<p>I got off the duke waitlist on wednesday, however have submitted my payment to umich. I am not recieving any financial aid from either place. I would like some opinions on which school is better. I plan on majoring in engineering, possibly biomedical engineering. Please, ANY responses would help. I am very stressed.</p>
<p>Duke has the ranking, the weather, the prestige etc. And if you ever change your mind about engineering, liberal arts majors are great at Duke as well. Frankly, if you don't care for the price tag, it's hard to turn down a Duke education. </p>
<p>USNews.com:</a> America's Best Colleges 2008: Biomedical / Biomedical Engineering</p>
<p>Thank you for the info. Any more opinions?</p>
<p>Both are great schools, both will give you a great education. You are going to get many opinions on one being better than the other, based mostly on the poster's personal affiliations/affinities (probably more for Duke based primarily on there just being a lot of vocal Duke supporters on these boards), so while they may give you some reasons to consider in favor of one or the other, their recommendations have to be considered to be one-sided. Take them all with a grain of salt and do your own research on both schools.</p>
<p>Your other consideration is the financial difference. Without any aid, Duke is pushing $50K/year (and will definitely top it during your time there) while Michigan is about $35K or so for OOS and quite a bit less for in-state. You hae to decide whether the differences between the schools tilt one way or the other and if they tilt in Duke's favor, are they worth the extra cost. My own opinion on that is that Duke is not worth the greater cost over Michigan in-state, and maybe only over Michigan OOS if it is no financial hardship to you or your family. If the scales are even or tip toward Michigan, then it is a no-brainer.</p>
<p>Good luck and get ready to get be besieged by the Duke faithful.</p>
<p>Duke and Michigan are peers. If you do well at either, you'll go far in your stated career. Michigan is also top 10 in bio-engineering and more distinguished overall in engineering as a whole than Duke. If you are instate at Michigan, it's silly to attend Duke unless you are in love with it or money is not an issue. The overall prestige is equal in academic circles. I know i'll get grilled here for these statements, but that's the way i see it. A minimum of a $60,000.00 difference after four years would be enough for me to rethink attending Duke over Michigan.</p>
<p>I have done my research and have doing that much is going to be around 42000 for me because I am oos. Duke will be around 48000. I will not be recieving any financial aid so with that new info what does everybody think? Please let me know. All opinions are greatly appreciated. Thanks again.</p>
<p>thanks again everybody. Any other opinions?</p>
<p>From College Board:</p>
<p>Michigan - Fall 2007
In-state tuition & fees $10,447<br>
Out-of-state tuition & fees $31,301<br>
Room & board $8,190
Total $38,491</p>
<p>Duke - Fall 2008
Tuition & fees $37,925<br>
Room & board $10,060<br>
Total $47,985</p>
<p>The Michigan numbers are 2007, so figure a 5% increase to a total of $40,415, so the difference will be $7,500/year. Not as drastic a difference as you would expect from a private vs. public comparo. But Duke is still a notable bit more, especially if you are going to have to make up that difference with loans (or with bigger loans).</p>
<p>The academics are at least comparable, arguably better for what you are interested in at Michigan, so it would come down to all the other factors that, along with the classroom academics, make up your "college education."
If those are worth $30K, then . . . well, you need to figure it out.</p>
<p>One more thing, you might want to post on the Duke and Michigan boards with a link to this thread to give partisans from both the chance to make their pitch.</p>
<p>If you think you might want to get a Masters, you can see if either school has an accelerated/combined Master's program. Technically the tuition situation could change if you could do undergrad and masters in 5 years at one place, instead of doing 4 years undergrad at one place and then 2 years for a masters somewhere else.</p>
<p>Besides that, it depends on how set you are with BME, and which school you prefer more. Duke is more highly regarded in BME than Michigan, but Michigan is more highly regarded in pretty much all other engineering fields. If you're pretty set on BME, Duke would the way to go. If there's a considerable amount of doubt, Michigan is very well rounded in engineering and would be the better way to go. </p>
<p>If you have a strong personal preference for either school, I think the schools are probably close enough where you should pick based on that. It's just going to be harder to do well in school if your life is miserable, and you're always wishing you went somewhere else. I personally have a host of reasons that makes Michigan a better fit for me than Duke, and there's a good chance that not a single one would apply to you.</p>
<p>You are oos for mich so goto duke. Its a private and smaller amounts of people. Makes no sense to me to goto a public than a private when they are both around the same price and the private has supposedly more "prestige".</p>
<p>Have you visited the campuses? They have very different atmospheres and cultures. Go for fit.</p>
<p>A-Card that is a silly argument that i read over and over again in CC. Harvard is the most respected university in the country, but i'd imagine a person who wants to major at a top engineering college would go to another school. How well respected is Duke in overall engineering? There is a good chance that you will not end up in that major, so i feel it is very important to find that out. Other than that i agree with Alexandre, go for fit.</p>
<p>A-Card: Ever consider that maybe having a smaller school is a detriment/a turnoff to people? Harvard, Princeton, MIT are the only small schools that I personally feel are good enough to make it worth the sacrifice of going to a small school. For example, I'm thinking about going to MIT for grad school. If I hypothetically get in there, there's only 3 professors who do what I'm interested in there. One is probably retiring soon. So that leaves two. I still have to compete with other graduate students to get an adviser. Maybe one of them already has a full load of graduate students. Maybe one of them just doesn't want to take new students. Maybe one of them isn't working on anything I'm interested in for a while. Maybe I just don't get along with one of them. Maybe one of them doesn't get along with me. Maybe I don't get along with the very few other people doing the same thing as me. There's a lot that can go wrong, and not many options if they do. At a larger school...you actually have options.</p>
<p>Also, people always talk about endowment per student, but it's not like private schools are ooing out buying each student a Wii. Most sizable expenditures are going to be on things that all students (at least within a certain field) are going to use, be it a building, lab, books for a library, computers etc. Even if the private school may have more money per student, the big public school can still have more money to provide quality resources for its students. To make an analogy, which house is going to be able to afford a better big screen tv: a small apartment with two guys pitching in $350 each, or a big house with 5 guys pitching in $200 each?</p>
<p>Think of it this way. Taken as a whole, do you consider U North Carolina and Duke as peers? If so, then U Michigan is too, albeit with about 50% more undergrads than U North Carolina (not to mention 4x as many as at Duke). </p>
<p>I personally do not consider U North Carolina and Duke to be peer institutions and I think that the vast majority of students who have the opportunity to choose between them will choose Duke. Having said that, U North Carolina is still an excellent state university and there definitely is a subset of students at U North Carolina who are as capable and will go on to similar postgraduate options. The same would be true for U Michigan. </p>
<p>Based on the objective data, this is not a close comparison between Duke and U Michigan. Duke wins in nearly every category and usually by a large margin.</p>
<p>O B J E C T I V E D A T A </p>
<p>UNDERGRADUATE ENROLLMENT<br>
Duke 6330 U Michigan 26,083</p>
<p>% AND # OF STUDENTS WHO ARE IN-STATE<br>
Duke 15% (950) U Michigan 68% (17,736)</p>
<p>% OF FEMALE STUDENTS<br>
Duke 49% U Michigan 52%</p>
<p>% OF WHITE/NON-HISPANIC STUDENTS<br>
Duke 52% U Michigan 66%</p>
<p>% FROM PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS<br>
Duke 65% U Michigan 80%</p>
<p>% OF STUDENTS IN GREEK LIFE (Male & Female)<br>
Duke 29%/42% U Michigan 16%/15%</p>
<p>TOP MAJORS AT EACH SCHOOL (acc to collegeboard.com)<br>
Duke 34% Social Sciences, 15% Engineering, 10% Security & Protective Services, 9% Psychology, 7% Biology, 5% English<br>
U Michigan 17% Engineering, 16% Social Sciences, 8% Psychology, 6% Arts, 6% Biology, 6% Business/Marketing, 6% English, </p>
<p>IS & OOS COST (Tuition & Fees)<br>
Duke $35,756 U Michigan $10,341
Duke $35,756 U Michigan $30,154 </p>
<p>TOTAL COLLEGE ENDOWMENT AND PER CAPITA (undergrad and grad)<br>
Duke $5.91 bn ($506,017) U Michigan $7.09 bn ($172,746)</p>
<p>AVERAGE HIGH/LOW IN FEBRUARY<br>
Duke 54-30 U Michigan 34/19</p>
<p>GRADUATION RATES<br>
-% OF STUDENTS EXPECTED TO GRADUATE IN 6 YEARS:<br>
Duke 94% U Michigan 83%
-% OF STUDENTS WHO DO GRADUATE IN 6 YEARS:<br>
Duke 94% U Michigan 87%
-% OF STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE IN 4 YEARS:<br>
Duke 87% U Michigan 70%
FRESHMAN RETENTION RATE<br>
Duke 97% U Michigan 96%
USNWR GRADUATION & RETENTION RANK:<br>
Duke 9th U Michigan 26th</p>
<p>FACULTY RESOURCES<br>
-% OF CLASSES WITH <20 STUDENTS<br>
Duke 73% U Michigan 45%
-% OF CLASSES WITH 50+ STUDENTS<br>
Duke 6% U Michigan 17%
-FACULTY/STUDENT RATIO<br>
Duke 8/1 U Michigan 15/1
USNWR FACULTY RESOURCES RANK<br>
Duke 3rd U Michigan 69th</p>
<p>STUDENT SELECTIVITY<br>
-% ACCEPTANCE RATE<br>
Duke 23% U Michigan 50%
-SAT/ACT RANGE (Middle 50%)<br>
Duke 1350-1540 U Michigan 1210-1420
-% OF STUDENTS RANKING IN TOP 10% IN HS CLASS<br>
Duke 89% U Michigan 90%
% OF STUDENTS WITH HS GPA > 3.75 (Unweighted)<br>
Duke na U Michigan na</p>
<h1>OF NMS FINALISTS IN 2007 (% of student body)</h1>
<pre><code>Duke 90 (5.7%) U Michigan 62 (1.0%)
</code></pre>
<p>% OF STUDENTS SCORING 700+ ON SAT CRITICAL READING<br>
Duke 63% U Michigan 23%
% OF STUDENTS SCORING 700+ ON SAT MATH<br>
Duke 68% U Michigan 43%
% OF STUDENTS SCORING 30+ ON ACT<br>
Duke 61% U Michigan 43%
USNWR SELECTIVITY RANK<br>
Duke 12th U Michigan 23rd</p>
<p>USNWR FINANCIAL RESOURCES RANK<br>
Duke 14th U Michigan 29th</p>
<p>ALUMNI GIVING %<br>
Duke 52% U Michigan 17%
USNWR ALUMNI GIVING RANK<br>
Duke 2nd U Michigan 83rd</p>
<p>S U B J E C T I V E D A T A </p>
<p>PEER ASSESSMENT<br>
Duke 4.4 U Michigan 4.5</p>
<p>if you are in-state for UMich, I recommend that u go to Umich. If not, and the cost of attending both schools are similar, then I would recommend that you go to Duke. But, both schools are excellent, and you should definitely choose based on your preferences for either school's location, campus, student body, weather, price, or other subjective variables.</p>
<p>That's fine hawkette. Then i guess i don't consider UNC and Michigan peers either. Michigan and Duke are peers, wether you like it or not. Furthermore, Michigan is flat out better overall in engineering than Duke. There, i said it. The rest of your nonsense is a bunch of hyperbole. Duke wins in almost every category that YOU state. The only one you fail to mention is that they are NOT a better engineering school. I have to say it, and I'm sure I'll get backed up by others, that you are very pompous and really should not be paid much attention too. Your wonderful statistics are always slanted towards private colleges and may give young impressionable minds the idea that you really know what you're talking about. I only hope that you are not in a position where you hire candidates for careers. It would really be scary if you were.</p>
<p>Only HYPS and MIT are truly more prestigious and "better" than all other schools. Not every program is of course, but overall they are decidedly the best we have in this country. As far as I'm concerned the next twenty schools posted in the usnwr are all peers in general.</p>
<p>rjko,
Many thanks for your personal attacks. Your post is a perfect example of when the data is against you, attack the messenger.</p>
<p>As for the data that I have presented, this is provided by USNWR as well as by the Common Data Sets of the respective colleges. If you feel that they are slanted, then I suggest you take it up with them. </p>
<p>If you think it would be helpful to post data that you feel would support your argument, I would suggest that this is a far more effective and helpful use of your time than attacking me.</p>
<p>You post data that only proves your elitist points. That is what i call slanted. You even put the PA rating on the bottom. You know the one that says Michigan had a 4.5 rating and Duke has a 4.4 rating. They are peers. Sorry to burst your superior bubble. Also, why don't you post the ug usnwr ratings of the CoE at Michigan's and at Duke. We both know why you won't.</p>
<p>You mean the data that you represent? The data that shows how you accidently slip in that the PA of Michigan is actually a tad higher than Duke's. Why don't you check out the USNWR statistics on the overall engineering programs at the two schools. Actually, i know you have, it's just not convenient to mention them here because "the data will be against you." I have to send a "personal attack" your way because there are young 17-18 year olds with impressionable minds reading these threads. They might get the idea that you know what you're talking about. For you to imply that Duke is way better than Michigan is a flat out lie and needs to be exposed.</p>