When people compare Duke to Stern and Ross, what program at Duke are they exactly talking about? We all know that Duke does not have an undergrad b-program. Thank you.
MBA programs at Fuqua is the correct answer, but a surprising number of people erroneously believe Duke has an undergraduate Business major.
@toptier I don’t get it when some people say that duke’s undergrad is better than stern or ross…
Maybe they’re referring to a different undergrad program at duke
@Bluesplayer: Yes, or maybe the aggregate quality of Duke versus NYU and/or Michigan. Who knows? Frankly, I don’t recall seeing such remarks and I wouldn’t pay attention to them if I had.
I would venture to guess that people may be comparing Duke to Ross or Stern with regard to employment opportunities in business. Duke students still are recruited heavily by Wall Street firms and the like despite there not being an undergrad business school (as is the case at a school like Harvard). Economics is a popular Duke major for those interested is pursuing financial services/banking/consulting, but certainly other majors are also considered. As an undergraduate business program, obviously Duke cannot be compared to Ross because an undergrad b program doesn’t exist at Duke. Despite this, undergrad Dukies are represented VERY well in the upper echelon of the business world (with many later pursuing MBAs).
@bluedog: Absolutely right! The list of Duke undergraduate alumni who have excelled in the top commercial/financial enterprises is long and distinguished (typing this on an iPhone at breakfast, so please forgive the spelling and the incompleteness): Rubenstein, Mack, Wilson, Bostock, Pratt, Adams, Nicholas, Schwartz, Waggoner are just stellar examples. The point is, from a school like Duke, enterprises hire the PERSON (immediate and future performance and leadership); skills are important, but can be quickly mastered. Fuqua adds additional facets to Duke’s aggregate capabilities (witness, Tim Cook Apple’s CEO).
@bluedog @TopTier Ya know, Markets & Management Studies is the closest thing we have to an undergraduate business major without sacrificing an intellectual liberal arts curriculum. In laymen terms, we’d say “selling one’s soul.” lol
@bluedog and @Jwest22: Here’s an interesting fact regarding a formal Business curriculum at Duke. I believe – although I am not certain – that in the early-1970’s (and prior) Duke had an undergraduate Business curriculum/major (not sure of the nomenclature). However, during the Graduate School of Business Administration’s (now Fuqua) nascent years, the national/international MBA accreditation group demanded that Duke drop its undergraduate business curriculum. This was the group’s general policy for MBA accreditation, although older programs (for example, Wharton) were “grandfathered.” Tom Keller, who was the GSBA’s/Fuqua’s Dean, decided that the University should do so, Terry Sanford and the Trustees concurred. This was a key recommendation in an independent strategic study I developed for Tom, so I have some first-hand knowledge of what happened and why.
@TopTier I’ve always known this fact! In fact, I actually shared this with someone at a recruiting event at the WaDuke (although I didn’t know the specific details in which you described).
I do, however, wonder how we would stack up today against schools like Wharton if an undergrad business school did exist.
@Jwest22: If I understand the real intent of your question, and I believe I do, my OPINION is it would not make ANY meaningful difference to Duke or to our undergraduate “life.” Although this will NOT happen, it would simply be another major (perhaps a few), taught on the Fuqua campus, by Fuqua professors, and so forth.
HOWEVER, the students would still be Duke undergraduates, probably (?) still enrolled in Trinity (consider Sanford undergraduates as a paradigm), they’d be selected by Undergraduate Admissions, their living arrangements would remain entire unchanged, as would their social lives, and everything else. In sum, four Delts (Class of '30) live together on West, one majors in Mechanical Engineering (Pratt), one in Public Policy (Sanford), one in History (Trinity), and one in accounting (Fuqua). Not trying to be flippant and certainly with no disrespect intended: so what . . . “business as usual.”
Furthermore, it wouldn’t alter Duke governance (Pratt, Sanford, Nicholas, Nursing, etc. all have programs ranging from Bachelor’s to doctorates) and – more important – it would not change the fundamental liberal arts focus for Duke undergraduates, because everyone would still be required to fulfill substantial “arts and letters” “distribution requirements.” In addition, I suspect quite a few upperclass undergraduates would decide to take a few course at Fuqua . . . again, so what.
In terms of “stacking up,” after some years in operation, I suggest we’d be rather similar to Wharton: students, professors, recruiters, cases, courses, and so forth would all be near-identical and would all be drawn from the same demographics (very much like Penn and Duke are currently). Some may suggest that Philadelphia’s more urban nature would be a substantial difference, but increasingly the nation’s (and the world’s) economy are digitized. Could a Fuqua undergrad intern with Goldman from Few Quad (especially in 20+ years)? Why not?
Finally, Duke does not want this, Fuqua certainly does not, thus the foregoing is ONLY a hypothetical “what it” discussion. Wharton has been a major, distinct part of Penn for a LONG time; an enlarged Fuqua (that taught undergraduates) would evolve from an entirely different “university root,” one that would “bleed Duke Blue.”
I think it is a silly exercise to pretend that one cannot compare Duke to NYU-Stern and UMich-Ross. While Duke is a university that focuses on a liberal arts education rather than a pre-professional education, one can easily major in something like Economics (or really anything else, honestly) and get a job in the business world just by virtue of having a Duke degree. In fact, finance is the most common industry for Duke students to enter upon graduation and has been for quite some time. Pretending that it is impossible to compare Duke to Stern and Ross is pointless. While it is certainly possible to get a great job out of Stern or Ross, Duke certainly offers the better, more abundant opportunities in general. Hope this helps!
@StanManYeah (re post #10): “Duke is a university that focuses on a liberal arts education rather than a pre-professional education”
Liberal Arts undergraduate education IS pre-professional education; in fact, they are anything but mutually exclusive! Most individuals entering medical, business, and law schools – and the professions – received liberal arts Bachelor’s degrees (and many attended LACs).
@TopTier Majoring in business and majoring in economics are two different things. Of course a liberal arts education prepares you for a career by developing critical thinking skills, but it does not prepare you for a SPECIFIC career as a pre-professional education does. You are wrong to correct me. In fact, I said Duke sets its students up to be quite the professionals. We agree on that.
Duke has a very specific financial services track that serves as the functional equivalent of a business school. It is not a busines school curriculum but the courses and the extra curricular activities and opportunities provide identical opportunities post graduation as a top undergraduate business school. Whatever your reasons for going or not going to Duke, it should not be an inability to prepare for a financial services or Wall Street job.
@SatnManYeah (re post #12): Of course they are – and I NEVER suggested otherwise.
What I objected to (and what I tactfully tired to point out) was your questionable use of the term “pre-professional,” which generally (especially at a place like Duke) implies “pre-professional school” education (in preparation for law, business, medical, etc. PROFESSIONAL SCHOOLS). Furthermore, traditionally (although I expect this is becoming archaic) jobs such as iBanking – and essentially everything that did not require professional school – were not referred to as “professions.” Professions implied “professional school” education (which obviously differs from graduate school) and frequently state licensure (often after state administered examinations). Language matters; using a term like “pre-professional education” incorrectly reduces the precision of your message.