People on this website seem to love giving “hot take” advice instead of the obvious, sound advice. Duke is the obvious choice here. Go to Duke because of all it offers as an institution. If you are interested in BME, the rankings say there is nowhere better to be than Duke (except maybe JHU). Because Duke is a private research university and not a giant state school, there will be more research opportunities available to you at Duke. I can give you so many reasons to come to Duke…I think it’s the best choice for the next four years of your life and also the rest of your life.
@StanManYeah, if you’re willing to foot his/her tuition bill, I’m sure the OP would choose Duke with no hesitation.
@StanManYeah Duke will cost the OP 40k per year, not to mention that he plans to go to med school, which is just as, if not more, expensive. Plus, the OP’s family has three more kids to support. Both are reputable schools, but s/he gets to go to one for free, essentially saving 120k. And stop referring to the rankings constantly, UMD is a very good school, and it’s the OP’s choice. I agree with PurpleTitan, if you’re footing the bill, then the OP might choose Duke.
Again, it’s the OP’s choice, so if s/he can afford the 40k with no foreseeable problems in the future, then Duke might be a good choice.
Several times it has been pposted that OP will save 120k. It is 160k (40k times 4 years).
@3boystogo Whoops, sorry for that.
One possible way of looking at this is what does happen if you decide your freshman year you made a mistake? If you’re at UMD, can you transfer easily to Duke and afford it? Probably not. If you’re at Duke and decide you’re too far from home or whatever, you can probably switch to UMD fairly easily.
Of course, this all depends on your parents ability to pay for Duke and future college costs for your younger siblings.
@StanManYeah…you still haven’t answered what you are basing your opinion on? Did you attend both?
@moscott Well, since he’s constantly referring to the rankings, I have to assume he’s basing his opinion on the rankings.
Go to UMD and ask your parents if they can save some of that money for you to go to med school.
If it were Duke vs. East Podunk, then yes, i think the school name would make a difference. But Top state school vs Duke? Go for the no cost option!!
I believe that your vantage point is being a first year student at Duke. It is likely that you haven’t ever earned $100k in your life, nor do you have any experience at UMD-CP or knowledge of it’s educational worth in bioengineering. OP’s family has 4 kids to educate and even if they are affluent, it’s insane to spend $100k more than necessary if grad school/med school is likely for the OP.
@StanManYeah with all due respect (which is more than you have extended to FrugalDoctor) I believe that most of your posts have the sole purpose of extolling the superiority of Duke to all other institutions of higher education. While it is a fine school and it’s nice that you are happy there, I think that FrugalDoctor has far more experience and credibility in terms of advising the OP and that you are the one who should not be taken seriously.
Is this a hypothetical question? Have Banneker Key decisions been announced yet? Did you apply to Duke ED?
I attended UMD for my BSEE, so I am bias. But I have worked with colleagues who obtained their engineering degrees at Duke, Johns Hopkins and MIT. What we all realized was that, at the undergraduate level, none of the institutions had secret access to breakthroughs in calculus, physics, chemistry, engineering or any of the accredited list of courses that made a difference in our outcomes. We were all learning the same things. But the costs and access to graduate research opportunities were significantly different. In my experience, the prestige of the school did not predict the quality of the graduate. My advice comes from my personal experiences through years in engineering, medicine and hiring physicians. Your motivation, work ethics, and personality is much more important than the institutions you attend.
I understand that the OP wants the best value and outcome for the undergraduate education. You can search hundreds, if not thousands, of CC posts on this subject and find an inconclusive answer. But bear in mind that one thing you will learn for sure is that your choice may have massive financial consequences. Choose the place you will thrive at the lowest price.
" Please consider this, however. MANY – and I do mean many – pre-meds change to other tracks and majors during their undergraduate years"
Just another reason why the OP should go to Maryland if the/she decides to pursue another area of engineering. Duke is nothing special, outside of BME, as compared to MD.
^ ^ ^
Other than the university’s overall reputation, which is of far greater importance than any individual discipline’s or school’s stature.
^^^^Yeah. I hear that a lot from boosters of programs that are a bit lacking.
I love all the people saying that Duke is “clearly” better than UMD (which I assume to mean UMCP). This is silly.
Duke has higher inputs. UMD is a state flagship for a highly educated state. Outputs are actually pretty equivalent for equivalent fields. No advantage to either.
Duke may give you good contacts. UMD has more people, and thus more opportunities to make good contacts even if they’re not as concentrated (which I’m not convinced of, but I’ll let it slide). Basically, if you’re the sort of person who would make good contacts, you’ll get them at either school; if you’re not, you won’t get them at either school. No advantage to either.
(Seriously, what’s with the whole contacts and reputation meme? Study after study has found that the important thing is holding a degree, and where that degree comes from has secondary importance in a few fields, tertiary at best importance in most.)
Duke would cost $160k. UMD would be at least close to free. Advantage Maryland.
That last one would IMO be the deciding factor even if Duke won the other two, though—I mean, it’s quite simply an opportunity cost thing. The median starting salary for biomedical engineers (that was your field, yes?—apologies if I’ve misremembered) is $53,800. That means that if you go to UMD, you’re starting out with more than 3 years’ salary in your pocket.
But wait! What if Duke gives you a higher salary. Let’s even imagine (it doesn’t work this way, but just to make Duke look as good as possible) that going to Duke gives you a 10% starting salary premium, and UMD gives you a 10% starting salary penalty, so that Duke has a 20% advantage. Under those assumptions, and assuming a 5% annual raise (since that would help make Duke look better, too), you don’t break even until year 3, and actually year 4 or even 5 if you consider the potential returns on the tuition money spent.
And since you’re looking at medical school, the opportunity costs of that $160k are even greater.
The answer is clear.
If the scenario was financially the opposite, we would clearly say go to Duke and save the money. In medicine, there is no CPT code for the college you attended. Insurance companies pay you the same.
Think about these questions:
- If your parents pay $160,000 for you to go to Duke, will they have enough money to find your three younger siblings to a similar level plus college cost inflation, *and* their own retirement? If not, then Maryland is the wiser choice for family harmony in the future. If they spend a lot on you, so that they must financially limit your younger siblings' choices of colleges, then the future family drama may be a problem. If they need financial support in their retirement while you are still burdened with huge medical school debt, then that can also be a problem.
- Remember that medical school is no sure thing to get admitted to -- and you will be lucky to get into just one medical school. The corollary is that you will likely have little choice to be able to choose a less expensive one. Given the high cost of medical school (tuition and fees at https://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/ , not including living expenses; also see https://www.aamc.org/download/152968/data/debtfactcard.pdf ), consider whether you would rather have the $160,000 to lower your medical school costs, if you get in and your parents are willing to apply it to your medical school if you choose Maryland. Note that lower medical school debt can give you more options for choosing a specialty and starting your professional career -- you may not be required to chase the highest paying specialties or jobs if you find lower paying ones that you like better.
- In the (probably more likely) case that you do not go to medical school, consider which school you would rather attend and get your bachelor's degree at, including consideration of your major or what you may change your major to. If your preference is Maryland, the choice is easy. If your preference is Duke, you need to decide whether it is worth $160,000 more.
This is not necessarily true. For example, in CS recruiting of college students, a university’s overall reputation does not seem to matter much compared to other factors, including reputation in CS, local convenience, and size.
Investment banking and management consulting are the industries where a university’s overall reputation tends to matter the most in recruiting and hiring, but some who place a high priority on that may exist in other industries (though they may be a minority in many).
However, starting at Duke and then transferring to Maryland will mean no full ride scholarship, so the cost would be $40,000 for a year of Duke followed by probably $75,000 or $135,000 for three years of Maryland (depending on in-state or out-of-state), for a total of $115,000 or $175,000. That would be a very expensive mistake compared to starting at Maryland with the full ride.