<p>You will need to pay the higher tuition which are those of either UR or JHU. Your tuition asssitance will be determined from those institutions. You should double check, but I believe you will not be able to retain any merit awards from the conservatories. UR does offer merit awards; JHU typically does not. UR has a Take 5 program which allows a 5th year of study at no charge under certain circumstances. I was not able to determine if a DD student would qualify, but you may want to pursue that and see if you can get a written decision. Certainly you should followup after you are accepted. You also might want to check the stats on double degree completion rates and see if you can interview or converse by email with dd students. You will find that both programs are very demanding. You also need to seriously assess your music and academic skills. You need to be solid on both before attempting the DD option. Once accepted you should also talk with the studio head to assess their level of support for DD majors. I believe if you are accepted by both Eastman and UR, you can opt for a DD. That is not the case at Peabody/JHU. You will need to be accepted by both and also be evaluated and accepted separately for the DD option.</p>
<p>Oberlin does have high fees for extra credits that kick in above 17 credit hours per semester for double degree students. Fortunately, not many students wind up paying them. One favorite dodge is to take ensemble classes for 0 credit instead of the normal 1. The ensemble requirement is still met, both for scholarship and for degree purposes, but it gives you an extra credit hour to apply elsewhere that semester. ExCo classes can be taken for 0 or 1 credits, depending on whether you are just taking one for fun or want to apply a credit here and there toward the college degree. If you are at 15 or 16 hours, this lets you maximize the number of useful credits for the current semester without taking a 3 or 4 hour course and getting hit with the tuition surcharge. Principal applied lessons, normally 4 credit hours, can be taken for anywhere from 3 to 6 in a given semester. You still need 32 of them them to graduate, but you can drop down to 3 in a busy semester and then make it up some other time when you have a little more breathing room in the schedule. There are very likely to be similar methods at other schools that impose tuition surcharges, so ask about that as well.</p>
<p>BassDad's input reminds me to stress one of the most important considerations. Review the graduation requirements for each degree. Evaluate the total credit hour and time commitment. Consider any additional courses that you want to take. Remember also that the actual commitment is likely to require more than the theoretical minimum. Course schedule conflicts can add to the demands. Some combinations at the right schools can be very doable; others, all but impossible - even in 5 years. Be especially wary of science and music requirements. Science labs can take a lot of time/credit and so can music performance.</p>
<p>It is possible to get a an excess credit fee waiver at some schools. Scheduling conflicts, particularly with DD/DM schedules can be hairy. The more integrated the programs are within the institution, the less this happens but even required courses with a major are sometimes scheduled in conflict with an ensemble or IPO requirement.</p>
<p>The trick is to follow the course plan(s) as closely as possible, and to stay on track. Maintaining a schedule based on the outline seemed to make it easier.</p>
<p>Policies are school specific, but a waiver can and will be granted, particularly for upperclassmen scrambling to squeeze in the last remaining requirements. Doesn't hurt to ask.</p>
<p>The cost of tuition for me is a seriously major consideration: I am applying as an international student so any aid I get will be merit-based, not need-based. Unfortunately, I think maybe Eastman/Peabody is more likely to give merit aid than need aid, so that may be an issue for me.</p>
<p>I've looked through the graduation requirements carefully: I'm hoping to complete both degrees within 5 years: I definitely won't be doing science labs, and will probably need to do a lot of creative scheduling! (as well as have really good time management) I've managed to do a lot of creative juggling with my schedule in the last 4 years: I'm hoping I will manage to do the same in the next 5 without burning out or going mad.</p>
<p>Problem is I would really like to do this. Life would be so much easier if I were to succumb to temptation and do a BA in Music or pure Music degree: who knows after auditioning and talking to the profs and students I still might succumb!</p>
<p>Oberlin is generous with AP credits, if you have 4 or 5 on the exams; they can fulfill breadth requirements, not just count as units; if you come in with a lot of AP's, you may well be able to finish in 4 years, if that is your aim; or take more of the classes that interest you and finish in 5. If you have a scholarship from the conservatory, it extends for the 5th year so that you can complete the double degree -- the double degree program there is something they value and is a draw for some students. It is a doable program for the serious musician who also has strong academic interests, not the struggle it would be in the two-school programs, with a full academic load. (Harvard does let students take 5 years to complete the BA in order to accommodate music studies, for example, but at the additional cost of a 5th year of tuition; I don't know how they handle financial aid in those instances).</p>
<p>beatentrail - UR has a program called Take 5 which allows students to stay and take a 5th year of classes for free. However, it does NOT allow for students to complete a second degree. You will have to pay for the fifth year. If you don't mind my asking, what majors are you looking at in both programs?</p>
<p>It is a bit late for beatentrail to apply there (Conservatory applications were due on 12/1/2007 and College RD applications on 1/15/2008), but Oberlin also offers both merit-based and need-based aid to international students for anyone interested in applying for 2009 admission and beyond. </p>
<p>One of the reasons that they do what they can to make life possible for double degree students is that the current dean of the Conservatory is himself a graduate of the Oberlin double degree program.</p>
<p>I'm afraid although I like the school Oberlin: I haven't heard much good about the studios for my instrument at that school from a variety of sources. My teacher concurs with several other very highly placed professors/music professionals that not much has been coming out of Oberlin (for my instrument) recently. I've met students reading my instrument at Oberlin and even some doing double degrees, and while they seem to be enjoying themselves their playing didn't strike me as extremely fantastic. I thus passed.</p>
<p>I'm thinking of doing a second major in either economics or political science: I have extensive background doing biology research but think that to continue with that in college will be too taxing. One of my former research professors I was attached to suggested pursuing research in the social sciences: these, she says, are equally stimulating but not as time-taxing.</p>
<p>You should be careful (and sensitive) about dismissive remarks about an entire department (organ was is? you mentioned that in your post about an audiition at a different school)...I don't have any personal contacts in the department, but I do know that they have an impressive array of instruments, several faculty members with strong resumes, and a lively crew of students. The Organ Pump events seem like a lot of fun.</p>
<p>Your call, beatentrail. If there is nobody there with whom you want to study, then it is not the right place for you. In any event, the deadlines have passed for 2008. I thought others may be interested and wanted to make it clear that at least some schools offer need-based aid to international students. Good luck finding what you want.</p>
<p>Thanks to all for comments! Don't mean to slam the entire dept of any particular instrument: it's just my opinion of the issue... I think the professors you study with are very important. I have heard of at least 5 persons who transferred school because they couldn't get along with their prof/ felt they were not making progress.</p>
<p>I have 2 friends studying other instruments at Oberlin and they love it: school and studio for both of them are beyond their wildest dreams (if I remember correctly that is the exact words that 1 of them used!)</p>
<p>columbia jyard is way too annoying... getting 60 blocks both ways is stressful and takes too much time... inevitably you'll always have a lesson/coaching you need to warm up for and you won't have any time.</p>
<p>My son attended Eastman and states that organists are in high demand at the churches in the Rochester area. He said that they were all able to make pretty good money playing for churches, so that is probably a good way to get supplemental income. However, it will be difficult to work and do a double degree. Just a thought, though.</p>
<p>Re: DD merit $</p>
<p>Oberlin will 'split' a merit scholarship award between the Con and the College, so you end up with the same amount, but not double merit</p>
<p>JHU/Peabody does not award any conservatory merit $ if you choose DD, because Homewood is your 'home' school, but, TIP: they actually have 'in pencil' on your file how much Conservatory merit you would get if you only enroll in Peabody, but they won't tell you unless you call to ask! Exception to this is the Recording Arts & Science DD which has Peabody as the 'home' school.</p>
<p>UMichigan awards merit $ from both Music and LSA (and Engineering, I believe)</p>
<p>Columbia does not award any merit, and you are not eligible for Juilliard merit if you are applying for the Columbia/Juilliard program.</p>
<p>You can do a DD at Indiana or at Wisconsin as well. Both are easier to get into academically than some others mentioned with creditable music schools which are fully integrated in the campus. Michigan too, but the music school is in a different location w/shuttle bus which could be a downer on a very cold day.</p>
<p>Piggybacking on that, Indiana/Jacbos has the B.S.O.F (bachelor of science with and outside field). From my understanding, it's a music degree with the same music requirements, but all of your electives are concentrated into another major (most likely outside of the music school). It's supposedly only a tad more demanding than the BM, though I suppose it varies by instrument.</p>
<p>"Michigan too, but the music school is in a different location w/shuttle bus which could be a downer on a very cold day"</p>
<p>Music, Arts and Design, Engineering, and Architecture are all on the north campus. It is not as isolated as people think. Besides, like D said, all music parties take place around north campus. Campus bus services are very good. D never complaint. IU and Wisconsin may be easier to get in DD program academically. But Michigan is very supportive of DD programs, not just on paper but a fact. The bus runs frequently. Since several colleges/schools are housed on north campus, class scheduling between two campuses is well coordinated. Central campus classes start on the hour, while north campus on the half-hour. There is no problems getting to class on time. This semester, D has ensemble rehearsal immediately followed by language class on central then right back to north campus for private lesson or studio class. If taking campus bus were such a hassle, D wouldn't have taken the language class. She already passed the language placement exam and had enough AP credits to fulfill non-music requirement except 2 semester's required English classes. </p>
<p>Also, IU campus is big. I remembered when I was a graduate student there, sometimes I had to run to get to my next class on time.</p>
<p>D's friend auditioned at IU for the BSOF. At the end of audition, one of the professors asked a question regarding that program. D's friend realized that either the professor didn't know that the program exists or he didn't like the sound of it. D auditioned two programs. In one of the auditions, a professor also asked D a question regarding her other audition. As soon as D told me what he asked, I instantly told D that she wouldn't get accepted to that one. And I was right, she only got into the other one.</p>
<p>Even though D applied only to Music at Michigan, she receives scholarships from School of Music and the University.</p>
<p>Oberlin seems more generous with merit money in the Conservatory than the college; also since it comes from the same "pot," it may be that if you get a good merit scholarship from the Conservatory (for example on Early Review), that is all you will get, even with top academic credentials; so if you later want to drop the performance part of the double degree, you would lose your merit scholarship.</p>