Duke??? Brown????? Less than a WEEK for this poor Iowan to decide!

<p>advantages of brown:</p>

<p>one of the top five schools in the country in terms of getting students into med school, but is one of the least stressful places to be pre-med
[Brown</a> Admission: Facts & Figures](<a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University)</p>

<p>brown has one of the best undergrad neuro programs. the intro neuro class is the most popular class at the whole school (there is even a neuro 1 t-shirt), and is taught by the professors who wrote the text book used by the rest of the world. the research opporunities are fantastic, i wrote my neuro thesis there with a nobel prize winner, others wrote theirs with the inventor of braingate
[BrainGate</a> - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrainGate]BrainGate”>BrainGate - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>the music program is awesome and has incredible resources, including its own section of campus and a beautiful music library
[Brown</a> University Department of Music](<a href=“Music | Brown University”>Music | Brown University)</p>

<p>VISIT! If there is any possible way for you to visit, do so. I recently visited a school (American) I thought I’d fall in love with, but within 5 minutes of being there, I was pretty sure it wasn’t for me.</p>

<p>BUT - If it is impossible to visit, choose Brown. It sounds like you will be more happy there.
But I would recomend considering the fact that Duke has a top ranked med school which will make admission quite easier.</p>

<p>

I’d dearly like to know if that includes PLME students. If so, that’s a lot less impressive.</p>

<p>Duke does as least as well as Brown for med school placement – if not better. Take the 2007-2008 year at Hopkins Med as an example. If you want to bring in size as an issue, Duke only has 500 more students than Brown.</p>

<p>MD
Brown: 9 students
Duke: 11 students</p>

<p>MS/PhD
Brown: 3 students
Duke: 11 students</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/students/academics/catalog/mcat07_08/MCAT11b.pdf[/url]”>http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/students/academics/catalog/mcat07_08/MCAT11b.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>choosing a single, convenient example is very weak evidence of how the average duke pre-med does. </p>

<p>where people go to school is a function of where they live. most brown students tend to go to med schools in the northeast and california. most duke students tend to go to med schools in the midatlantic and south.</p>

<p>the point is that the overall admission rate for brown students is almost double the national average. as indicated in the link, PLME students are obviously not included. </p>

<p>also, sending 3-4 brown students per year to harvard, and the same to yale, penn, columbia, ucsf is amazing considering the average size of a medical school class is only 150.</p>

<p>Go to Brown! You even mentioned you think you’d be happier there, and that matters above campus aesthetics or weather. Plus there is the whole open curriculum… that would probably make it easier to take pre-med classes on top of a separate major or take lots of electives (if that’s what you want).</p>

<p>

</a></p>

<p>I had never perused that site before, but upon further searching, I am pleased to note that Johns Hopkins Medicine does indeed practice incest with its undergrads :D</p>

<p>JHU has 62 students IN for undergraduates at MD
and 43 for MS/PHD.</p>

<p>If you include the first number (62) with the other Johns Hopkins affiliated schools like the Bloomberg School of Public Health, that total rises to 78 Hopkins Affiliated Students in the MD program :D</p>

<p>i love incest !!! haha ;)</p>

<p>These numbers make me proud and happy :D. Hopkins has a smaller undergrad pop than both Duke and BRown :D</p>

<p>The next closest for MD is Harvard with 40.</p>

<p>edit: nvm. The next closest is yale with 43
Stanford has 31
and Princeton has a paltry 8. lol</p>

<p>yes…it does seem like medical school admissions does play a role in my decision. </p>

<p>IBclass06 - it would be more interesting if there was a statistic comparing the number of medical school applicants and not just undergrad population.</p>

<p>dcircle - do you happen to know the exact (or approximate, hahha) percentage accepted? I would be interested to know what a “top 5” figure looks like</p>

<p>thanks all for the input…the internal turmoil is reaching a sort of a climax - so hopefully it’ll be calming down soon, heh ;)</p>

<p>Both will get you wherever you need to go. Choose where you’re going to take the most advantage of their unique cultures and environment and where you feel you’ll thrive.</p>

<p>Both schools have good neuro programs so you can’t go wrong. last summer, my son worked with top neurosurgeons at a highly rated hospital in NYC and coincidentally, both interns were from Brown. So although Brown is ranked a bit lower overall as a school, it didn’t seem to matter. Brown seems to be a bit misunderstood, though, by some people. Some will tell you it’s easy to get As or you don’t have to even get grades (just take all your classes pass/fail). But the people who state these things have never actually attended Brown. Do NOT attend Brown expecting classes to be easy. My son was a top student, top scores, top GPA, top 1-2%, 5s on almost all 9 APs and believe me, he works for his grades. Perhaps not as much as he should, but much harder than in HS. But I don’t expect him to study 24/7. Brown kids mix books with fun. But as a neuro major, you should expect to spend a lot of time in the SciLi(brary). As far as pass/fail, realize you will need letter grades when applying to med school. You may or may not want to take some exploratory classes pass/fail such as learning a new language or trying a new passion (art or theatre or rocket science). Pass/fail is a nice option to reach toward something that may be a bit out of your comfort zone but it intrigues you. As a pre-med you don’t want to risk a B or even a C, so at a traditional school, you’d probably decide to skip it, to prevent getting a blemish on your transcript. Brown offers flexibility, support and freedom to create your own curriculum (within the restraints of fulfilling neuro and pre-med requirements).</p>

<p>Since both schools have strong neuro programs, I suggest you base your decision on non academic factors, such as location (how difficult is travel, how expensive), weather (Duke is much easier to like), fun factor (Duke Greek/sports oriented, Brown barely Greek/sports barely attended, you certainly won’t find students sleeping out for tickets to any sports event), campus (Duke much larger and beautiful but split with freshman on one side and upperclassmen on the other, could be a good thing or not depending on your view, busses transport students from one side to the other: Brown smaller campus, more cityish with streets running through campus but still plenty green, has diversity in buildings), dorms (Don’t know about Duke, Brown: not fancy but all types/floorplans and different locations around campus (lottery system), my son had a semi-private bathroom freshman year and lived in a suite 2nd year but he lived in a tradional style dorm with large shared bathroom during a summer session, housing is guaranteed all four years I believe), college relationship with town/city (when touring Duke, we were told by students and admin of “problems” between townspeople and students, only worsened by the wrongly accused lacrosse rape incident; Brown has a strong volunteer commitment within the city, seems to have built a good relationship), ease of getting off campus without a car (Duke has little to nothing to walk to, Brown has Thayer Street (restaurants, stores), the Providence Mall, the bus/train station, basicallly a small city right there with free transportation, easy access to NYC and Boston, close to Cape Cod and RI beaches).</p>

<p>My son was in the same boat two years ago, deciding between Brown PLME, Duke and Yale. He chose Brown. But he felt all three were good choices or he wouldn’t have applied. He loves Brown but he recommends you choose the school that fits you the best. You can succeed at Duke or Brown, but like most things in life, you will do your best when you’re happy and less stressed, Remember, med school is the destination but take time to enjoy the journey.</p>

<p>If you are an Iowan as in blue state liberal, Iowa City hippie then BROWN. You won’t really like Duke. If you are in the 40% red state Iowa, then Duke.</p>

<p>

That said, it should be pointed out that ~50% of all grades given at Brown are A’s (even in the sciences :eek:). This is probably a plus for pre-meds.</p>

<p>Great post, jerzgrlmom! :)</p>

<p>IBclass06,</p>

<p>I agree this is a plus for pre-meds and maybe that’s why Brown successfully sends so many kids to med school. BUT I’m not sure about your statistic. You say 50% of grades given at Brown in the sciences are As. Could be. I really don’t know. It is possible to get As. My son has done it plenty but my point is that a student generally has to work hard for those As (although I’m sure there are some easier classes and/or easier professors just like at any school). </p>

<p>But I’m wondering if your statistic is misleading. Is that 50% of all grades that were attempted as of week 2 (typical add/drop period at many colleges) or 50% of grades officially recorded on transcripts at the conclusion of the semester? I ask because Brown lets kids drop classes much later in the semester than other schools so kids (pre-meds) getting Cs may drop those classes late into the semester. Also, kids who are actually failing a class may not get counted in that statistic because failures (NoCredit) aren’t recorded on transcripts, either. So, it may be that 50% of kids earning grades they WANT recorded on their transcripts receive As. That’s vastly different. And yes, Brown’s policy regarding late drops and failures does help pre-meds. Keep in mind that students only get these breaks for a limited number of classes. They can’t keep dropping classes. They should officially complete 8 per year to stay on track for graduation, which Brown expects one to do in 8 semesters total.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>And if you stray off pace you get it noted permanently on the transcript.</p>

<p>Apparently, about 40% of grades in sciences are As, but let me tell you, as a chemistry concentrator, that number seems way inflated. I’m not sure any of my classes, except for two really small ones with 4-6 people, hit 40% As.</p>

<p>That being said, we also view grading differently than most places-- it’s not about comparing you to other students as much as comparing you to an expectation of learning. I have had multiple professors say that if everyone does well enough to get an A, I’ll give everyone an A, if no one does well enough to get an A, you can forget it.</p>

<p>I had one professor who totally believed in what he called, “the top dog method.” He truly believed that his teaching was only as good as the student who did the best on each test. That student(s) would of course receive an A and everyone else would follow. Since his classes were all lectures and no text books, we were all on equal footing from the start.</p>

<p>

Overall
A 50.6%
B 21.7%</p>

<p>Life Sciences
A 53.4%
B 25.3%</p>

<p>Social Sciences
A 51.9%
B 26.8%</p>

<p>Humanities
A 51.3%
B 15.9%</p>

<p>Physical Sciences
A 47.1%
B 26.3%</p>

<p><a href=“Office of Institutional Research | Brown University”>Office of Institutional Research | Brown University;

<p>“My parents are primarily worried about Brown having too much of a “liberal arts college” image and are thinking about how it may look if don’t end up in med/grad school”</p>

<p>It’ll look like you went to an ultraselective Ivy League school!</p>

<p>As for Brown being full of pot-smoking gay hippies – well, yeah, there’s some truth to that, if the comparator is Duke. And Duke really is Southern, fratty, and athletic relative to Brown. Those leanings are as good a reason as any to choose between them. I agree with those above who’ve said it sounds like you’re more of a match for Brown.</p>

<p>gadad said, "First off all, Brown is one of the most selective and prestigious universities in the nation. "</p>

<p>Duke is also one of the most selective and prestigious universities in the nation.</p>

<p>Either would be a great choice. My S liked Duke much better. He thought Brown was much too liberal… ;)</p>

<p>Thanks for all of your inputs! : )</p>

<p>After deliberation, I think I will choose Brown as of now. BUT. A large problem still remains: as some of you may have been able to gather so far, my parents are of the Asian descent putting much stock into rankings, etc.</p>

<p>I feel selfish asking so much and all that but, besides the fact that I have a higher chance of being happier at Brown, are there “concrete” reasons I could use to sway my parents? Thanks so much for your help guys, you guys are amazing! : )</p>

<p>“Ivy League”. (???)</p>

<p>ah, yes. But there is also the USNWR rankings…which seems to be an issue D: <em>sigh</em> (hahha, I feel like such a self-pity-er…sorry!)</p>