<p>Hispanics who are first generation Americans (and whose parents didn't attend college) also attend college at a lower rate than 1st generation Asians or Europeans.>></p>
<p>Again, be careful of grouping people together too broadly. A first generation "Asian" student from Cambodia or Viet Nam can face very different social, cultural, and financial issues than a first generation "Asian" student from China or Korea. And, I know of plenty of low income WHITE students to whom heading off to college is a major challenge as well.</p>
<p>
[quote]
That Hispanics that go to elite colleges (hell, even non-elite colleges) are generally middle class or upper middle class.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
When the above-mentioned kids apply to the elite schools... it is they who are soaking up sexy affirmative action. Look at the first-generation college student statistics colleges brag about. Brown went up to 15%? Dartmouth 15%? (May be a bit off, but I know the latter is for sure.) But "people of color" make up more than that! These minorities are upper-middle class kids with parents who attended college... not their counterparts.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There is a great danger in making such gross generalizations: idle speculation!</p>
<p>Despite data not being the plural of anecdote, allow me to share that I just attended the graduation and commencement for two local high schools. Since the schools distributed documents showing the top 10% of the class, their college acceptances, as well as a listing of the scholarships earned, it was pretty easy to see the financial ability of the families and the academic success of the student. Listings that included Pell and SEOG grants were dead give-aways, as well as the occasional scholarships from schools that do NOT offer merit assistance. </p>
<p>From this small sample of about 30 students, I can report that the students on their way to attending elite schools such as MIT, Stanford, Princeton, Yale, and the Columbia of this world are NOT upper middle class families that live in homes where Spanish is hardly spoken. From the 30 students, more than half had parents who do not speak a single word of English, except for "thank you" or "sorry."</p>
<p>Hispanics or Latinos --the differences being entirely trivial-- do indeed face strong socio-economic and cultural challenges. It is, however, unrealistic to claim that only middle and upper class families break the vicious cycles of limited education and poverty.</p>
<p>I couldn't help but to make those generatlization, I mean... they're so on the mark. I was my school's Val, and it seems everytime I went to something in the my county where the top whatever students from each school went, and I would find a fellow Latino, some random generalization seemed to fit. </p>
<p>I hate using anecdotes...but whatever. </p>
<p>How can one explain the difference between the first-generation college student numbers at some of the top schools, and the minority enrollment?</p>
<p>
[quote]
There is a great danger in making such gross generalizations: idle speculation!
[/quote]
I don't presume to know where you came from - but I'll explain where I came from. My school was 30% Hispanic, 10% Asian and 60% White. It was the top public in the area (but the other two were also quite good). Within my classes (the highest level at the school) it was virtually all white or asian. The few hispanics in those classes were white (ie: from Mexico, white as a sheet and reasonably well off). I would tend to think this is not the exception, but the norm.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The definition of the word "Hispanic" as used by the White House, clearly shows that the Portuguese are not to be considered Hispanic. It defines "Hispanic" as "a person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race." </p></li>
<li><p>The Census Bureau also advised that the Portuguese should not choose "Hispanic" in the census. Therefore, when filling out the Census, the Portuguese should pick "not of Hispanic origin" in the ethnicity question just like all other non-Hispanics, and "white" in the race question, since "white" people are to be defined as people "having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, North Africa, or the Middle East." </p></li>
<li><p>However, not all departments of the government seem to agree with the White House on how to classify the Portuguese culture. In the Library of Congress for example, Portuguese culture is located under the "Hispanic Division." Portuguese-American Congressman Tony Coelho was listed under the "Hispanic-Americans in Congress" section. </p></li>
<li><p>Are the 150 millions Brazilians NOT latinos? </p></li>
<li><p>Websters’ used to define the word Hispanic as meaning "relating to or derived from the speech or culture of Spain or of Spain and Portugal." </p></li>
<li><p>For every expert claiming Portugal is not Hispanic since they do not speak Spanish, you'll find another claiming the opposite since both Spain and Portugal form the Iberic Peninsula and were part of Hispania.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>PS The Common Application cuts through this gordian knot by having ONE line for Hispanics and Latinos.</p>
<p>From the dscussions to date one can se the multiple reasons for the low Hispanic numbers.
What suprised me was the 40-41% mentioned for whites.
Looks like some of the same issues affecting Hispanics also affect all the other races.
The article could have easily been writen to show the suprisingly low matricul;ation rates for american students.
I somehow always pictured the rate for whites @ higher than 70%.</p>
<p>Interesting discussion but one that leaves some popular misrepresentations unaddressed. For example, the term Hispanic is not one of 'racial' definition. Persons of Hispanic hertiage can be of any race.</p>
<p>Getting back to the college experience, in my undergraduate days at Columbia University, in the main the Latino students were well established Cuban-Americans and Mexican-Americans, typically from the southwest and not California. The children of professionals. A classmate was the son of an affluent rancher from Texas. The kids from New Mexico seemed to be the most elite. The largest student group was the Chicano Caucus, as opposed to the Caribbean Latinos (Puero Rican, Domincan), who didn't necessarily see much commonality with the Caribbeans, South Americans etc.</p>
<p>fabrizio.... i take it u are hispanic...but no, i didn't flip it, u did.</p>
<p>Official use of the term Hispanic has its origins in the 1970 United States Census. The Census Bureau attempted to identify all Hispanics by use of the following criteria in sampled sets: [7]</p>
<p>Spanish speakers and persons belonging to a household where Spanish was spoken[citation needed]
Persons with Spanish heritage by birth location[citation needed]
Persons who self-identify with Spanish ancestry or descent </p>
<p>The English word Latino (Latina is the feminine form) may have derived from the Spanish word latinoamericano [1] and most often refers to inhabitants of Latin America, and their descendents in the United States. It is the abbreviated use of 'Latin-American'; Francophone Canadians are not normally referred to as Latino, even though they speak a Romance language.</p>
<p>I am still wondering WHY people find the difference between the terms Hispanics and Latino important in the context of college admissions. </p>
<p>If one looks for guidance, would it not be better to follow a source related to education as opposed to look at the nebulous, arcane, and poorly defined definition of the ... Census?</p>
<p>So, what does the NCES at the Department of Education use? Let's look at the source: </p>
<p>Hispanic (old definition) A person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. </p>
<p>Hispanic or Latino (new definition) A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race. </p>
<p>From this definition, it is pretty obvious that everyone originating from ANY country in Central or South America was considered a Hispanic. However, the new definition makes this entirely irrelevant as the definition is simply lumping the terms Hispanics and Latino together (as does the Common Application.)</p>
<p>In the end, none of this discussion about semantics matters. Students have the right --but not the obligation-- to self-identify their ethnic or racial attributes. It is up to the SCHOOLS to determine if such criteria deserves a adjustment in the form of an URM boost, especially at schools that use a holistic approach. Accordingly, one would hope that schools would correctly ascertain the differences between the son of the Brazilian Ambassador to the Unites States who might be black and the son of a white peasant laboring in a sugarcane plantation in a poor state of Brazil.</p>
fabrizio.... i take it u are hispanic...but no, i didn't flip it, u did.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, I am not Hispanic. I am Asian.</p>
<p>When I first registered at CC, I was blissfully ignorant of the word games some people like to play (e.g. "over-represented" vs. "under-represented"). I was also unaware that my surname could trigger an automatic mental image of a "textureless math grind" in the minds of some biased persons. I picked fabrizio because it sounded, and still sounds, cool.</p>
<p>
[quote]
According to results of the NRCCUA-HHF College Preparation 2007 study, nearly 98 percent of Latino high school students say they want to attend college and nearly 95 percent say they realistically believe that they will graduate from college.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What I don't particularly like about this survey is that the question it is asking is almost rhetorical in nature. After all, there is a big difference between somebody 'wanting' to go to college, or believing that they will graduating from college, and actually doing so.</p>
<p>An interesting movie dealing with Hispanic parents having trouble letting go is Real Women Have Curves. America Ferrera is in it! The first time I fell in love with her.</p>
<p>I teach literature and composition at a well-regarded community college. I have had students from many ethnic groups and many immigrant and first generation students as well. I can state uncategorically that I have had many, many Latino and Latina students. Some of them have been astoundingly brilliant. I have also taught Indian Lit. at SUNY Stony Brook and have taught classes of South Asian students.</p>
<p>I am saddened by the reported discrepancy of rates of college attendance. I would not conclude that the difference is the language barrier but rather cultural differences. I don't think education has been consistently viewed as central to success as it is in Asian culture. However, Latino/a students can certainly succeed. When we were reading poetry one student brought in many poems of Neruda, by far the most sophisticated poet introduced by a student.</p>
<p>Another factor to remember is the Anglo prejudice against Spanish culture and language. We see history from an Anglo perspective. How many children are taught that St. Augustine and Santa Fe were established before Jamestown? or that Dutch-speaking Albany was established before Boston. History is written by winners. Think about the histories of Calif. and Texas. Anglo culture has been antagonistic to Hispanic culture and breaking in is not always easy. See movies REAL WOMEN HAVE CURVES, STAND AND DELIVER, and FREEDOM WRITERS for cultural insight.</p>
<p>Do colleges give white Hispanics a URM advantage?
I have a friend who's Mexican by birth/upbringing, Spanish by blood. We both agree that he should not be given any advantage even though his family speaks Spanish at home. They're highly educated and upper-middle class.</p>
How many children are taught that St. Augustine and Santa Fe were established before Jamestown...or that Dutch-speaking Albany was established before Boston?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I was taught that St. Augustine was established before Jamestown in my European history class. (Officially, the class was world history, but since we never once talked about Africa or Asia beyond the Middle East - insults to countries in those regions uttered by classmates do not count - it was de facto European history.)</p>
<p>I assure you that my teacher is not a fan of cultural revision.</p>
<p>In addition, in my American history class, I was taught that before it was New York, it was New Amsterdam.</p>