<p>Hi we are considering about registering enrollment program for my child next year,when she is turning junior. I am thinking about registering in the summer program, so there is no problem of schedule. The program my child is interested in English Composition. However I am concerned about the GPA, which could be negatively affected. Is there anyone has the experience of dual enrollment program? Thank you</p>
<p>Our experience was positive. BUT, we had to be careful to point out to potential colleges that some grades were at college level. Few schools were attentive enough to notice on their own.
For example, a B in English Comp just looks like a high school B; no big deal, unless pointed out. Then, it was more clearly seen as a college level B while student was a soph in H.S. Impressive. A 10th grader getting a B at college course was valued higher(in our experience) than an A at actual h.s. - but I repeat, the key is getting the school to notice.</p>
<p>Plus of course, any courses that transfer are less a student has to pay for in college.</p>
<p>Note that grades earned in college courses taken while in high school do count toward GPA calculated for medical and law school admission. A student considering such post-bachelor’s destinations may want to consider that.</p>
<p>My son is a sr and did dual enrollment in both College Now and PSEO (we are in MN). </p>
<p>He has mostly As but has recieved some Bs in the tougher classes. I would say that if he had avoided these classes he probably would have had better GPA. His school doesn’t weight their GPA either, so he is also taking a bit of a hit to his class rank. </p>
<p>That said everything I have heard is that colleges value the rigor over the GPA. He will also be able to transfer 40+ credits toward his degree. </p>
<p>Are you planning to apply to the most selective schools ? They can be stinkers about transfers.</p>
<p>Thank you everyone, we are planning to apply to the most selective schools. In our area, only junior can register dual enrollment program and earn college credit, what is great is that the program is free. I am not sure if the course can be evaluated as pass/fail, or there will be exact grade. However I will think more about it and decide.
thank you mitchklong, what do you mean by “they can be stinkers about transfer”? will they be impressed?</p>
<p>Regarding transfer credit, some of the more selective private universities have rather restrictive transfer credit rules, like not accepting transfer credit for college courses taken while in high school. Public universities are typically more generous with transfer credit. Given the economics involved (private universities have an economic motivation to avoid students graduating early, while public universities with subsidized in-state tuition want students to graduate as early as possible), that is not too surprising.</p>
<p>But note that subject credit and placement into advanced courses based on college courses taken while in high school can be different from credit units that may be given. E.g. a student might get no credit units, but subject credit for the course, or the student may get credit units that can only be applied to free electives due to the course being not equivalent to anything. For public universities and same-state community colleges, there is usually an articulation agreement listing course equivalencies, but other types of transfer credit tends to need individual evaluation. Keep course catalog descriptions, syllabuses, reading lists, assignments, and tests for the course in case such individual evaluation needs to be done when the student enters a university after high school graduation.</p>
<p>She should talk to her current English teacher on whether she is a good enough writer to make a A in a college E.Composition class.
Any grade less is a ding on her transcripts for tippy top college applications.
Taking a cc class is assuming you are ready to tackle college level writing courses.
Taking AP English will give her a gpa bump and she can take the AP test spring of her junior year to fortify her transcript for elite colleges.
You may have to pay for textbooks for the class, so check.</p>
<p>This is the topic that has turned us off of the ivies. They tell applicants that to be competitive they must have college level experience, but then they establish policies expressly prohibiting any credit transfer from dual enrollment. Its black letter…they wont take them. </p>
<p>For example, if you take a calculus class at 4 year college over the summer most schools will accept the transfer. Take that exact same class at the exact same college via dual enrollment and they wont. I don’t see how anyone can defend that as fair. </p>
<p>Columbia, stanford, berkely and carnegie mellon are examples of good schools that still allow dual enrolment transfers.</p>
<p>Roma5,
You need to talk to your HS counselor about dual enrollment at your school. From what I hear, they are not the same everywhere.</p>
<p>At my D’s HS, they’d take dual courses at a local CC. They are easier than AP classes and they don’t count toward HS’s GPA. I also understand, dependent on the particular classes, some can get you colllege credits, some may not. It also depends on the colleges you are going to, you have to look at each school’s policy.</p>
<p>What you need to be careful with is that the quality of dual enrollment courses varies widely. In our area dual enrollment is offered through a CC. The courses are nowhere near as rigorous as the equivalent AP course ( i.e. Dual enrollment US history and English are a lot easier than AP US history and English). One of my kids took a dual enrollment course that was not even close to the equivalent of the intro course in college. He said what took the whole semester in the DE course took 3 weeks in college. The kids in our area who are aiming for top colleges do not do dual enrollment when an equivalent AP class is available. Don’t assume because a class has a college label that it is the most rigorous class available. Do your research by talking to other parents, students, and faculty and then decide.</p>
<p>Both my kids have used DE, and the experience has been lukewarm. First, my state doesn’t allow a high school to offer both DE and AP for the same course, so there’s no way for the student to take the one that looks better in the admissions process. To quote their preschool teachers, “You get what you get, and you don’t throw a fit.” </p>
<p>DE was nice when it earned credit that was useful, but most of the credit wasn’t useful. It either didn’t transfer as anything but an elective or transferred as a course that didn’t fulfill a particular requirement. Who the heck wants to use up all their electives before setting foot on campus? Hmm … do I want my electives to be calculus (which did transfer, but my major required another math class) or something that I’m only going to find at my LAC? </p>
<p>I understand the economic necessity, sometimes, of finishing college early, and DE can help with that IF a student is able to take advantage of articulation agreements and fulfill general ed requirements. BUT, I don’t think I agree with the philosophy of pushing kids so far ahead. You’re talking about a 16 year old, right? Why does she need to start college classes now, especially in the summer? Why not get a job, earn a little spending money, find out about the world outside the schoolhouse walls?</p>
<p>If you do go with DE its helpful to check out the equivalencies up front. We use uselect (<a href=“www.transfer.org”>www.transfer.org) but im sure their are other tools like it if that doesnt work for your state. </p>
<p>This process works best if you know what schools you are interested in and the kind of degree your will be pursuing.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>One possibility in this case is to take the college course, but hedge one’s bets by also taking the corresponding AP test, in case the school one eventually attends is more generous with AP scores than college courses taken while in high school.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not sure what you are saying here. If a student comes in with a pile of college or AP credit from high school which happens to fulfill some subject requirements, the student can take additional free electives instead of the otherwise-required courses (e.g. the student who skips calculus due to having subject credit for it already can take some other interesting course in place of calculus). In this case, the student can take additional courses that are unique to the school attended. However, it is true that credit units without any useful subject credit or advanced placement are not very useful unless the student intends to graduate early or take light course loads.</p>
<p>ordinarylives… not all kids pursue DE to get ahead. For some, community college is a better fit. My daughter is in a DE program with 38 other high schoolers. They went through an extensive admissions process. They take 2 high school classes together on the college campus and then everything else at the community college. Most of these kids (my daughter included) are pursuing private colleges that either don’t award transfer credit period or limit them. Those that choose to attend a public university are well counselled on which classes to take.</p>
<p>For my daughter (16), DE has been fantastic. She loves school. She loves the pace. She loves the course options. She loves having more control over what she needs to do to succeed in a class as opposed to having it dictated to her. It also saves her 10 hours a week and allows her to schedule around a internships and activities. More than likely, she’ll still be spending 4 years at the university but the loss of college class units doesn’t bother her at all. They are classes she enjoyed and learned in more so than the high school experience she was having prior.</p>
<p>DE isn’t always about getting through school faster. Some just enjoy the experience of learning better in a DE class.</p>
<p>My guys have all done DE. Beware that the level is not necessarily the same as that offered by top colleges - hence - why many are hesitant to offer credit, esp if in the major.</p>
<p>For example… DE Bio here at the cc or in the high school is equivalent to many lower level private or state schools, but it’s nowhere near equivalent to middle son’s Top 30 college. (Not only have I had my own kids to compare, I’ve used some of middle son’s old tests (when available) to check out similar classes from friends.) If you were to insist on getting credit, your student could be at a big disadvantage in any following class due to not even coming close to knowing the info. It makes sense that a college wouldn’t want to offer credit for the two not-remotely-similar classes. The cc class was termed “Bio-lite” by my guys.</p>
<p>Oldest got credit for his DE English class, but informed me the similar class at his 4 year U (not top anything) would have been more rigorous. Since he’s not an English guy, he was happy. Middle, again, did not get the transfer credit and told me his college class was far more rigorous.</p>
<p>It all depends upon the colleges and classes. It’s not just cut and dry with Bio 101 = Bio 101 everywhere.</p>
<p>ps I’ve no regrets having my kids to DE whether their credits transferred or not. AP is only a self-study option - then find a school that will give the test.</p>
<p>My D’s DE credits are allowing her to double major in college without having to take courses during the summer…</p>
<p>
During my junior and senior year of HS, I took quite a few courses at SUNYA and RPI. I was a half-time student at SUNYA during my senior year. It was a great experience for me. It allowed me to pursue math and science at higher levels than offered in my HS and allowed me to take a wide range of classes I found interesting, which were not offered in my HS. For example, I particularly liked a class I took in Biopsychology & Behavioral Neuroscience. Finding the courses more interesting and more challenging led to improved grades. At the time I applied to colleges, I had a 4.0 in these off-campus college classes, even though I only had a 3.4/3.5 in my easier HS classes. As I recall, all credits were transferable to Stanford, so I came in with about a years worth of credits, effectively starting out as a sophomore. This allowed me to graduate a little more than a year early (BS+MS+start of 2nd MS in 4 years) and start out in advanced courses. It retrospect, skipping ahead and starting out midway through the course sequences may not have been a good idea since the other universities’ courses where not equivalent to Stanford’s. Both SUNYA and RPI courses usually covered a bit different material and were usually taught at an easier level.</p>
<p>In summary, it depends on the student. It could be a great experience or an awful one. I’d only recommend it if the student is interested in the DE classes, is qualified and capable of doing very well, and does not have equivalent classes in their HS.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No, not always. In d’s case, she came in with calculus, which did fulfill the math requirement, but the major she switched to required stat, which also fulfilled the math requirement. D had to take stat. So, walking in the calculus did not free up any time for an elective as she still had to take a math class. </p>
<p>D went to school with enough credits for sophomore standing. Nine of her twenty-nine credits were “useful” because her major had specific requirements for the major that were also supposed to be used for gen ed distributions. In order to lighten her loads the worst semesters and complete a minor, she has still had to take summer classes. </p>
<p>I’m not saying DE classes were bad classes. They weren’t. And if a high school kids wants to take them, let them as parents are able (cost, transportation), just don’t go into DE (or even AP in some cases) buying the hype that they can make college “easier” or get students through faster (exceptions for students heading to schools with an articulation agreements in place)</p>
<p>Note that some Ivies come right out and say they won’t give credit for community college classes taken while in high school.
I still think it’s helpful for high school students to take college classes, even if they don’t all transfer to the place where they’re going to get the bachelor’s degree.</p>
<p>I’m a senior taking dual-enrollment classes full time at a local university. I live in Ohio, so we have PSEO and the tuition is free (even at private colleges). I could have gotten housing, but I would have had to pay for it. I haven’t been to my high school since July.
I’m taking four classes this semester and five classes next semester. My classes are worth only 0.8 high school credits each because you don’t spend as many hours in a college class as you do in a high school class. I wasn’t really worried about graduation requirements because I had already met them all by the end of my junior year, but I would have had to take two classes in a given subject in order to meet a credit requirement. This also means the courses affect my GPA less.
Most of my classes won’t transfer to colleges, but I don’t care very much because they’re free anyway. A lot of colleges have weird rules about this…like they won’t let you transfer a class that shows up on your high school transcript, or they won’t transfer classes that were used to meet high school graduation requirements, or they’ll only transfer university classes. Basically, you should always be open to the possibility that they won’t transfer.</p>