<p>Hi c/o 2012,
I thought it would be helpful to all the incoming freshmen to have a graduating senior address some of their concerns. I'm graduating with a B.S. in biology and a minor in chemistry, and will be heading to grad school in the fall. I certainly don't know everything about Duke but would be happy to share some of my insights. Of course, everyone is welcome to comment.</p>
<p>From your experiences and your peers, do you think it is advisable to get out of intro bio and take a more advanced course freshman year? Would about for chem? Is taking 5 courses, with many/a few of them in the sciences, a bad idea (if none of them happen to be orgo...)? I am one of the millions who initially want to go premed, and it seems like in general the intro courses tend to have the hardest curves. I am not extremely familiar with Duke's system at the moment, I heard they have a orgo class for freshmen with a slightly better curve, but since I took Chem junior year in hs, I am worried I will have forgotten a lot of it (for both orgo and the MCAT). Thanks a lot, I know you said you're not premed, but this would be a great help.</p>
<p>Oh, and how hard will it be to do a focus group, double major (bio and philosophy), and study abroad while at Duke? Do you recommend taking summer courses? Thank you so much for any insights and offering your time.</p>
<p>what is the academic competition like at Duke? I know sports are a big part of student life- mostly basketball- and social life is big</p>
<p>but what is the competition for grades like</p>
<p>goblue10nis:
I think it is fine to skip intro bio if you have AP. There seems to be a lot of overlap in the coursework and many people that I know had sufficient background jumping into higher level courses in biology. For chem, I would urge you to consult your advisor when you get to Duke. Some people are fine, especially those with that came from good AP courses, but others struggled, not so much in the first semester, but in the second semester. I came into Duke with 14 AP credits and opted out of many classes. In retrospect, chem was the only one I regret doing since I feel that I had insufficient background compared to better prepared students in my class.</p>
<p>I am actually premed too! I'm graduating a year early to do a masters and am starting the application process for med schools now (yikes!). Yes, all the premed classes here have pretty terrible curves, usually to C+/B-. In essence, half the class will be getting grades in the D to C range. First semester of orgo for freshmen are in a separate section curved to a B. However, second semester is pretty hard since you're thrown in with the mix of students and the C+/B- curve kicks in. I think that its advisable for those who come from weaker AP chem programs, regardless of score, to take accelerated gen chem (Chem23) so they can get use to the way Duke chemistry works, which is more abstract than the HS chem that many of us are used to.</p>
<p>It is very easy to do Focus (I was in Evolution and Humankind), especially after they've reduced the courseload associated with the program. Essentially, 2 of your 4 first semester core classes will be with the program, and Focus courses fulfill the gen ed requirements which you would otherwise need to take electives to fulfill anyways. I would highly recommend Focus since I thought that it was a great experience to immerse in discussion and debate that one would not encounter in large lecture classes, esp. for premeds. I didnt do study abroad b/c of time constraints (others comment?) but did spend a summer session at duke and a summer session at the duke marine lab. Summer courses are pretty intense, a full semester's worth of material in 6 weeks time. But since you're taking only 1 or 2 classes, it really allows you to focus on the material, and I've found that I've done better in my summer courses since I dont have as many commitments in addition to study.</p>
<p>Wneckid99:
There is competition for grades, but I feel most of it is due to the unfortunate way grading is done in some courses. I comment on biology and chemistry in particular. Regardless of raw score, the mean for intro and core classes in biology and chemistry is usually set to a C+/B-, with standard deviations demarcating the next jump up and jump down in grade. Essentially, this means that if everyone studies really hard and the class average is higher than the prof. would like, lets say 85%, then even if you have a legitimate B grade (83%) you will end up getting a C/C+. Since there are a lot of premeds at Duke, I would say that there is some resentment among us about the way grades are handed out, since it seems kind of unfair. However, when we apply to med school, most if not all recognize that Duke premed classes are graded on this distribution and adjust their expectations accordingly. The average GPA for a Duke matriculant to medical school is 3.5 overall, 3.3 science, which is way way below the national mean that hovers around 3.7, 3.6. Essentially, this is b/c most premeds here will apply to the same set of med schools, and few ppl will have GPAs near the national mean. Most competitive Dukies will have grades in the range of 3.5-3.6 so that is where they draw their acceptances from.</p>
<p>Thank you for the detailed responses, if I think of any more questions I will post them.</p>
<p>OK, already thought of one: does the accelerated gen chem have a slightly easier curve? I am assuming the kids in it will be smarter... Also, what makes it accelerated? (is it only a semester?)</p>
<p>I think it is set to B-/B but am not completely sure. most of the students will have had a 4 or 5 on the AP exam in the class. Yes, it's only 1 semester in length.</p>
<p>I know a lot of Focus clusters get to go on major trips. Where, if you went anywhere, did you get to go? Do you know where other clusters travel, like say, the Muslim Cultures one? And, how does travel work in the sense that when would you go during the school year? </p>
<p>Also, what did you do to graduate a year early, and why?</p>
<p>So most med schools will be OK with 1 semester accelerated class fulfilling a general chem requirement (meaning we won't have to take more chem besides that notorious year of orgo...)?</p>
<p>what were your stats coming out of high school?</p>
<p>how do you think duke has prepared you for premed?</p>
<p>what is your favorite "fun" thing to do on campus?</p>
<p>what did you think about durham- since there isnt much to do in the actual city</p>
<p>goblue10nis, I took Chem 23 (Accelerated Gen Chem) in fall of 2007 and it was HARD. Half the class will get a C or below (curved to a C+). I hear it used to be easy, but then the current prof took over the class and made it ridiculous. The annoying thing is that the entire class has gotten a 4 or 5 on the AP Chem, so your 5 is no better than someone else's 5 and you're fighting against kids who are exactly the same as you. Personally, I wish I'd taken Chems 21 and 22 or just skipped ahead to Orgo because with Orgo, you'd have gotten 1 semester for a decent grade and then 2nd semester you'd have been thrown into the C+ curve world, which happened in Chem 23 anyway. Of course, I'm only a freshman (sophomore now?!?!?!!), but just my point of view...</p>
<p>senator - wow that is a harsh curve, i just found out that when my roommate took it, it was set to a B so things have really changed...</p>
<p>nmehta - I did the Evolution and Humankind cluster and in our year, we kinda got jipped out of a good trip since we only went to the marine lab, which many people do anyways. Some of the other clusters had AWESOME trips, I spoke to an alum of the Russian focus and they went to Russia, the genome sciences cluster goes to the DC area to meet some higher ups in government and NIH, etc. The trip is over Fall break so you wont be missing any class.</p>
<p>Graduating early was unplanned. I overloaded every semester and did 2 summer sessions and realized that I was pretty much done by Junior year Fall. Ive become interested in clinical research and public health (thanks to summer research I got to work on) so I decided to apply to some 1 yr programs in this area to see if I could get in, which I did. So I'll be doing that for a year and am applying to med school now as scheduled for fall 09.</p>
<p>goblue - yes, even if u skip gen chem completely and go strait to orgo, med schools will be ok with it since the AP gen chem credit is listed on your duke transcript. A lot of bio majors tend to tack on a chem minor just b/c its so easy to do so. E.g. I skipped gen chem, took orgo 1 and 2, biochem, and a pharmacology class. Its also excellent prep for the MCAT/med school so a lot of ppl do take higher up chem courses.</p>
<p>wneckid- hmm its been awhile since high school, I had a 4.0 and a 1440 on the old sat, i forgot the exact #s for my SATIIs but they were all 750+ with an 800 on the IIC exam. I did take a lot of APs and college courses while in high school, I came into Duke with 14 credits worth. Despite the harsh premed grading, I think that Duke offers an incredible training experience. I cant compare to other schools since Ive only gone here, but I would say that those who do make it through the system fair very well in the application process and in med school itself. Duke science is a little different than what most ppl coming out of high school, even in some colleges, would expect. There is less strait memorization and general theory, and much more emphasis on specific examples, minutia, case studies, and experimental methods, and exposure to the primary literature of the field (i.e. you will be reading a lot of publications from scientific journals, rather than just from a secondary source like a textbook). This kind of prep is phenomenal for grad school, which is essentially the same kind of thing, but also great no matter what area you go into.</p>
<p>Favorite fun thing to do on campus = all the student or school sponsored events, e.g. the annual indian arts show (Awaaz), chinese arts show (LNY), parties at the Nasher, at the Gardens, etc. And of course BB season, which is incredibly spirited here at Duke. Durham isnt a college town like CH is, and I think that the Duke admin recognizes this and sponsors regular get-togethers and parties for the undergrads which is awesome. They didnt do this too much my freshman year but have since ramped up funding for these events.</p>
<p>Durham IMO, is a mix of good and bad. There are legitimate safety concerns and of course the whole deal with corrupt practices of city and police leaders, etc. However, especially for someone thinking about going into a career of service to others, e.g. law, medicine, government, which many Dukies are, it provides a community that does have socioeconomic problems that need to be addressed, and provides many opportunities for civic engagement that you might not find in more posh locales (like Stanford, or Princeton, etc.) I am by no means wealty (on financial aid, first generation student), but Ive had the opportunity to get involved with several service projects in the local communities which really gives me an appreciation for the kind of work that should and needs to be done more to help out others in our society. It is with this newfound understanding that I want to approach medicine.</p>
<p>just out of curiosity, do you know what med schools you are applying to?</p>
<p>i havent finalized a list of schools yet. its really competitive no matter what one's stats are, i think the average student applies to anywhere between 10-20 schools. I'm leaning towards 15-20 at this point, probably including all 6 in my home state (FL). Other than those, its really up for grabs. I'm thinking schools ranked between 10-40, but that will really depend on how i do on the mcat which I take in July - yikes! I would prefer school in a big city though, maybe the 5 NY city schools (Columbia, Cornell, MSSM, AECOM, NYU), Northwestern, Emory, Georgetown, etc.</p>
<p>My son is going to apply to Duke in the fall, that's why I am reading this forum. However, I went to UT-Austin as a premed in 1976-80 and our courses were the same. The premed courses (biol, chem., but especially organic) were all graded on a curve. The average grade was a C and the distribution flowed (up and down) from that point. First day in organic, the prof said (paraphrasing)- 125 in the class, almost all premed; 15 will make an A, 25 will make a B, the rest of you aren't going to medical school. Let's get started.- and he stuck to it. The only premed class where that didn't happen was biochemistry where the curve was easier. The prof told us he did that because the class tpically had the highest gpa at the university. (I don't know if that's really true. </p>
<p>The point is that most premed programs at good schools are based not on how well you know the material, but how well you know it better than everyone else. Both at Duke (elite, academic, private) and at UT (BigStateU).</p>
<p>As a science person, what'd you do for your ALPs?</p>
<p>i'm trying to estimate costs for attending duke, and i seen the cost of attendance according to duke's website, but i wanted to get some personal feedback on it,</p>
<p>how much did you set aside for personal expenses for the entire year? and can you break it down into books, transportation, misc, etc.?</p>
<p>aardvark - many undergrad schools seem to have undergone tremendous grade inflation in the 1990s-2000s. I have a lot of high school friends who go to school back in FL and their premed classes are curved extremely generously (60-70%ish = B, 70-80%ish = A). If you get a 60% in a Duke premed class, be prepared to get a grade in the D-C range. I think that Duke premed classes have not undergone the same kind of inflation that are found at some other places. I had the opportunity to talk to several higher ups, including the deans (e.g. Scheirer, et al.) here at Duke and an admissions director at UF, and the consensus has been that its safe to add on .2-.3 to your Duke GPA when looking at the schools matriculant averages. That has been verified from talking to some of my Duke friends who got into great programs with grades less than reported averages.</p>
<p>goblue- I did focus so one of my alps was a lit course on cultural evolution. the other class was Eng90AS - readings in genre, which i recommend. Its a great survey course of literature that is less writing intensive than most. It will also give you a W credit which is great. I had Surin for the lit course and Kennedy for the Eng90 course.</p>
<p>jessy09 - thats a really individual by individual kind of thing. Personally, I'm not a big spender and since I'm on FA, I was also able to get a work study job for my whole 3 years here which helped. If I were to ballpark an estimate, I would say that books will run you between 400-500 dollars depending on which courses you take per semester. The intro courses and core courses will cost more since there are most always required texts that can get pricey (e.g. Bio 118, 119, Chem 151, 152, Physics 53, 54, Math 103, etc.) I've found that as I moved into higher level classes, theres been less emphasis on textbook reading and more on reading primary literature, which is free since Duke spends a tremendous amount of money on access to e-journals. For eample, the last semester 2 semesters I bought maybe only $100 worth of textbooks in all. In terms of transportation, I fly into South FL for winter break and spring break, sometimes over thanksgiving break too. Each round trip is about $200-300 depending on how early I purchase a ticket. I dont have a car so that wasnt a cost. I think if you are flying into a much bigger city (e.g. NY, DC, Philly) the cost is cheaper since RDU is kinda a more regional airport despite being "international" I know ppl who got a flight home to philly for $45 at the right times. Freshman year, I think it would be safe to estimate about $2000-2500 for personal expenses on the conservative side (e.g. no car, etc.) That is b/c you will have a fixed meal plan which is great since you dont have to worry about what and where youre going to eat everyday, and it saves a lot of $. For upperclassmen, I'd venture to say that cost has been a little more for me since you dont have a mean plan per se and cost is more variable. Food is def. the biggest expense.</p>
<p>So with the whole curving and stuff- does that mean kids who arent as book smart as others at Duke suffer...</p>
<p>maybe they are good at a specific job and will have a great career in whatever they do but at Duke they are a below average student- does the curving hurt them?</p>
<p>wneckid - these curves are really only applicable bio, chem, and to a lesser extent physics and math premed classes (about eight to ten courses). most of the social sciences, humanities, engineering, and upper division courses in the basic sciences are less concerned with grading on a curve. in that respect, most students here do pretty well in terms of placing into jobs, grad school, professional school, or whatever. I think that even among premeds, certain people are better with certain subjects. for example, i found physics to be pretty straitfoward while i deplored orgo, while i know plenty of people who were the opposite. so on average, i think most people do fine academically since some are good at some things and not so at others, vice versa.</p>