Duke U. professor removed over “speak English” comment. “Racist”? Insensitive/Tone deaf? Thoughts?

For decades Chinese, Hispanics, Japanese, Italians, Africans, etc. were all stereotyped in the worse possible way. Look at how Chinese are represented in Breakfast at Tiffany’s, a “classic”. It goes on over the years, “Long Duk Dong” anybody? People are now surprised that all of these minorities “are so sensitiveness”, “they have no sense of humor”, “outrage culture”.

Our high school had a number of cases of antisemitic and racist graffiti and such recently. At a rally to deal with it, a local rabbi said something that all of you people who have never been an oppressed religious of racial minority should think about. He said that, for people with a long history of oppression, this sort of activity brings on the feeling of “oh God, not again”. For anybody with that history, every time something like this happens you never know whether this is an isolated occurrence or the beginning of a new wave of oppression. As a Jew, I grew up with the history of Jewish communities settling, enjoying a generation, or even a few generations, of life without oppression, which invariably ends when some fanatic religious of otherwise Antisemitic ruler or ruling party rises, and the Jews lose everything. It happened with the Crusades, with the Reconquista, with the dismantling of the Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth, with the Dreyfuss case, and with the rise of the Nazis in Germany, to name a few more well-known cases.

Every time that something like this pops up, there is that thought “Oh no, not again”. For people of the majority, it seems like nothing, since it is nothing, for them, because they don’t really remember all the stereotypes, all the discrimination, all the little and large acts of bigotry. For the minority targeted by it, it’s not an isolated little event, it’s tied directly to a long history. So stop thinking that “If I was Asian, I wouldn’t be offended by this”, because you have absolutely no idea what your thought processes would be if you were, in fact, Asian.

The reason that universities, corporations. etc. are required to take somewhat extreme actions is to demonstrate that they are not reverting to the way they were a decade or so earlier.

Now, regarding this case. I’m on the wall. If this is merely the professor actually reporting what she heard, removing her is an overreaction. As some have said, it’s “shooting the messenger”, since it was the other faculty members who were actually racist, and she was trying to be “helpful”, albeit in a heavy-handed and tone deaf manner. On the other hand, if she had already posted something similar, and if there is an indication that she has a tendency to invent other people and attribute her own attitudes and complaints to them, that is different.

As for the latter, anybody who ever taught college students has had the experience of some entitled lazy kid who doesn’t like something, finds something difficult, etc., coming and saying “WE think that your homework is unfair”, “THE STUDENTS think that your instructions were unclear”, etc. So it’s not all that uncommon.

This is bogus and also racist: The students speaking Chinese “were being so impolite as to have a conversation that not everyone on the floor could understand.” As described, these were private conversations between friends. Now, maybe the students were speaking loudly (although probably a conversation in a foreign language sounds louder than the same conversation at the same decibel level in English), but people in a private conversation have no obligation to allow other people to eavesdrop.

I don’t know how many of you have read Michelle Obama’s new book, but in it she describes how she experienced being a Princeton student at a time when Princeton was overwhelmingly white and male. She ended up spending a lot of time with her black friends, because “It takes energy to be the only black person in a lecture hall or one of a few nonwhite people trying out for a play… It requires effort, an extra level of confidence, to speak in those settings and own your presence in the room.” She found it relaxing to hang out with people in situations where she didn’t have to put forward that extra level of effort. The same thing is even more true among students who aren’t native speakers of English. It’s both harsh and counterproductive to ban students from taking a rest by speaking their native language in private conversations.

I think it is very appropriate that this still-employed professor resigned her leadership position after her obvious failure of leadership and insensitivity. If the issue was talking too loudly so as to disturb others, then the email should have been a reminder to all students to keep their voices down. If indeed there were complaints from professors about the speaking in Chinese — along with their supposed desire to get the pictures of the students so as to be able to blackball them for future internships or master’s projects … then part of the program director’s responsibilities would have been to set those professors straight.

It’s hard for me to believe that the issue truly was a matter of talking too loudly so as to disturb others – given the implicit threat of writing down names to “remember them if the students ever interviewed for an internship or asked to work with them for a masters project”. Also, the complaint wasn’t framed as being disturbed, but as " being so impolite as to have a conversation that not everyone on the floor could understand." In other words, as the email was framed, what perturbed the professors was that they were unable to eavesdrop on the conversation, not that the noise bothered them.

But again, in any case, the program director could have simply told the professors that students had the right to communicate in any languages they chose outside of the classroom, and that it would be inappropriate for professors to record their names with the intent of denying those students opportunities in the future.

I’d also just point out that if students are attending a program where instruction is in a language where they are not 100% fluent, then it might be very helpful for those students to discuss class material with other students in their native language so as to clear up any confusion and come to a better understanding of the class material and expectations. Obviously, we have no way of knowing if that is in fact what the students were doing… or how loud their voices really were.

I find it hard to believe that it was the first time professors in a STEM department in a top university heard graduate students speaking in another language.

It’s the last line of the article that concerns me most:

"The student added: “Some of my Chinese friends also told me they are worried that if they support Megan in the public, they might be regarded as ‘people who betrayed their country’ by other Chinese students in the United States.”

Nothing like not being able to publicly defend someone else who is being judged in the realm of public opinion because you’re afraid of reprisals yourself by the same groups.

This was an e-mail which I’m pretty sure wasn’t meant for public reading. My name isn’t on it nor is yours as far as I know. I don’t see any names published as accusers (how convenient these days to hide while accusing others of being a racist and worse. I don’t see any actual checked facts.
I do see a huge over reaction by a scared administration, a petition signed by zealous students looking for the next “racist” in their midst while turning a blind eye to their own faults and lack of consideration for the consequences of their actions.

Speaking too loudly in a common area is a different issue than speaking a foreign language in a common area.

One is always impolite regardless of the language being spoken, while the other adds an air of sophistication & diversity.

Personally, I want people from everywhere to be welcome & to feel welcome in the US. But I also want everyone to be considerate of others regardless of the language being spoken.

P.S. A few years ago, a major network TV news show (20/20 or 60 Minutes) did a lengthy segment on a small Michigan town which had a sizable Muslim population. The issue discussed centered on a loudspeaker system used throughout the city multiple times each day for the call to prayer. While clearly an exercise of Freedom of Religion, it also violated others’ right to not be involved in that religion & affected privacy concerns of others. Lots of issues raised here regarding religion, privacy, culture, immigration & assimilation, among others.

My understanding is that this is the second incident of this kind at Duke in two months.

Last time it involved Larry Moneta – vice president of student affairs at Duke University.

** “Reasons to move to China … NOT!”**

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/12/20/duke-vp-criticized-facebook-post-about-china

It really doesn’t help that US has asked Canada to hold a Chinese executive to try to sabotage Huawei.

This New York Times article explains the situation … https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/26/us/politics/huawei-china-us-5g-technology.html

Generally, if the complaint is restated as “so impolite as to have a conversation that not everyone on the floor could understand” – then loudness is probably not the underlying issue. (Wouldn’t it be equally as “impolite” if a group of students were speaking in English, but too quietly for “everyone on the floor” to hear or understand?).

I’m not sure where the idea that “everyone on the floor” should be privy to private conversations comes from. But that was what was written in the letter.

Chinese isn’t a race, so it’s not obvious why this would be racist.

I am an Asian American. I think it might be shooting the messenger type of reaction. I am more disturbed by the alleged request by two profs who wanted to find out the names of certain students who spoke Chinese loudly. Really? If this is true (I have no reason to believe she is not telling truth), I would be disappointed in Duke. If I were a Chinese student in her class, I would sit down as a group for a chat but not fire her. If we fire every prof for a misguided attempt to help students, there might not be any prof left. I am not crazy about firing people for some mistake. Besides, she needs to earn a living too. We as different people with different experiences need to sit down and talk rather to find out more info rather than fire someone. I hope they can work it out.

One reason that I would never want to be a teacher or prof is, knowing myself, I know I am going to unintentionally say something that would offend some group.

This is not an Asian thing. You missed the point It was addressed to Chinese students.

@websensation - she wasn’t fired. She is still a professor receiving a salary. She just no longer is the director of the program.

And no, I don’t think that is unfair – it was a failure of leadership reflecting poor judgment for her to send that email.

A good leader would have sorted out the noise complaint from the talking-in-Chinese complaint – and would have taken appropriate action. On the noise, a general email to all students in the program reminding them to keep their voices down in the hallway would have been appropriate.

The Chinese-language objections should never have been carried over to an email to students; a wise director would have taken that opportunity as a teachable moment for the staff members who registered the complaints.

I know the email was addressed to Chinese students. I also know what she did was a mistake and not wise. But with all that, I am more for sitting down first and exchanging feelings and hearing explanations. Maybe she will be a better Director due to this experience.

I disclosed I was Asian American to show I do have experiences of being treated as a minority and being discriminated in USA. I am more bothered by what she said about the two Duke profs. I would want to sit down with her to find out what she meant and whether she agreed with the Duke profs. I am just sharing what I would do.

Glad to know she was not fired.

She stepped down from this position. And apparently this is not a new issue, as it prompted a letter from her a year ago https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2019/01/duke-university-china-2018-email-megan-neely-grad-program-director-who-stepped-down-also-sent-email-in-2018-telling-students-to-speak-english.

There seem to be two or three issues— volume of speech, choice of which kitchen/lounge to utilize and the language issue. the letter this year is poorly/insensitively written, and sensitivity training is clearly in order. But there may be a history here of student/faculty departmental issues that have not been adequately addressed. The original article I posted in post#1 has a link to a series of tweets from one student that chronicles, for what its worth, some of the recent history.

As for the analogy to the fear that Jews feel (“here we go again”) with the rise of antisemitism, seems to fall short with me, as apparently there is something these students did (loud conversations in a main kitchen) that prompted a response (a badly chosen response, but a response) from a known faculty member. The jewish students being frightened by antisemitic graffiti and such have done nothing to provoke this, and they do not know who wrote such things. This is very frightening, and very different, IMO.

These were grad students, adults in every culture. If they were offended by the email, are they incapable of going as a group to the author of the email to discuss It? Or to the Dean or other administration official? What was to be gained by tbe quick turn to social media and yes, outrage culture. Really poorly handled by the students, though the prof wasn’t in the right either. I’m amazed anyone would take the job after this. Apparently no one is allowed to make mistakes anymore, so it might be safest for all of us to do and say nothing.

@roycroftmom : If you were the one handling the situation, you would be the first one being fired. This is a PR nightmare for Duke. It is widely reported throughout Asia on front page. The current situation is that "Duke apologizes after professor tells grad students not to speak Chinese at school "(http://www.theeastcarolinian.com/news/article_00f9c26e-22fe-11e9-9bcb-9bcfce039f01.html) Out of 55 graduate students in that department, 36 are Chinese foreign students. About 20% of the faculty/Staff are also Chinese in the department. If the department gets blacklisted, you need to find some Americans who know math to fill the gap. Otherwise, the department is going to wind down. As it stands now, Duke’s name has been tarnished. This is the recovery phase. They have professionals handling this.

@warblersrule Muslims speak a wide variety of languages. Arabic is just one of them. The largest Muslim country is Indonesia, followed by Pakistan (though more Muslims live in India than in Pakistan, surprisingly). Neither country speaks Arabic. In fact, the majority of the Muslim world does not speak Arabic except in prayers.

In addition to the PR nightmare, it’s also a potential legal liability issue. It’s a red flag that says, Duke intentionally discriminates against students because of their national origin. The director did not make things better by pointing to the potential impact on future hiring & selection – rather she made it worse by offering that as a stated reason.

Essentially she wrote in emails – apparently twice – don’t talk Chinese where our faculty can hear you because at our school, we regularly discriminate by reason of national origin (even though such discrimination is patently illegal) See


[QUOTE=""]

https://www.workplacefairness.org/national-origin-discrimination
https://www.workplacefairness.org/language-discrimination

[/QUOTE]

So part of her job as director would be to be aware of federal civil rights laws and how they apply to hiring.

So whether or not the director personally agrees with those sentiments, she should have had the knowledge and judgment to know never, ever to put something like that in writing.

And these days anyone in a position of responsibility should also be well aware that embarrassing emails can and will be cross-posted to social media – that’s just part of the way things work these days.

If this was something done by lower-level employee then I can see it being excused as a “mistake” – but there is a level of responsibility that comes with the position of program director.

I read this thread with a tremendous sense of relief - this is a much more thoughtful discussion of a complicated situation than what is reflected in the comments to the original article, which are, for the most part, just vicious and reactive.

And that is my point. It is possible to have a productive discussion about this, and it did not need to involve social media. Yes, it is PR problem now, because of how adults handled it-there will likely be less communication between professors and students now than in the past. Talking directly to each other about problems isn’t occurring there, apparently. Duke will certainly weather this, and next week another outrage somewhere will splash over social media instead.