Duke V Chicago

Colleges and Universities A-Z Duke University
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<p>So, I've already posted this on the college search and chicago forums, but I'm interested in what people more knowledgable about duke itself have to say. Because I'm having a really hard time making this decision.</p>

<p>Yes, I know there are lots of these threads, but I'm curious as to what people think with my particular situation. I know these schools are worlds apart, but I'm having a hard time because I think academically Duke might be better for me while atmosphere wise, I might like Chicago more. </p>

<p>CHICAGO:
Okay, so I am nerdy/quirky and willing to show it if people are willing to accept it, but I have a few problems with Chicago. I want to go premed and do an econ major. First of all, premed at chicago kind of sucks because of the major grade deflation that goes on there. While GPA doesn't matter for grad school, it does matter a LOT for med school. So I think I would find myself stressing a whole lot about my grades all the time, and that would be really depressing. Also, I don't really like Chicago weather--depressing depressing depressing. Plus, the dorms aren't the nicest. Duke has way nicer dorms.
Also, since I want to major in an unrelated field, I'd have no free spaces in my schedule to explore because of the core. And while Chicago economics is world renowned, it is also really theoretical, and not as practical as say, Duke's economics program. </p>

<p>But, when I visted the school, I liked it a lot. I sat in on some classes and they were really amazing. Even though I'm going premed/econ, I LOVE the humanities, and I really want a liberal arts education because it really stimulates me intellectually. The classes I sat in on were really interactive and small/discussion based. The teacher basically kept asking the students questions and questions until they reached the point he was trying to make on their own. Going to Chicago would really satisfy me intellectually and teach my mind how to think in a whole new way. </p>

<p>DUKE:
Duke has a great premed program, no core, and a more practical econ program. The grading is considerably less tough, so while I would still have to work hard to get good grades, I think it would be possible. Also, Duke's in the Research Triangle which means amazing research opportunities and internships. (Well, theoretically)</p>

<p>But, I don't know about the atmosphere---it's kind of preppy, and it's kind of a party school from what I hear. And I'm not preppy at all, nor do I wish to party. Don't get me wrong, I want to have fun and hang out with people, just not party in the traditional college sense. Also, the sports scene is HUGE and I'm not into sports. Whereas the Chicago atmosphere is more nerdy, intellectual, and more me, over all.
But on the other hand, the weather is better, and the dorms are much nicer. (As weird as this sounds, these things actually matter to me, lol). Also, the school as a whole might contain a happier student body because the work load is less intense (Chicago has a quarter system which makes everything so much more fast paced) and the general unity with the school spirit. (Chicago has little school spirit in a traditional sense.</p>

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<p>ps. I’m leaning towards duke right now :)</p>

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<p>I’ve heard horror stories about chicago, partly because of grade deflation for premed, etc. A friend of mine was set to go to chicago till he visited and told me it was the most depressing place he’s ever been (his student guide wanted to intentionally fail her arabic class to her mom would let her transfer out). Also, its in the bad part of the city, and can get really sketchy at times.</p>

<p>I’m headed to Duke next year, and I feel personality-wise, I’m a lot like you. I’m nerdy/quirky, and not that into sports or partying, so in that respect, I’m a bit concerned about the social scene at Duke. But for premed, Duke is definitely the place to be. And I think sometimes social stereotypes at certain schools can go too far… there are different types of personalities at every school, and wherever you go, I’m sure you’ll find a group that you’ll fit into. =)</p>

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<p>I agree that the stereotypes are extreme. All fun does NOT die at Chicago, and Duke students aren’t all partying fraternity guys. But they are very different places with different vibes for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with those stereotypes. I have a nephew at Chicago and a son at Duke.</p>

<p>I hope you get the feedback you need from these boards.</p>

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<p>Duke all the way!!!</p>

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<p>My friends in the UK and in the Far East have never heard of Duke. They thought it is some princeling. Whereas, UChicago is a world class institution especially their biology and economic program.</p>

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<p>^really!??!?!</p>

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<p>Ok, so my choice last year came down to Duke and UChicago, so I understand where you are coming from. However, they are TOTALLY different schools with TOTALLY different personalities.</p>

<p>DUKE:
-Accomplishment focused: are you a person who is about the grade, the award, the goal?
Duke focuses on people who are about getting the job done, and done well.
-Community: are you a person who wants a tight knit school where everyone knows each other?
Duke has a strong communal feel where most people know 90% of their dorm and a ton of kids in their class.
-Campus: do you want to live on a beautiful, rural campus?
Duke has students housed on campus for three years, in one of the most beautiful campuses in the country. The gardens are unbelievably nice.
-PreProfessional: do you plan on going into law, business, or medicine?
Duke turns out incredible numbers for each field, as kids are focused more on a job after school then life as a professor. Top 5 Wall-Street feeder school.
-Frat Scene: are you a person who likes the idea of brotherhood/sisterhood and partying?
Duke has a strong frat scene in which most students seem to take part in one way or another. Joining a frat or SLG (kind of a co-ed frat concept but less preppy. More of a social club) is a major part of Duke life.
-Sports Fanatic: do you like sports, going to games, having a school spirit that incorporates athletic competition?
Duke has a strong athletic program in nearly every arena, obviously noteworthy in basketball. If you want to cheer for your school, Duke is the best place for you.
-Weather: do you want a warm to moderate climate?
Duke has warmer summers and mild winters, with most of the school year in incredibly nice weather.</p>

<p>CHICAGO:
-Pursuit of Knowledge focused: are you a person who strives to learn more, even outside of the class?
Chicago focuses on people who like to think about topics, ponder over them in their spare time.
-Community: are you a person who likes to be more individualistic?
Chicago has more of an individual feel to it, as people become close with those in their dorm more than the entire student body.
-Campus: do you want to live in a city campus?
Chicago is in the outskirts of a major city. It’s more condensed in terms of academic buildings, yet the dorms are a few blocks away from campus.
-PreProfessor: do you plan on teaching?
Chicago turns out a ton of professors. More then 10% of the class with ultimately go for a PhD.
-City Scene: are you a person who likes to explore the city and party at clubs as opposed to with your fellow students?
Chicago nightlife involves a bus ride to down town to party, not really staying on campus.
-Sports Hater or Participator : do you detest sports and prefer school instead? OR are you not a Division 1 caliber athlete and want to compete D3?
Chicago as a student body loathes sports. They tore down some tennis courts last year to put in another library. However, if you are a decent athlete and want to do D3 at Chicago instead of club sports at Duke, it may be important.
-Weather: do you want a freezing cold winter?
Chicago dips down to 0 degree temperature, sub-0 with wind chill. Was told by the kid I was staying with that it got to sub-30 windchill his freshman year. </p>

<p>I would go through those questions if you want to find the school for you. I hope it is helpful. That is about the same process I went through when I chose a school. Only factor for me that favored Chicago was the D3 sports, as I kind of wanted to run at the NCAA level, but everything else just fit me better at Duke. If you are more in the Chicago frame, great! You have the perfect school for you. If you are in the Duke frame, great! You have also found the school for you.</p>

<p>Wish you the best of luck and am pulling for Duke. Btw, comment above about academic prestige is bull. Duke is widely regarded as a phenomenal school. I would concede that Chicago is better internationally, but domestically Duke is definitely stronger. And unless you plan on living outside of the country, international doesn’t really matter.</p>

<p>Last thing: when I went to Chicago, everyone smoked cigarettes. Idk why but I thought it was weird. I was thinking the stress level? Not to sound biased, I just noticed it and wondered if it was a city thing or what.</p>

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<p>IF it matters (and this may be kinda a superficial point), I thought the “university of chicago” was yet another mediocre state school until my senior year. lawl. =/</p>

<p>And if recognition is a factor, imo, Duke is much more well known in the country (not sure about internationally). For econ, uChicago might be better, but for premed, Duke is definitely on a whole new level.</p>

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<p>I work for a Chinese-affiliated company. This is a VERY small sample, but the pres and the VP of our Chinese affiliate knew Duke (“excellent school!”) when I was asked about our son (I do not know what they think/know about U Chicago).</p>

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<p>the the OP: as much as i absolutely cannot understand how you can say you want to go to school and “never party” even right now, i think you should rethink that concept. youve been living under your (probably strict) parents your entire life. just because right now you see partying as a bad thing doesnt mean you always will. college is supposed to be fun and from what ive hear uchicago is absolutely not. duke is better for pre-professional placement (premed in your specific case). idk, to me is seems like and easy choice.</p>

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<p>oh and i also would have considered “university of chicago” a state school before my senior yeah hahah</p>

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<p>In UChicago’s defense, almost anyone who has read about Latin American history knows about UChicago’s economics. Anyone who glances at each year’s list of Nobel Prize winners each year knows UChicago.</p>

<p>Mermaid, I have a good friend at UChicago and she seems happy enough there. Still, I had the decision between Duke and UChicago and I chose Duke. Why? Everyone I talked to about UChicago–even the alumnus who interviewed me–seem to give me the impression that the school (administration, faculty) was more focused on its graduate programs than on its undergraduate school. While I can’t tell you if that’s actually true, I can tell you that at Duke, it’s reversed. All professors here really care about teaching and it shows. If you ever have to meet with them for a class assignment, they happily take time out from their research to help you. I’m in neuroscience, and I think every neuroscience lab here at Duke has undergraduates working in it. My friend wasn’t sure what classes to take next fall, so she met with her professor from last semester to talk about it. The professor is the director of his institute/department and he only teaches one undergraduate class per semester. But the important thing was that he used to be a student just like any of us, and he was more than happy to help her.</p>

<p>A big selling point of UChicago is the prestige of its faculty. However, be aware that often the most renowned faculty spend the least time teaching. That’s true at both UChicago and at Duke. Example: [Steven</a> D. Levitt - Teaching](<a href=“http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Teaching.html]Steven”>Steven D. Levitt - Teaching). The ones who do teach only teach the higher-level courses. For what it’s worth, though, at Duke, there’s a Focus program that is designed to have top faculty (directors, big authors, etc.) teaching freshman seminar classes. If you do end up coming to Duke, I definitely recommend this program. It appears as though you’d be the kind of student who would love seminar-type classes, so consider Focus when you consider Duke: [Duke</a> University | Trinity College of Arts & Sciences : About Focus](<a href=“http://trinity.duke.edu/focus-program/about-focus]Duke”>http://trinity.duke.edu/focus-program/about-focus)</p>

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<p>No disrespect intended–really. But I doubt that a prospective student is as concerned about the knowledge/awareness evidenced by HS seniors than the OP is asking about the perception of grad schools, prospective employers, etc.</p>

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<p>No, I absolutely agree that what HS seniors know doesnt matter lol i was just adding that i didnt know uchicago either. however…i still think duke is better (at least for me) in almost every conceivable way.</p>

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<p>^^^got it! And our son, graduating from Duke in May, thought it was the right place for him. (feel free to PM)</p>

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<p>Wow, thanks to everyone for the feedback! It’s really helping a lot in my decision. And andy_college09, thanks for the list of characteristics. I think I had something like that going on vaguely in my head, but you definitely helped hammer out the personality differences between the schools. </p>

<p>I understand that Duke is quite prestigious, and the UChicago is too, but at this point, I don’t think the difference between the two is very important. I think the main reason I originally was leaning towards Duke was the greater strength of the premed program. </p>

<p>Knat, thanks for the link to the focus program! I was looking at the website for it, and it definitely seems like something I’d be interested in. In fact, it seems like almost a UChicago sub-culture within Duke that’s more normal than Chicago, haha! But I had a few more questions about FOCUS. Do you have to apply to into it and how competitive is it? Would it be a bad combination with premed because of the work load?</p>

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<p>

Yeah, you do have to apply for it. However, the application is more geared towards matching your interests with the right FOCUS program. It doesn’t ask you “why are you qualified?” but rather, “why are you interested in X topic?” Overall, it’s not selective at all–no one gets rejected from the FOCUS program itself. However, certain “clusters” (FOCUS programs) are more popular than others, but each cluster can only accommodate a certain number of students (~30 I think?). Therefore, since the application asks you to list your top 2 choices (or 3? I don’t remember), some students are placed into their 2nd choices. While the coordinators tell you that you “have” to accept your cluster assignment, that’s not true in practice–it’s easy to drop the program when this happens. Not being assigned to your first choice is rare, though; I’ve only met one person whom this happened to.</p>

<p>

A major complaint about the Focus program has always been about its work load. All FOCUS classes require a bit of reading and writing (in my personal experience, ~15 pages/class + a 2-3 page paper every week, per class). 15 pages probably doesn’t sound like much for every 2-3 days, but for someone who isn’t interested in the topic, it can feel burdensome. It doesn’t <em>take</em> a lot of time, but it can feel like it if you’re bored. The main thing is to make sure you’re passionate in the FOCUS cluster’s topic.</p>

<p>This is necessary by nature of the FOCUS program. Its goal revolves around studying key primary sources with top faculty in the respective fields, and then discussing them. Thus, in many cases, you won’t have the luxury of a textbook that condenses and simplifies all the documents for you. In classes, the teacher doesn’t stand there and lecture; you discuss the reading. You have meaningful conversations. But if you’re interested in the kind of seminar-type learning that the Focus class (which I was), then you’ll love this style of learning.</p>

<p>Okay, sorry–got a little bit off-track there. I was in the Neuroscience (“Exploring the Mind”) cluster, so many (most, actually) of my classmates were premed. They didn’t seem to have any more work than usual premeds. Out of the 8 classes I’ve taken at Duke so far, my Focus classes have been about average in terms of work load and time consumption. (As a related side-note, people often complain about Writing 20’s work load as well, but I think my W20 was the lightest class I’ve taken so far). So yes, premed and FOCUS are very compatible.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>

All Trinity freshmen are required to take a first year seminar and Writing 20. FOCUS includes two seminars, so it is virtually the same as a regular schedule except an extra seminar. Subtracting the two seminars and W20, you still have 5 courses left over for freshman electives. </p>

<p>FOCUS used to include Writing 20 as part of the package; I see that is no longer the case. I suppose it’s an attempt to make it more flexible and appealing, but I don’t see much point in watering it down like that.</p>

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<p>Even outside of the FOCUS Program, you are encouraged to engage in interdisciplinary education. Duke IS a liberal arts school so you are very much encouraged to take classes outside your major. In regards to the academic aspect, you’ll find that you will be intellectually stimulated in and out of class via discussion with your peers and interactions with professors and researchers. Never fear there.
If it’s the social scene you’re worried about, don’t. Like you I’m not a partier so I was a little leery about the reputation that Duke has for parties. After all, work hard, party hard. However, there is so much more to do here besides to go parties on the weekend. There is a huge arts scene, Duke serves as the center for many wonderful artists who come through area. If you’re into music, there is a weekly selection of classical to modern music performances you can attend. So don’t let a reputation deter you from a school, you will find friends who share your taste regardless of where you go. I’m glad I didn’t let I decided on Duke.</p>