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<ol>
<li><p>Grew up in an area where the particular ethnic group was not present, so may have acquired stereotypes without realizing that they are inaccurate and offensive.</p></li>
<li><p>Has a hard time distinguishing between the background noise of a few “PC police” types who get offended at everything and call everything “racist”, and situations which are actually offensive to many more people.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Poetgrl made such a great point that although lots of us parents may have done really foolish things, it didn’t end up memorialized forever on the internet. I shudder to even think.</p>
<p>Having your photo on the internet at one of these parties has the potential to be incredibly damaging.</p>
<p>So is it possible we are raising our kids wrong when we send them off to college not understanding that at least some parts of society consider these parties racist? What if individuals who do consider it racist behavior happen to be reading our kids job applications some day? I am wondering how swayed potential employers, who find the photos offensive, will be by various arguments about intent and ignorance?</p>
<p>^^^
I agree wholeheartedly, alexisss - I wasn’t offering an excuse, just a sociological observation. It’s shocking to me because we live in an extremely diverse and tolerant urban area and my kids grew up with friends from every background imaginable. But I realize that there are many places where this is not the norm.</p>
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<p>No, I actually felt stupid because I never “got” those jokes. I grew up partially in an area with significant Polish-heritage people (my two best friends were named Maziarczyk and Nadelski), whom I thought were normal, regular people, so I never understood the undertone of those jokes.</p>
<p>The possibility of having one’s photo on Facebook while attending one of these themed parties might be a deterrent. But I really think it would be beneficial to children growing up in a much more racially/ethnically/culturally diverse United States than their parents grew up in, to be more aware of cultural issues. I am not talking about being politically correct, I am talking about becoming culturally up to speed in a nation that is changing demographically. Even if you live in a community or part of the country that has little ethnic/racial diversity, your kids may end up working for corporations in which the boss or the coworkers are from different backgrounds, or there may be a requirement for international travel or communication with people from other parts of the world. It is to our children’s disadvantage to be culturally clueless. </p>
<p>A couple of years ago, there was an incident at an elite university not far from where I live in which a couple of students chose to wear blackface on Halloween, and this resulted in a big uproar which was addressed in a variety of ways including articles in the student newspaper and discussions of racial issues on campus. Posters on this thread have cited other examples of behavior on college campuses that could be understood as gross insensitivity or cluenessness depending on one’s point of view. Even if you consider these things as merely youthful hijinks, I think that the lack of social knowledge that would result in college students being so unaware of what would be offensive to others of different backgrounds is a disadvantage. Parents who want their kids to grow up and be successful in the increasingly global business and professional environment may want to consider the possible liability of cluelessness/insensitivity about racial and cultural issues.</p>
<p>I dunno. It kinda pains me to see kids being winked at in such dreadful behavior because of youth.</p>
<p>Young or old, some things are obvious.</p>
<p>alexiss,
What action by the university do you think would be appropriate in this situation?</p>
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<p>Let’s not beat around the bush. Duke is a fine university, but it is known for having students who have an aggrandized sense of self, are oh-so-very-eager to try to put themselves in the HYP camp, and show a lack of sportsmanship and grace as evidenced by this and other incidents. (There was a discussion on CC some time back about Duke boosters who deliberately blocked the view of fans of the opposing team who were sitting on the Duke and who were wheelchair-bound. Because it’s SOOOO important to take rooting for a team to that extreme that you’re rude to wheelchair-bound people. Please.)</p>
<p>It’s the one top-20 university that, if my kids were looking at / accepted to, I’d have to think long and hard about whether it’s good for them to hang out in such a culture. There are jerks everywhere, absolutely – but there’s an arrogance about Duke culture that just doesn’t seem as prevalent in other similar-caliber universities.</p>
<p>Disband the frat. </p>
<p>Or all frats. But I’m biased since I don’t like Greek life. xD </p>
<p>Going the whole “teaching opportunity” route is such a slap on the wrist. Do offenders actually learn? Is it effective? I’d like to say no, but I’m not sure.
It’s only a teachable moment when the wrong is committed in ignorance. Not so much so when the offenders knew what they were doing imo. Simple discipline is in order at that point.</p>
<p>Alexisss, there’s no law against being a stupid idiot in this country. There are consequences, but not laws. That’s the thing.</p>
<p>So what can Duke do?</p>
<p>If they expel the kids? They might face a first amendment lawsuit. Your right to be an idiot is protected under the constitution. we see this all the time. Nazis marching in jewish towns, etc…</p>
<p>This, however, does not mean you will be invited to any dinner parties or sought out by the local heros and fun guys, just that if you want to be an insensitive jerk, you can legally be an insensitive jerk. You don’t want to live in a country where you can’t be an insensitive jerk, because your version of insensitive and the guy down the street’s version of insensitive are not the same.</p>
<p>Now, hate crimes are against the law. This is not a hate crime.</p>
<p>If my kid did something like this? They’d be in for a rude awakening. Loss of allowance, loss of car, loss of all sorts of the perks of being my kid. But, if she did? I’d still consider it a teaching moment.</p>
<p>What does being in a fraternity have to do with anything, alexisss? It could have just as easily been a bunch of guys who lived off campus throwing such a party.</p>
<p>Not all fraternity members act like this and not all people who act like this are members of fraternities. The national organization will most likely disband this chapter (rightly so) anyway.</p>
<p>Note that the Duke chapter of ΚΣ had already been derecognized before, but recently regained recognition after a number of years as an unrecognized off-campus club. Derecognition is an obvious potential penalty. Given that Duke appears to [promote</a> fraternities and sororities](<a href=“Duke Student Affairs”>Duke Student Affairs), it seems unlikely to go further than that (though the chapter might be additionally penalized by the ΚΣ national organization).</p>
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<p>The school’s recognition and promotion of fraternities and sororities (including the one in question) means that the school become associated with the incident at the fraternity more than if it were just a bunch of unorganized guys or an unrecognized off-campus club.</p>
<p>Bay wrote:</p>
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<p>This is a common belief. I think it unnecessarily delimits the word “racism.” Suppose Manager A were a hiring manager, frequently in the position of choosing between white candidates and African-American candidates. Suppose in fact, the candidates of both races were equally qualified, by whatever measure Manager A would want to adopt. But suppose that A wrongly assessed the white candidates as better, and therefore always ended up hiring white people.</p>
<p>If asked, A would honestly say that she picked the more qualified candidate each time; she would believe that she was picking the best person. But some unconscious belief of hers would be leading her to say the white candidates were better, even though they weren’t.</p>
<p>What do we call this pervasive problem? Manager A is not an evil person. She has no intent at all to be racist. She nevertheless is unintentionally discriminating against qualified employees on the basis of their race. This is bad for the candidates, and it’s also bad for her because she is missing out on some great employees. I would call this racism, and I would say that Manager A would do well to realize her unconscious biases and adopt some conscious strategy to get around them, so that she can hire better candidates.</p>
<p>The difference is, I am willing to say that people who do not intend to be racist nevertheless have racist attitudes that they don’t want. I include myself in this group. And we would be better off if we admitted this and acted accordingly, rather than believing that a conscious opposition to racism is enough.</p>
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Pizzagirl, I like many of your posts, but I cannot agree with you on what you posted above. I think we can all agree that much about the party was offensive, and the people throwing it were either stupid or incredibly clueless. </p>
<p>Where I draw the line is making generalized insinuations about Duke or its students. When frat boys at Yale marched outside the women’s center and chanted “no means yes, yes means…,” did posters suggest that rape was a widespread problem at Yale? (No.) When frat boys at Chicago decided to spruce up their lawnmowing by wearing sombreros and playing Latin music, did the Chicago student body receive a blanket condemnation? (Again, no. Some even claimed it wasn’t offensive.) When Tufts students wrote the “O come all ye black folk” carol or frat boys at Hopkins held a “party in the Hood,” were the student bodies widely condemned? (Once more: no.) In fact, this thread has already gone on for nearly twice the length of the threads discussing any of those incidents and is still going strong. </p>
<p>Duke is a university that most love to hate, and whereas incidents at other colleges like those I outlined above are dismissed as aberrations, incidents at Duke are eagerly snatched up and cackled over, as people rejoice in confirmation that Duke students are indeed the arrogant miscreants they’ve always believed them to be.</p>
<p>In truth, Duke is much like most any other top university. It’s a diverse university of 6500 people, each of whom brings different backgrounds, interests, and talents to the table. The Asian population at Duke has traditionally hovered around 1/4 of the student body and is steadily creeping toward the 1/3 mark (the current freshman class is 28% Asian-American). There is not a single student at Duke who hasn’t had Asian roommates, friends, romantic partners, teammates, classmates…students mix and interact at all levels, and I think it’s one of the very best places to do so. While at Duke I interacted with people of all kinds - male, female, black, white, Latino/a, gay, straight, Christian, atheist, poor, wealthy…it was a wonderfully accepting place, and I grew and was challenged in ways I never would’ve thought possible. Arrogance? Far from it. There is nothing like being surrounded by 6500 other people every bit as smart as you, if not smarter, to crush any sense of arrogance, and there are few students indeed with intact arrogance after their first semester. </p>
<p>Yes, Duke has some bad apples, but they are far from the norm. For every KSig, you have several dozen Paul Farmers - talented, intelligent, caring individuals working to make the world a better place. Even if you rounded up all of Duke’s controversial individuals, they are a drop in the bucket relative to the student body. While I am both embarrassed and disgusted by the party invitation and the people behind it, I remain immensely proud of my alma mater.</p>
<p>I have posted on these forums for many years and have always made an effort to remain objective and helpful to others. I typically avoid the many frays into which Duke is dragged, as they never reflect well on anyone. I am increasingly tired of the abuse my alma mater receives from posters, however, many of whom have never been within 200 miles of the campus. One can only turn the other cheek so many times, and I have thought quite strongly about quitting CC over the issue. It would not be a huge loss - I receive nothing of value from this site and stick around only to pass on what I’ve managed to learn.</p>
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<p>[Duke</a> Chants ?How?s Your Grandmother?? to NC State?s Tyler Lewis | Overtime with Dan Soden](<a href=“http://sportsrantz.com/dansoden/2013/02/08/duke-chants-hows-your-grandmother-to-nc-states-tyler-lewis/?fb_action_ids=3779785073592&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map={“3779785073592”%3A335751093209470}&action_type_map={“3779785073592”%3A"og.likes"}&action_ref_map=[]]Duke”>http://sportsrantz.com/dansoden/2013/02/08/duke-chants-hows-your-grandmother-to-nc-states-tyler-lewis/?fb_action_ids=3779785073592&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map={“3779785073592”%3A335751093209470}&action_type_map={“3779785073592”%3A"og.likes"}&action_ref_map=[])</p>
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<p>Why do you suppose that is? Why do you suppose Duke is more polarizing than most of its academic peers? As with every stereotype, there is a kernel of truth behind it.</p>
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<p>Actually, if Duke’s bylaws and policies which students agreed to as a condition of matriculation do include such offensive rude behaviors under the “violation of community standard rules” they have, they would actually have the right to penalize students for such speech/actions…including possible expulsion for worst cases. Many such lawsuits tend to get quashed very early on from what I’ve seen and heard from experienced lawyers. </p>
<p>Since Duke’s not a public university and thus, not an effective arm of the government, they aren’t held as strictly to constitutional standards as their public university counterparts like UNC-CH or NCState. </p>
<p>Any student at a private university disciplined for violating community standards who tries to bring a suit on first amendment grounds, the student would actually have to show that they were not covered under specific college bylaws/policies which private colleges are within their rights to impose or that those policies are applied arbitrarily to them. </p>
<p>And if the student/lawyer argues that those bylaws/policies are unfair, many judges are likely to reply that: If you don’t like it, you have the right to exercise your right to transfer to 3000+ other colleges…especially public colleges to choose from."</p>
<p>Well, I’ve finally waded through all of the posts. </p>
<p>How does one stop this kind of thing?</p>
<p>Integration.</p>
<p>My son’s fraternity at Dartmouth had members of just about all ethnic/racial/religious groups: black, white, East Indian, Asian (meaning Chinese/Korean/Japanese et al), Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Christians, atheists, and so forth. If anyone had the dumb idea of having a party with a potentially offensive ethnic theme, one or more of the brothers would undoubtedly have let them know that it was a bad idea.</p>