I am very fortunate to have been admitted to Duke and Penn - both with full rides.
I applied undecided (to Trinity and CAS respectively) and will probably double major in economics and a natural science (is this an unorthodox combination?). However, it will not be Biology so I am not considering the Life Science & Management program at Penn.
Which university is better in terms of student life, job prospects, and academic flexibility? How rigid are the general requirements at Duke compared to Penn?
If you’re considering Neuroeconomics, both Penn and Duke have exceptionally strong faculty. Honestly, academics and job prospects are virtually identical at both–especially for consulting and iBanking. Duke might be a tad more academically flexible because we have an Interdepartmental Major (essentially allowing you to “double major” while taking fewer courses than a traditional double major" and a Program II Major (essentially allowing you to create a coherent, themed major).
Student life is a bit different. They are both rather fratty. However, Penn has the city of Philadelphia (if you enjoy exploring city life- I personally don’t), whereas Duke has Selective Living Groups as an alternative social outlet (I’m in one; Selective Living Groups are coed living groups that host open social events and also have social events with one another). Duke has better sports (basketball, okay maybe not so much this year), and a lot of Duke students are really passionate about watching sport- whereas the majority of Penn students don’t really care.
Also, from discussing our respective schools with my friends at Penn, I get a vibe that Duke is more relaxed and slow-paced, whereas Penn tends to be more Type A and Wharton-driven. It depends on what you seek in a college experience. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Also, I live in Sweden, and friends are telling me that I would be stupid to reject an Ivy League School for Duke. Is that a logical remark? Are there any people that reject Penn for Duke?
@inshm2016
There are people who reject Duke for Penn, but very few internationals do so because Penn has greater global recognition as an ivy league school and because it has stronger graduate schools (which contribute a lot to its international prominence). For economics Penn is ranked higher than Duke and also for chemistry, physics, mathematics and biochemistry. In terms of job opportunities, while both schools do great, Penn is known for having the best job outcomes and highest salaries after Harvard. Also Penn is known for its interdisciplinary approach to education more than any other university and has been a pioneer in this area. There are many dual degree programs, undergraduates can easily double major, take classes not only in the undergraduate schools at penn but also in its graduate schools too, interdisciplinary research opportunities. it is part of penn DNA. Penn has a very flexible curriculum.
In terms of social life, penn is known as the social ivy. it has arguably the best social life of all the ivies and t top schools and everyone recognizes this. People work hard but also know how to have fun and party and be sociable.
Also i feel Penns location is kind of better, but that depends on preference. I am an international student too from Europe and was face with the dilemma between Penn, Columbia and Duke. I chose Penn and I feel I really made the right decision for me.
Penn has better name recognition than Duke. Honestly, the weather and Philly being more of a real city than the RTP area would be major factors.
Also, if you are like many Europeans, you aren’t into religion that much, and Duke loses points if you are looking for diverse and tolerant of many religions including lack thereof.
Penn is NOT Type A and Wharton driven. That’s hilarious. Penn is very relaxed. Wharton is known for grade inflation folks.
Both with full rides - hmmmm… This means you are very poor, in US terms anyway. Penn would give a full ride to someone who could prove that their family income is less than $60,000 (last I checked, that may have increased). IMHO, if you will be cash poor, being in Philly will be a less expensive place to have a good time than RTP. Also flights should be cheaper, and if you had to, you could fly into the NYC area and probably save more money.
Hi There- first of all, CONGRATS! These are two absolutely outstanding universities and you literally cannot go wrong in your choice here.
When I was choosing between colleges, my top three were Penn, Columbia and Yale among a few other great schools. I chose Penn because it had the most outstanding academic opportunities, more research funding and opportunities than nearly all of its peers, and the perfect balance between a beautiful, ivy covered campus and access to America’s fifth largest city.
In terms of flexibility, I was able to graduate on time as a double major and a double minor with two concentrations (one in each of my majors). I was also able to study abroad over the summer and to partake in extracurricular activities in really meaningful ways. It’s all about time management and prioritization. Penn has a really outstanding set of general education requirements that you can tailor to your interests while still exploring all that the school has to offer. I never found the requirements limiting in any way and I was appreciative of the way in which those requirements encouraged me to step beyond my traditional fields of interest.
In reference to one of your points, I would not simply choose Penn over Duke simply because it’s an Ivy. The Ivy status definitely confers benefits and it gives you access to a network of peers and certain connections that don’t exist outside of it. That being said, no one familiar with these schools is going to judge someone for choosing UChicago over Yale or Duke over Columbia or Brown over Stanford or any other combination you can think of. At this level of education, it comes down to fit. Penn’s grad programs in your areas of interests do seem stronger than Duke’s and that can be relevant because strong grad programs attract the best scholars who are doing the most interesting research. At Penn, thanks to the one university policy, you can easily take classes with those professors and do research in the graduate departments to your heart’s content. That being said, it’s not like you would really be sacrificing a ton in terms of quality if you chose to matriculate at Duke because you believe its an environment more suited to you as an individual.
At the end of the day, you need to be happy where YOU are. If that’s on Duke’s gorgeous gothic campus (with far superior weather), then that’s where you should go. If you think you’d be happier on Penn’s bustling urban campus, then that’s the place for you. Good luck! Feel free to reach out if you have any questions about Penn And congrats again!
Oo and I would also like to emphasize that Penn is not “Type-A Wharton-driven.” The college of arts & sciences, being the largest of Penn’s four undergrad schools, really dictates the atmosphere on campus. While having three undergraduate professional schools on campus (Wharton, Engineering, and Nursing), as well as top grad programs in business, law, medicine, and more definitely create an unmistakably pre-professional atmosphere, I can say with certainty that the campus culture is quite the opposite of “Type-A and Wharton driven.” And as a student in the College, if you are looking to avoid the pre-professional atmosphere, it is more than easy enough to immerse yourself in a world totally unrelated to that culture. In fact, Penn is known as the Social Ivy precisely because Penn students know how to let loose and have fun! So don’t let that misconception discourage you from choosing Penn.
It’s true that Penn enjoys greater international recognition than Duke. In the US, they split cross-admits evenly. http://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Duke+University&with=University+of+Pennsylvania. People in the South regard Duke higher than Penn, and vice versa. Prestige is regional, and looking back, I know so many people who have gone on to do great things from lower-ranked schools that I don’t even think prestige should even be a factor when considering between colleges.
Penn is ranked higher for economics, but that’s moot unless you’re planning on going to Econ grad school. In which case you’d want to double major in Math. And Duke’s Math is ranked higher.
The marginal difference in salary might be due to the fact that more Penn grads go on to work in the Northeast, where the cost of living is higher.
Any respectable people would at NRC rankings over USNews rankings for rankings of academic departments. Penn and Duke are even for Chemistry http://chronicle.com/article/NRC-Rankings-Overview-/124713/ . But Penn physics is ranked higher.
Penn is an amazing school. It’d have been my third choice after Duke and Princeton. I considered transferring there after an unhappy first few weeks, but now I can’t imagine being anywhere else than Duke.
Re: academic flexibility, I have had no problems fulfilling the gen ed requirements. Duke and Penn are equally flexible on this front. I’m planning on doing a Mathematics and Statistics double major, with an Econ minor, and I will be able to do this by taking 4 classes ever semester without ever needing to do summer school.
I just want to add that I don’t love the parchment comparisons because I have trouble trusting a website that indicates that Harvard is the 41st most desired university but that Harvey Mudd is the 3rd. (http://www.parchment.com/c/college/college-rankings.php?page=2&perPage=25). I think it speaks a little bit to sample bias. But I think the point remains that in the US the choice between the Ivies and Duke is not an obvious one for accepted students and that relying on what ‘most people’ would do will not be as meaningful as choosing between the two schools on criteria that fit most closely with what you are looking for in a school.
Yeah the data on that website are self-reported, so naturally Harvard would be the most hated. But I think the trends are consistent with what I saw in my high school, which sends 40% of the graduating class per year to Ivies and other top schools. Harvey Mudd is an extremely niche school, so I’m not surprised it does well in these rankings (I think Harvey Mudd only loses to CalTech out of all the other schools that its applicants tend to also apply to).
No, if you want to have an engineering major, you must be a Pratt student. It’s very easy to transfer schools after you matriculate though. You can also sign up for engineering courses while still technically enrolled in Trinity. Engineering +Economics is a VERY popular double major at Duke, but you must be enrolled in Pratt.
Honestly, I think the quibbles between department strength/prestige/grad opportunities are a bit ridiculous as they are virtually indistinguishable. Penn’s employment/salary numbers get inflated a bit because of Wharton and those industries pay more. But Duke students interested in finance/consulting have just as much success as Penn CAS students in obtaining jobs and being successful, maybe even more so because they’re not competing with Wharton students on the same campus in the interview process.
I see Penn as the most equivalent to Duke as any school in the country – they were my final two choices personally. After visiting, I chose Duke because I thought Duke had a stronger sense of community and school pride (mostly because of top notch athletics and I also was looking forward to the basketball “experience”) and the weather is nicer which really leads to a great fun college experience. It would be totally reasonable for somebody to choose Penn over Duke because they prefer a more urban environment or for any other number of reasons. I also felt Penn’s campus pride and social/academic balance to be among the best in the country. I personally found Durham to be a great college town in that it has everything I could ask for (it’s becoming a high tech center of the country and has great “foodie” restaurants actually, with major revitalization projects ongoing), the majority of activities are on a sprawling beautiful campus, it’s more affordable, and the bars cater to a college crowd so it’s not like you even have to be 21 to get in (like you do in Philly). I personally liked Duke’s campus more and thought that was more important.
I view Duke and Penn as so close academically – the choice should really come down to fit and where you think you’d be happier. Congratulations and good luck!
Because everyone here wants WS/consulting lol and it is perceived as a rigorous academic combination.
I disagree that Duke and Penn are the closest equivalents to each other. Philadelphia/Wharton seem to play a big role in creating a culture that Duke does not share. I see Dartmouth as more similar to Duke.
And congrats again!