Duke or Amherst?

[goldenboy8784]

<p>

@NYU2013

The triumvirate of LACs (Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore) is on par with HYPSM for educational quality without a doubt. Amherst benefits from not having graduate students, which means that professors will be looking to UNDERGRADS to assist with their research. Somewhere like Duke, professors will be spending most of their time and energy on the graduate students.

Duke isn’t Texas, Berkeley, NYU, or Michigan…there are literally hundreds of different programs that allow students to meaningfully interact with star professors for guidance on classwork and research. A lot of these close relationships start as soon as professors step on campus.</p>

<p>[Duke</a> University | Focus Program: For Students](<a href=“http://focus.duke.edu/for-students]Duke”>The Focus Program (FOCUS) | Focus Program)
[Duke</a> University | Trinity College of Arts & Sciences : First-Year Seminars Program](<a href=“http://trinity.duke.edu/first-year-seminars-program]Duke”>http://trinity.duke.edu/first-year-seminars-program)
[Pratt</a> Research Fellows Program | Duke Pratt School of Engineering](<a href=“http://www.pratt.duke.edu/undergrad/students/research-fellows]Pratt”>Pratt Research Fellows Program | Duke Pratt School of Engineering)
[NAE</a> Grand Challenge Scholars Program | Duke Pratt School of Engineering](<a href=“http://www.pratt.duke.edu/undergrad/students/grand-challenge-scholars-program]NAE”>Katsouleas Grand Challenges Scholars Program | Duke Pratt School of Engineering)
[VIGRE</a> Undergraduate Research](<a href=“http://www.math.duke.edu/vigre/undergrad_res.html]VIGRE”>http://www.math.duke.edu/vigre/undergrad_res.html)
[Duke</a> University | Undergraduate Research: Howard Hughes Research Fellows](<a href=“http://undergraduateresearch.duke.edu/programs/hh-research-fellows]Duke”>http://undergraduateresearch.duke.edu/programs/hh-research-fellows)
[Duke</a> Marine Lab Scholars Programs ? Duke Marine Lab](<a href=“http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/marinelab/programs/undergraduate/scholars]Duke”>http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/marinelab/programs/undergraduate/scholars)</p>

<p>What makes you so confident that HYPSM offer amazing educational quality compared to Duke? Just because they are more prestigious? Their professors are even more renowned so they will probably spend no time with undergrads by your logic…</p>

<p>

@NYU2013

The PhD per capita production at Amherst (percent of students who go on to earn PhDs) is likely higher than Duke. You can find Amherst on the top 10 list for per capita production of PhDs in some fields. The rest of the triumvirate is very present on the top 10 lists for per capita PhD production. Duke is nowhere to be found. Amherst is ranked number 8 in the country for per capita PhD production in the humanities.

Duke students, on average, are more interested in Business, Law, Medicine, Public Policy, Engineering, and Teaching careers than pursuits in academia.</p>

<p>

@NYU2013

Lay prestige (prestige among friends, family, the public who don’t know much about colleges or academia) is meaningless unless you’re trying to impress strangers on the street. The prestige of Amherst means more in most academic circles than Duke.

It’s meaningless that I care what my family and social circle thinks about which college is more prestigious? You must be kidding. Why would Amherst be considered more reputable in educational circles when Duke has top 20 departments almost entirely across the board while Amherst has almost zero superstar faculty members.</p>

<p>Academic reputation is derived from a combination of student body strength, faculty prowess, and postgraduate outcomes. Amherst matches Duke with regards to student body and postgraduate outcomes but trails in terms of faculty prowess.</p>

[curvyteen]

<p>Anyone who thinks Amherst College is more prestigious than Duke University needs to take a close look at objective data and rid themselves of their delusions.
I’m sure finalchild is not affiliated with Amherst in any way, and is not hugely biased (please note the sarcasm).</p>

[Ivyt]

<p>It isn’t as much that as it is that he seems to have an anti Duke agenda.</p>

[sally305]

<p>Are you male or female? I would have reservations about going to Amherst right now, especially if I were a young woman. The new president is trying to change the culture but it is going to take time.</p>

<p>Amherst’s applications were down over 8% this year…likely as a result of the negative publicity surrounding its handling of sexual assaults on campus.</p>

[NYU2013]

<p>Yes Goldenboy, we all know you went to Duke and think it’s the greatest school ever. Your obvious bias is showing. </p>

<p>(1) Duke just isn’t Amherst, I’m sorry. A student will get more one-on-one time at Amherst than Duke. Amherst has fewer large classes than Duke. There are no graduate students at Amherst for students to compete with.</p>

<p>(2) If Duke were as renown for producing top minds as the others, then it would be HYPSMD. It’s not. Duke simply does not have the same resources to offer as HYPSM. </p>

<p>(3) You need to relearn logic, because you obviously don’t understand it. I never said the renown of professors affects the amount of time spent with students. So no, by my logic that doesn’t follow. </p>

<p>(4) Please stop with your bias against Duke, it’s pathetic. You’ve never attended NYU, so you have no idea how much time students can spend with star faculty members. In my department, star professors taught undergrad classes ranging from intro classes to advanced topics courses with only 8 students. Star professors in my department were also willing to help students with undergrad honors dissertations. They would invite students out on social outings with professors and grad students; some even held office hours in their apartments. I’m sure students at NYU can have just as much access to top professors as they can at Duke. </p>

<p>(5) If you care about what lay people think about prestige, then yeah that’s pretty meaningless. If school X is more prestigious to people that matter aka employers and grad schools, and school Y is more prestigious to John Doe on the street, does school Y’s prestige actually matter? It only matters if you’re concerned with impressing John Doe and not employers or grad schools.</p>

<p>(6) If Duke is as successful in student outcomes, then why is it’s per capita PhD production lower? If Amherst’s postgraduates are ‘just as successful’ as Duke’s but Amherst lacks the same ‘amazing faculty’ as Duke, then clearly Amherst must be doing something a lot better than Duke. </p>

<p>(7) If students at Duke are more interested in preprofessional areas, which I don’t think there’s actually conclusive data to support, then wouldn’t it actually be better for OP to go to Amherst which would then foster a more academic and less preprofessional student body environment?</p>

<p>No one cares that you’re in love with Duke. You went there and loved it. Great, glad you did. That doesn’t mean everyone else is as in love with it as you are.</p>

[finalchild]

<p>curvyteen, I actually can’t stand Amherst. And sally305 makes a good point, although Duke isn’t the school I would think of if I was concerned about women. I do admit for having a liking for David Foster Wallace.</p>

<p>Listen, we all know Duke is a very fine school. That said, I can’t believe there is a thread now where anyone is suggesting Duke is a superior undergrad experience to Amherst. And suggesting that Amherst has subpar professors. The world has turned upside down.</p>

[par72]

<p>Duke offers many nore opportunities than a very small eliit LAC OF 17OO students. The combination of a fantastic undergraduate program supplemented by some of the top professional grad and professional schools places Duke in a very unique position(Stanford, HYP, UChicago). Amherst College is located in a college town that is mainly focused on the larger UMass-Amherst. Due to its small size and small number of alumni, Amherst can not possibly compete with the size, extent and diversity of the Duke alumni network worldwide. Amherst is one of the best LAC’S but Duke is Duke!</p>

[edwitten]

<p>I just committed to Duke over Princeton for physics! Take from that what you will. Duke just struck me as a great school with an exceptionally talented, diverse and ambitious student body. It has its flaws, but people like NYU are doing it a great disservice by claiming that a school like Amherst has more to offer. Obviously, I would advice you to pick Duke, but I am more than willing to acknowledge that Amherst is a great school as well. Unfortunately, it seems like some of the posters on this forum have little respect for Duke. Perhaps they have an axe to grind with the school, or maybe they resent the fact that Duke ascended to the highest eschelon of universities as quickly as it did. I can only speculate as to the source of their hatred. Just know that you must take the opinions on this forum with a huge pinch of salt. Don’t take my opinion at face value either. I make my bias known, but at the same time, I refuse to denigrate a peer institution just to ensure that you attend Duke. I wish the same could be said of some of the more combative posters on this forum.</p>

[finalchild]

<p>“Duke is Duke”. What the heck does that mean???</p>

<p>Wow. Let’s come to our senses here. There are specific reasons different people might choose either. But lack of prestige for Amherst is not one of them. Now the school that actually has been ranked #1 or #2 in LAC rankings for 25-30 years is not good enough??? At least 80% of even marginally informed persons would give the prestige nod here to Amherst. If you want pre-professional and image-conscious choose Duke. But the OP said he/she prefers the vibe at Amherst and is only worried about prestige. That makes the choice clear. And we all know that the Amherst-Williams rivalry is every bit as good as Duke-UNC :).</p>

[curvyteen]

<p>The LAC rankings are a completely different ball game. Duke was recently ranked as high as third in the university rankings where it competes with Harvard, Yale, Princeton and Stanford. Amherst competes with Bowdoin and Middlebury. Let’s not kid ourselves here. If Amherst is so spectacular, how come the number of students who applied fell drastically this year? How come Amherst is easier to get into? How come Amherst has a lower yield (which is likely to decline further)?
Let’s be real. Amherst is a good school, but to say it’s better than Duke is insane. Equally good? Perhaps. Better? No way in hell.</p>

[finalchild]

<p>curvy, you’ve got a lot to learn. First, please show me the ranking that has Duke #3.</p>

<p>I’ll admit I generally prefer LACs…and having said that, I view Williams, Amherst, Swat as a clear preference over Duke, Middlebury, Pomona, Bowdoin as a marginal preference, and Haverford, Davidson, CMC, Vassar and Wesleyan as even. </p>

<p>Since when did Duke go to bed and wake up as Harvard? Or wake up as Amherst? Insanity indeed.</p>

[finalchild]

<p>And, btw, all things being equal, Duke does NOT compete with HYPSM. Most would not pick Duke over Columbia or Chicago. I’ll concede that the odds get closer to 50/50 with the other Ivies, Hopkins, etc.</p>

[patriotsfan1]

<p>[Duke</a> Track and Field - Trackstreet Boys - YouTube](<a href=“Duke Track and Field - Trackstreet Boys - YouTube”>Duke Track and Field - Trackstreet Boys - YouTube)</p>

<p>If this doesn’t convince you to go to Duke nothing will</p>

[curvyteen]

<p>You have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re likening freaking Amherst college to Harvard. Are you out of your mind?
I am providing a link to the historical US News rankings. Come back to me if you don’t find Duke at number 3. [U.S&lt;/a&gt;. News Rankings Through the Years](<a href=“http://web.archive.org/web/20070908142457/http://chronicle.com/stats/usnews/]U.S”>U.S. News Rankings Through the Years)</p>

<p>Also, stop making things up. Just because you don’t think people choose Duke over Chicago and Columbia doesn’t make it true. Duke was far more selective than Chicago (and had a higher yield) until Chicago began its controversial marketing campaign. Duke still comfortably wins cross admit battles with Chicago according to student generated data from parchment.com
[Compare</a> Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.](<a href=“Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.”>Compare Colleges: Side-by-side college comparisons | Parchment - College admissions predictions.)</p>

<p>Is Amherst a good school? Definitely.
Is it HYPSM level? No chance in hell.
I’m not saying that Duke is HYPSM level either. But it is definitely more likely to get there. This is a school that has been ranked as high as 3rd in the US (tied with Yale). No other school in the country (with the exception of Stanford) has ever been ranked as high as a member of HYP on US News. Duke has been ranked as high as 11th in the world by the Times Higher Education ranking. Ahead of even Stanford. Amherst can’t replicate that. Duke spends 900 million dollars on research each year (2nd highest in the nation). That’s almost Amherst’s entire endowment! And you’re going to sit here and pretend that Amherst college is in a different league than DUKE UNIVERSITY? A psychiatric evaluation is in order ;)</p>

[finalchild]

<p>curvy, how old are you? Are you attending Duke?</p>

[curvyteen]

<p>What does my age have to do with anything? And to answer your question, I’m applying ED for the class of 2018. I’m not trying to be confrontational. I’m perfectly happy stating that they are both great schools and that the OP should choose the one she prefers based on intangible qualities like fit. You are being unduly provocative by saying that Amherst is better than Duke, and I am not going to let your dubious assertions influence impressionable posters. Specially since they are not backed by an iota of objective evidence.</p>

[Kelowna]

<p>

@finalchild

Most would not pick Duke over Columbia or Chicago.

</p>

<p>Most might not. My S picked Duke over Chicago and Yale And Caltech. And Dartmouth. And more…</p>

[finalchild]

<p>OK, you win. I’m not going to debate with a 16 or 17 year old. Provocative is saying someone is “insane” for having an opinion. Good luck with ED to Duke. It is a very fine school. And, btw, the OP already said the fit was better at Amherst and that the concern was prestige-oriented.</p>

[phuriku]

<p>curvyteen: Very silly analysis. You’re just cherry-picking random results.</p>

<p>For instance, the Duke/Chicago cross-admit data isn’t statistically significant, and a 63-37 ratio indicates that the sample size is under 20. Much more statistically significant is Parchment’s own cross-admit ratings ([Parchment</a> Student Choice College Rankings 2013 | Parchment - College admissions predictions.](<a href=“http://www.parchment.com/c/college/college-rankings.php]Parchment”>http://www.parchment.com/c/college/college-rankings.php)), which measures cross-admit data between all schools. In that ranking, Chicago is 6 and Duke is 12, showing that Chicago is outperforming Duke in the cross-admit battle. (I hate to see what it’ll be like next year, now that Chicago’s admit rate is 3% lower than Duke’s.)</p>

<p>By the way, in the same ranking, Amherst is 9, showing that Amherst is outperforming Duke as well. In terms of overall education and career prospects as well, I would give Amherst the crown over Duke.</p>

<p>Of course, as we all know, this board is crowded with Dukies with inferiority complexes that are trying to combat the obvious fact that Duke is a fading power in the world of universities.</p>

[finalchild]

<p>I know Kelowna, I don’t like talking about Duke in any negative way mainly because of you. I am guessing, though, that the full ride had something to do with it. As I have acknowledged elsewhere, I grew up very close to Duke and it has never been one of my faves and the deal was sealed in 1992 because I am a Univ of Kentucky basketball fan. Enjoy the champagne.</p>