<p>So this is a really difficult decision for me. The accelerated med program (sophie davis), allows me to become a doctor in 7 years and pay CUNY tuition each year for 5 years (CUNY tuition is roughly 3000 a year for me but with an apartment the price will be around 15k overall). The problem is that through this program I am forced to do primary care for 2 years in an underprivileged area which I do not want to do (I can get around the primary care aspect by paying 75,000). Another problem is that I know I won't be happy there since there is barely a social/party scene like there is in Duke. The thing is that it is a guaranteed ride into A medical school (although the medical schools listed aren't so amazing-NYU is the best one there). In the future, they will get accreditation to become there own medical school so Im not sure how good a CUNY MD degree will be especially the first year of the program. </p>
<p>Duke on the other hand is absolutely amazing but Im not sure how difficult it will be to get a 3.7+ GPA to get into a top med school. Also, Duke social/party scene and vibrant campus assures me that I will be happy there. If it helps, I plan on begin a physics major at Duke.</p>
<p>Basically do I take the guaranteed ride to an OK med school or take my chances to go to Duke to get into a very good med school.</p>
<p>I want to say two things. First, the Sophie Davis program is an incredible experience, but it’s one in which the service ageement is a defining aspect of their program. The program is designed to create socially conscious doctors who fill a desperately needed gap in New York State and defines their mission and curriculumn. I would suspect that many of your peers in that program will be similarly oriented as well, and would encourage you not to go through the program if, for whatever reason, you don’t believe in it. Don’t have the program ‘waste’ a spot on you–and that’s honestly what I feel it would be like-- if you don’t believe in their stated mission of producing minority PCPs in a broken healthcare system that needs one.</p>
<p>Insofar as pre-heath at Duke, there’s some information here. Most first-years, like they note, end up not choosing the pre-heath route, either because they discover they don’t like it, or that the science classes (like Orgo) that are a necessary part of pre-heath curricula. Information on pre-health is here: <a href=“http://prehealth.duke.edu/prospectivestudents/”>http://prehealth.duke.edu/prospectivestudents/</a>. </p>
<p>The truth is that about half the students go through the program without ever intending to do primary care so that does not really factor in my consideration of the program</p>
<p>If somebody is truly 100% dedicated to being a doctor, I personally recommend the guaranteed med school admissions programs over anything else typically. Having said that, some of these “guaranteed” programs require a hard-to-reach GPA threshold (like 3.7 at WashU, I believe), but I don’t know the specifics of the Sophie Davis program. The other caveat is that you may be sacrificing a more “traditional college experience,” so you need to be aware of that. </p>
<p>On top of that, many college students like to keep their options open as to what they really want to study (and opinions evolve over time) and they are able to learn about themselves throughout the process - whereas in a program like this, you’re basically locking yourself in. As an 18-year-old myself, I never could have done that (particularly to something like medicine where high schoolers typically have VERY little real exposure to), but others seem to be okay with that commitment.</p>
<p>In summary, you might have a more enjoyable experience at a school like Duke with a broad-based liberal arts education that gives you the opportunity to pursue a variety of interests, but (even though Duke certainly prepares its students very well for med school and admissions statistics are strong) there’s no guarantee that you’ll get into a solid med school at the end of it and it will end up costing a lot more. So, if you’re willing to sacrifice experience for the ultimate goal of being guaranteed to be a doctor, then the Sophie Davis program seems like a fine choice. If you want to challenge yourself in a variety of ways and keep your option open through a more traditional college experience a curriculum, then Duke is also a great choice. For fun/experience/individual growth, Duke may be a better fit whereas to achieve ultimate career goals, Sophie Davis may be better since it’s basically guaranteed (assuming no hard GPA requirements). It’s really a personal decision and anonymous posters on the internet are not going to be able to tell you which one is “better.” (All this with the caveat that I’m not familiar with the details of this particular program.)</p>
<p>Interesting point. The thing is I am certain I want to become a doctor to the point that I have never changed my mind since I was 5. I’m also fairly certain that I won’t be persuaded to not become a doctor in college. Any other opinions?</p>
<p>Be very careful; not many secondary school student are sure – although they may sincerely believe are – what career path(s) they will follow. For example, MANY undergraduates in fine institutions change their majors several times. Therefore, locking one’s self into a career of medical practice at age (probably) seventeen and before experiencing the intellectual diversity and growth that is at the core of the college experience, has very real risks.</p>
<p>Speaking from the perspective of someone down the road (a current MD/PhD student) I’d say it really doesn’t sound like the guaranteed med program is that great of a fit for you. The thing is, despite what people say, getting into med school isn’t terribly difficult. The admission rate in any one year is something like 44%. And getting into a top medical school really does not mean much if all you want to do is become a doctor. As the parlance goes P=MD. As long as you pass everything, everyone comes out the other end with an MD and when you finish your residency and fellowship, no one is going to give jack about which school you got your degree from. So as much as I loathe to say it knowing that I was once in your shoes with the same thoughts but those notions of school, degree, etc are naive at best. Go with what’s in front of you and pick something that you’ll enjoy for the amount of time you’ll be doing it. Again I say all of this coming from the perspective of someone who’s been there, done that, and am currently in med school and in a long duration program (MD/PhD = 8 years), you don’t really want to be miserable. </p>
<p>There is one caveat, and that is if you are gunning for a competitive specialty like ROAD or plastics/ortho. Coming from a program with great reputation may give you a minor leg up. But you’d still need a high USMLE+AOA which is by no means a guarantee. </p>
<p>@SBR did you attend Duke Undergrad for pre-med? How terribly difficult did you feel getting a 3.7+ GPA was? (assuming you achieved something close to that since your in Duke Med) It becomes scary knowing that classes are often curved to B’s or a B- when there are tons of brilliant students in class with me. Your thoughts?</p>
<p>You shouldn’t be afraid of competition. Most core classes in majors are curved to a B, I think some intro calc courses are curved to a B-/C+ but most electives are relatively easy to obtain an A or A-. Freshman seminar and Writing 101 are easy if you pick an easy one, so those are two easy A’s right there. Sure your Orgo and Calc will be hard, but your electives will be interesting and easier (B+s and above, hopefully) and then you can take other courses for fun and graduation requirements that aren’t particularly difficult. </p>
<p>I think I may have an advantage for gen chem and orgo since I took both of those at harvard already (B+ in both). As for physics classes and upper math, well…</p>
<p>I think you only need to go up to Calculus II for med school, no multi is needed (From what I’ve heard, but I’m not premed). The best move is that you can take a class somewhere else and transfer it in, up to two classes. A lot of people will take their calculus classes somewhere else so they don’t ruin their GPA. </p>
<p>@spuding102: yes, I was BME class of 2010. I don’t think getting a 3.7+ is too difficult. It depends on what major you choose of course. But I feel that anyone who can get into Duke should not have a problem getting a 3.7+ if they are smart about choosing classes and have the motivation. I never said I was in Duke Med. I’m not. I am in an NIH-funded MD/PhD program however and did well with the admissions game. My thoughts about brilliant people in class is that obviously you are going to be in a bigger pond than high school. But there are still going to be people who fill out the bottom of the distribution just as there are people who fill out the top. Not everyone at Duke is the next Einstein. And to be honest, if you have doubts about Duke and the level of competition, then med school is going to be like a punch in the gut. Have some confidence in yourself, while what they say about all doctors being full of themselves is definitely not true, the self-doubters are definitely few and far between. </p>
<p>^While I like you SBR, I don’t think you can really say “I don’t think getting a 3.7+ is too difficult” considering the Latin Honors cutoff for cum laude (25th percentile) at Duke is around a 3.7. That is, a full 75% of Duke students (who, on average, are extremely hard-working & smart individuals with 2200+ SAT scores and 3.9+ GPAs in high school) do NOT achieve a 3.7 GPA. And that is overall - I’m sure pre-med courses skew way lower than that and students are helped in their cumulative averages by easier courses (thank you psych minor for helping my GPA!). </p>
<p>So, can people achieve it? Yes. But it’s not the “norm” based on just looking at the averages. And, if you major in something as difficult as BME, it certainly requires a certain bright and motivated individual - which I’m sure SBR is! I agree with having confidence in yourself, but it also is good to be realistic based on the numbers. I have no idea if it’s going to be difficult or not for spuding102 to achieve a certain GPA threshold at Duke … depends on spuding102.</p>
<p>^While I would agree with you in principle when looking at the raw facts, I think there are certain factors in play here that I believe skews in favor of spuding102, especially if he is serious about getting into med school and motivated to work toward that goal. Premeds are a self-selecting group that is more motivated in general, probably based on personality as well as increased goal-oriented behaviors. The result is that in any one year the Duke average (according to the health professions advising office data as of 2010) for med school applicants is a 3.5 cumulative GPA and those who succeed and matriculate to med school will have an average GPA is around 3.65+ with math/science GPA of around 3.6. Given that and given spuding2’s professed goal of becoming a doctor and his indicated success so far academically and his admission to a 7 year med program, I assume that he is at least as capable and as motivated as the average successful medical school applicant at Duke. Does this data indicate a causal relationship between being premed and doing well? No. But at least the correlation works in your favor. And given what I’ve seen so far, if all the other people can do it (and they are not all geniuses) then there’s absolutely no reason any motivated person doesn’t have an equal shot. Maybe “not too difficult” is an underestimate but I would say that just looking at the overall “norm” give a skewed perception of the reality as well. </p>
<p>I am an MD (from Duke). Just want to say that the mere fact that someone has never had a doubt about being a doctor since the “age of five” is no guarantee of an enduring interest in Medicine, since regardless of the interest in this field to date, that person still knows zero about the realities of Medicine. It is not really all about surviving or excelling in Med. School. The actual daily mechanics of being a doctor, and working in the increasingly complex and accountable culture of Medicine is nothing that a pre-college person can accurately anticipate. They cannot even begin to gauge the demands/rewards/stresses of daily medical practice. Best to maintain the interest at this stage, and hold in abeyance any ■■■■-sure opinions. Doctors are no longer unchallenged in their authority, and are increasingly accountable to intrusions from bureaucratic rules, politics, legal exigencies, and challenges from every tier of worker they interact with, as well as patients. This demands a maturity, commitment, forbearance, patience, and a service ethic which are not in the least predicted by a mere interest in being an MD, or doing well in courses! Besides, get ready to pay a fortune, and earn slave wages until you are 32 years old.</p>
<p>Honestly, I’m in the same position as you. Except that I’m trying to decide between Cornell and Sophie. I’m so torn between the two. But I suggest that you go to Duke because it gives you the options to explore things other than science, you’ll also get the full college experiences, and also don’t forget about all the connections you will make at Duke. So don’t worry about not becoming a doctor if you don’t go to Sophie. I feel the same way, but if it’s really meant to be it will happen. Good Luck!</p>