<p>@rk33, it mainly depends on what your family income is. The average cost after aid in 2007 is actually $20,604, not $5000. I don’t think it would drop that low in just two years, especially with the economy right now and the lost of endowment money
[Best</a> Value Colleges 2007 - AOL Money & Finance](<a href=“http://money.aol.com/loans/college/best-value-colleges]Best”>http://money.aol.com/loans/college/best-value-colleges)
Go to Duke</p>
<p>@ frenchhorngirl: Stanford’s admission process is more difficult than Duke’s… this year, Duke’s admit rate was about 17 percent, whereas 9-10 percent of applicants got into Stanford. I would also say that Stanford’s admissions process is less predictable than Duke’s… Stanford’s process pretty much hinges on whether or not they like your essays. Not to brag, but I had an excellent GPA, decent test scores, excellent extracurriculars, and decent essays, and I was denied at Stanford. However, I was admitted at Duke. It’s very hard to get into Duke, but it is much harder to get into Stanford. This applicant is definitely competitive for Stanford as well, but that does not mean he will get in.</p>
<p>@frenchhorngirl: I would argue that Duke and Rice are on the same level as Stanford/MIT/Ivies, if not better.</p>
<p>Ranking these schools in this way is far too subjective. You’re either going to have people who love Duke and become incredibly defensive when the topic is broached, or you will have people who love another school and believe that they’re preferred school is a lot better.</p>
<p>Though in my opinion, I think Duke has one of the best biology programs in the world which is what initially attracted me (plus the atmosphere, plus the basketball, plus the architecture, plus the weather, plus the people…ok, I better stop there now)</p>
<p>Yes airegin, I totally agree with you, Duke has one of the best biology out there, it pretty much pounds down upon JHU’s even if JHU is ranked higher. Ranking is pretty subjective, I never use ranking individually, I usually use ranking as a way to tell others about the tier of the school, admit rate and the “value” of its education.</p>
<p>well according rankings for biology programs for UsNews, it goes.
- stanford
- harvard
- johns hopkins</p>
<p>Ranking means little if you didn’t know. Ranking is often just more of a way to give school a better “look”. Also USNews is known for putting big name schools first.
If you want to go by ranking the The Philosophical Gourmet Report of PhD. in Biology ([The</a> Philosophical Gourmet Report 2009 :: Breakdown :: PHILOSOPHY OF BIOLOGY](<a href=“http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/breakdown/breakdown15.asp]The”>http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/breakdown/breakdown15.asp)) says:</p>
<p>1-Duke University
2-University of Wisconsin, Madison
3-Australian National University
4-Columbia University
5-University of Minnesota, Minneapolis-St. Paul
6-University of Pittsburgh
7-University of Sydney
8-University of Toronto </p>
<p>But that really says nothing. Its just why Duke is ranked 2nd best engineering school in Princeton Review but 30th by USNews. Isn’t that quite ironic. So to tell you the truth RANKING DOESN’T MATTER. I can tell you one thing. Half of the people that use CC probably didn’t even bother using ranking or barely used ranking in their College choice.</p>
<p>Oh I would also like you to know that even Stanford criticized USNews in 1996 as part of the FUNC or “Forget U.S. News Coalition”. Stanford’s president (Casper) even said “As the president of a university that is among the top-ranked universities, I hope I have the standing to persuade you that much about these rankings…particularly their specious formulas and spurious precision…is utterly misleading.”
[Criticism</a> of College Rankings - September 23, 1996](<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/dept/pres-provost/president/speeches/961206gcfallow.html]Criticism”>Criticism of College Rankings - September 23, 1996)</p>
<p>And the Annapolis Group (consisting over 100 liberal arts college) criticize USNews in 2007.</p>
<p>i don’t see how you can say that Duke’s biology program “pounds down on JHU’s” without any thing to back you up. unless you’ve gone to both Duke and JHU and have experienced both of their biology programs, i don’t think anyone can really say anything…</p>
<p>oh and i don’t really see how Stanford criticizing USNEWS rankings has any importance. i’m sure they wouldn’t be complaining with they were ranked first.</p>
<p>Given that they “As the president of a university that is among the top-ranked universities” I highly doubt that it doesn’t show an importance. They even said they were top-ranked. If that doesn’t say anything, then I don’t know what will because they sure weren’t complaining about not being ranked ahead of most colleges. Stanford’s president even said “Could you not do away with rank ordering and overall scores, thus admitting that the method is not nearly that precise and that the difference between #1 and #2 - indeed, between #1 and #10 - may be statistically insignificant”. This pretty much says that being ranked #1 and #10 has little difference and that there is pretty much no way in determining the ranking between #1 and #2 or #9. It just shows that ranking to them has little value and they don’t care much about what the numbers show. </p>
<p>Also I can ask you how you know Stanford is better than Duke? Do you have anything to back you up other than useless rankings. I mean I personally have spoken to people who have transferred from JHU to Duke because JHU’s biology is simply to them “no fun” (in other word they did not enjoy their time at JHU because it caused them to dislike biology). They even said that Duke is a better place because of the friendly academic, and fun atmosphere. This also goes for JHU BME students, who I know transferred to Duke because JHU BME was just not what they expected, they dislike the fact that all they did not like the competitiveness and having no college life. They like Duke because they could not only learn from a prestigious research college but also enjoy their time. That came from JHU transferred to Duke (of course there are students at JHU who will enjoy it there).</p>
<p>Duke and Stanford both have great academics, great people, great weather, and great athletics, so its hard to compare those areas. but it all comes down to two things – prestige and networking, and Stanford is definitely more prestigious than Duke. I’m not saying prestige matters that much, but when it comes down to comparing schools to eachother, Stanford wins. another important thing to consider is networking. because Stanford is more prestigious and harder to get into than Duke, the people are Stanford are truly amazing people (Duke people are amazing too, but Stanford’s people are AMAZING). there was a story about a reporter who spent the night at a many college dorms, and found that the people at Stanford were just truly spectacular (he met olympic athletes, national science fair winner, etc…). Having the opportunity to make connections and network with these people is one of the qualities of Stanford. </p>
<p>When it comes to rankings, there’s a reason why Stanford is consistently ranked better than Duke – because it is truly better. But we don’t need rankings to tell us that. It’s not what the school has that makes it what it is, it’s the people who go to the school, and because of Stanford is much more selective and prestigious than Duke, only the best people go there.</p>
<p>idk why my comment repeated itself at the beginning and the end.</p>
<p>frenchhorngirl, yes, stanford may be more selective. is the difference between them significant? no. they two schools have way more in common than they have differences - one is situated on the east, the other on the west. although i admit that i personally would have chosen stanford over duke (duke was my number 2 school, yes. but whatever), that’s MY personal preference. i’ve seen east-coasters choose duke over stanford 'cause its closer to home. yes, that might not be the orthodox thing to do, but it happens. duke has its fare share of science fair winners (hey look, i’m one myself! …) and olympians. stop splitting hairs. </p>
<p>if someone like the OP likes duke and wishes to apply ED, why are you giving them superfluous information? you don’t see me going around on threads with no relevance (ie “i want to apply to penn ED” saying “apply to duke!”). stanford may be > duke for some people, but it’s not the categorical “stanford >>>>>>> duke” that you’re trying to make it seem to be.</p>
<p>Haha, hopefully this debate is coming to a close. Like so many people have reiterated, I’m simply just not that into Stanford. It’s a wonderful school, I admit, but I feel Duke would be such a greater fit. </p>
<p>Oh, and this is just something I want to add on, just to see if it will add onto my chance, but today I won my high school’s Science Award, given to only 2 students in the entire high school for their contributions to the science department.</p>
<p>It will definitely help, but it won’t guarantee admission. My school gives out two awards in the science department as well every year.</p>
<p>HAHAHA national science fair winners all go to Stanford and not Duke? I highly doubt that. I have even seen ISEF, ISTS, JHSH, SJWP qualifiers go to Rice University, Caltech, Northwestern, UC-Berkley, and almost everywhere. One of my friend turned down Caltech to go to Northwestern. Note he was a ISEF qualifier and did a project on targeted drug delivery using carbon nanotubes. You simply can’t say that Stanford is better than Duke.
Its more of a personal opinion and you can’t apply your opinion to everyone especially going around to other people who are obviously interested in Duke (Early Decision=#1 choice and commitment) and tell them to “forget” Duke and this doesn’t just apply to OP, you have post this on many other people’s post. You simply say 3-5 “go to Stanford”.</p>
<p>Thank you, cdz512! Although I bet Stanford is phenomenal as well, I feel it is overrated, along with Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and MIT. There are so many excellent institutions out there, like Duke (which I also feel is somewhat overrated, but not as much), WashU, Northwestern, Rice, Emory, Pomona, etc, and applicants need to stop having the mindset that HYPSM are better than all these other fine universities. The main reason that HYPSM has the prestige that they do is because they are the hardest universities to get into in the United States. Does that mean the professors are better? No. Does that mean the academics are better? No. Maybe the student bodies are slightly more talented/interesting, but at any of these top 25 universities, you will find a talented/interesting student body. In essence, all these universities are all equal; as long as you work hard at any of the universities, you will succeed in life. People, especially on CC, need to stop thinking that the world is going to end if they do not get into HYPSM. </p>
<p>Anyway, why would one want to go to such universities where the admissions process is full of politics and unfair? My counselor had an athlete who had a 3.2 GPA and had no where the credentials I had, and he got into Stanford. Stanford seems to have their priorities mixed up, putting athletes ahead of qualified students who have worked hard their entire four years of high school.</p>
<p>I realize that the admissions process to any university is biased and full of politics, but it is especially worse at HYPSM.</p>
<p>HYPSM are not overrated, they are consistently ranked the best for a reason, because they are. </p>
<p>“Maybe the student bodies are slightly more talented/interesting, but at any of these top 25 universities, you will find a talented/interesting student body.”
- yeah, so you’re saying HYPSM just has more talented and interesting student bodies other universities in the top 25, which is what i’ve been arguing. anyway, HYPSM is better than other universities in the top 25 because the student body is undoubtly better. </p>
<p>cdz512: i never said ALL national science fair winners go to Stanford and not Duke, I’m saying Stanford just has a student body with MORE talented/interesting people than Duke, simply because it takes more to get into Stanford than it does to get into Duke. there’s a reason why Stanford has much higher yield than Duke…because its just better.</p>
<p>i mean, i love both schools. i just feel its kind of obvious that stanford’s better…</p>