www.ithaca.edu/ir/docs/testoptionalpaper.pdf . I chose Ithaca as a representative because it was mentioned in the original post of this thread. The study found that including test scores in the application only improved their predictive accuracy of Ithaca student’s GPA by 1% above an application without test scores. The only SAT section that had a statistically significant effect improving prediction of academic success beyond the rest of the application was the SAT writing section, which no longer exists. After the test optional policy was implemented, overall applications increased, in particular among URMs. This led to the most diverse class in the college’s history, immediately following going test optional. IPEDS suggests a >60% increase in African American. Reported test scores changed as listed below, after going test optional. Yes, the 25th percentile increased, but not by a ridiculous amount that will distort USNWR rankings.
Year before Test Optional – 520/630 and 530/640
First year of Test Optional – 540/630 and 540/640
I could also list numbers for certain other colleges that suggest less altruistic reasons for going test optional, including placing a strong emphasis on test scores among those applying who have high scores or meeting few claimed goals from the policy. My point is that all colleges aren’t like that. It’s what I expect is a small subsection.
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Not sure how USNews obtains their numbers. I assume they come from the college.
.Apparently, they are not required by IPEDS. Wesleyan’s 2015 aptitude test scores (the first year of being test-optional) are displayed in brackets on its Common Data Set page.
How can they collect them if the test is not taken?
I guess they can’t. It then becomes a question of whether the matriculant is willing to risk having their acceptance rescinded over something so minor as Wesleyan’s desire for institutional research.
Do test optional colleges give merit aid to students who don’t submit test scores?
@craspedia Yes, some do at least.
@craspedia Yes – Denison, Earlham, Kalamazoo, Knox, Lawrence and Beloit all give substantial merit (roughly 1/2 tuition, in our experience) without test scores. Dickinson gives its bottom tier award, last I checked $10,000 a year, without test scores but requires scores for the higher tiers.
Thanks @Midwestmomofboys and @PNWedwonk
Any ideas about Smith, Mt Holyoke, Bard, Sarah Lawrence, Skidmore, Bryn Mawr?
For a kid with a 3.95 uw GPA (4.5ish weighted)
Is this data anywhere I can research online? Thanks!
In our experience, Mount Holyoke gives merit without test scores, but I had a discussion with Financial Aid at admitted student day that led me to believe that it is easier to get it with scores. I said something to the effect of “Oh, if we knew that, she would have sent them.” Then, at the end of April, D asked for more aid and got a big bump up, all merit (without submitting the scores.) D was an IB Diploma candidate and was at that point totally on track to get the diploma (awarded over the summer) so that may have helped. D’s scores were fine, but she hated the tests and if they weren’t going to raise the schools’ averages she didn’t submit them if she didn’t have to. DK about the other schools. We were told by a counselor/friend that Muhlenberg would want scores for merit so D submitted them there (and got merit.)