Duke vs. Berkeley

College Search & Selection
1

Hi there,

I am a high school senior (Asian American male) from the Bay Area in California looking for insights and perspectives on the tough decision of where I should attend this fall. I have gotten into many schools (UC Berkeley, UCLA, USC, Duke, Rice, Vanderbilt, etc.), but I have narrowed my choice down to Berkeley and Duke. At Berkeley, I got in for EECS, and at Duke, mechanical engineering, although it is likely that I will switch into ECE/CS (also thinking of minoring in business). I am not 100% sure I want to go down the CS path, but I think it is the most likely area I will pursue, and I have always pictured myself coming back to the Bay Area for graduate school (Berkeley or Stanford) and then to work for a top startup or tech company. However, I have not ruled out other paths like medical school or going into business.

For the last two weeks, I have come up with the pros and cons of both schools, and right now, I am leaning toward Duke, but I would greatly appreciate any additional insight. I will be visiting both schools next week. Also, money is not an issue and my parents will have no problems paying the tuition for either school. Here’s how I see both schools.

Duke pros:

  • Private school (more attention, access to professors who invest more into their undergraduates, easier to gain research opportunities, smaller classes, alumni connections, etc.)
  • Tight-knit community, very supportive, and lots of school spirit (I have played basketball all my life, so going to Duke basketball games is very appealing to me)
  • Research Triangle (not comparable to Silicon Valley, but there’s a fair share of startups and definitely an entrepreneurship culture)
  • Students overall more intellectual, student body more diverse
  • Very flexible education (can add majors/minors/certificates, mix and match easily), also a more comprehensive liberal arts curriculum

Duke cons:

  • Its engineering (CS/ECE) program is not very strong or well-known. Not many high achieving faculty. This is the biggest concern.
  • Unsure of prospects for graduate school/job placement in tech companies (similar to the point above)
  • Social hierarchy/clique nature of the student body
  • Far from home

Berkeley pros:

  • EECS is incredible, top 4 CS program in the nation.
  • Location is prime (Silicon Valley), next to many startups and tech companies
  • Tons of faculty, all of which are very accomplished and doing cutting-edge work
  • Heavy recruiting, getting into graduate school/job at a top company will be very attainable
  • Close to home (about an hour drive)

Berkeley cons:

  • Public school (little support or guidance, large class sizes, “you are on your own” kind of feeling, professors more focused on research than teaching (often graduate students or TAs will teach))
  • Very competitive (not sure about cutthroat though), and the EECS curriculum is very tough
  • Education not as flexible, will be heavily focused on engineering courses and less on liberal arts
  • Not very diverse, high percentage of Asians, and generally, the student population is not as intellectual
  • Surrounding area is sketchy
  • Community not very strong or supportive, little school spirit

Overall, Berkeley clearly has the stronger engineering program, and I am confident going to Berkeley would lead me down a pretty certain path for a successful future. However, I also feel like I would like to have a new life experience (Berkeley is super close to home and its student culture is extremely similar to that of my high school) and develop as a person. I definitely see myself enjoying life significantly more at Duke given its student life and community, and I don’t necessarily see its engineering program as a complete nightmare either (please correct me if I’m wrong). As a self-motivated and hard working person, I am confident that I will use Duke’s resources to the fullest and put myself in a good position for graduate school or a job in the Silicon Valley (again, though, I am not sure how much an engineering education at Duke would limit me). Duke also offers great flexibility, and as a top private institution, will give me alternatives if I decide later on that CS is not for me. On the other hand, if I go to Berkeley, it seems very likely that I will be studying pretty much all the time, and while I am not one to shy away from a challenge, I simply don’t think this may be worth it in the long run, as only having a great deal of technical knowledge won’t necessarily get you far in your career. I believe college (undergraduate) is a time to grow as a person, develop some new experiences and life skills, and gain a general education more than anything.

This post is getting quite long, so I think I will stop here. If anyone can give me any valuable advice on where I should attend this fall, that would be great. Thank you for the help!

2

If Duke is more expensive then go to UCB.
Your parents will thank you for saving them big $$ AND you will have more access to jobs in Calif when you graduate.
to me its a no brainer.

3

At Duke, you may have an easier time getting into interesting courses that aren’t in your major, which would lead to a well-rounded education. You’re absolutely right about the importance of a general education. I’m speaking as a strong supporter of a liberal arts education, though, and not everyone shares my view.

Cal is notably stronger in the field you want to study, so if you are certain CS is it for you, it may be better to go there. Even full pay parents love a bargain, and will thank you for saving them money!

4

Daughter graduating from Cal next month. full disclosure. To me, Cal is a no brainer.

5

How do finances play into this? Unless money is not a consideration or Duke gives you enough assistance to bring it to Berkeley’s level, this should certainly figure into your equation.

The other things you need to consider is how certain you want to pursue engineering/CS and how much you want the type of college experience that a school like Duke can provide. They are both great schools, but if you are looking for that quintessential college experience (school spirit, sports, Greek life) and want a strong liberal arts curriculum, Duke is probably a better choice.

6

You also have to live there and enjoy the people around you. Your education also includes the experiences and people you meet outside of the classroom and labs. Consider the climates of both schools into your equation as well. It’s more of a multi variate regression analaysis than 1 plus 1 equals 2. It’s not a slam dunk in my estimation.

7

My daughter was admitted to UC Berkeley and Duke. She chose Duke and is currently a freshman. She is definitely not an engineer type, more of a liberal arts student (although may consider Law or MBA down the road). It was an easy decision for her.

Duke doesn’t have a business undergraduate major/minor. So keep that in mind. They do have an MMS certificate (you can research that).

If you want to pursue CS and work in Silicon Valley, I’d say go to Berkeley without a doubt. As you know, Berkeley is known for its CS program. Duke’s engineering programs are quite rigorous though. It will be a challenging program. [Did you know the Duke’s Biomedical Engineering program is a top 4 program in the nation?] The Duke brand name will be good if you decide on medicine or business grad school. Duke pre-med students have a high success rate at getting into medical school (something like 90% of students).

My daughter loves Duke. She attended most basketball games this year. Did tenting for the UNC game. Great school spirit. She did get tired of taking the bus to/from East/West campus. She already has a dorm assignment for Sophomore year. Close to West Union. Most of her Fall, 2018 classes start at noon. She is a night owl, so she’s in heaven.

Duke has a lot of Asian students, but more diversity than Berkeley. There is a social hierarchy on campus - but this is over-blown and only becomes an issue if you let it bother you. My daughter joined a sorority but only attends certain events - mainly ones that don’t involve alcohol. She isn’t a party animal. She joined a few organizations that she really likes and plans to continue with them next school year.

Good luck with your decision!

8

Duke’s engineering department is small but the faculty is top class.

Posting some links that may be of interest:

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-best-colleges-for-software-developers-2014-10
https://trinity.duke.edu/initiatives/quantitative-initiative
https://news.crunchbase.com/news/venture-capitalists-go-college/

To put things in perspective, 56 VC investment partners did their undergrad at Berkeley while 32 went to Duke. Since Berkeley is roughly 5 times the size of Duke (and its student body is less academically diverse), Duke appears to be outperforming Berkeley handily on a per capita basis. This is just one metric but the point is that overall output should not be conflated with quality.

9

It looks like many of the things you’ve heard about Berkeley are simply, myths.

The EECS at Berkeley is NOT cutthroat. Far from it. EECS students are used to do team-working. It’s a highly collaborative environment where everyone is helping each other out.

The College of Engineering students rarely complain, if at all they do, about the lack of resources dedicated to undergrad students. It’s also not true advising is lacking. You’ll get plenty of it there.

And, Berkeley being less diverse than Duke? Really? That’s new to me. I’ve been to many top-ranked schools and I have yet to see a school with a more diverse student body than Berkeley’s.

I have no idea how Duke takes care of its students. But Berkeley COE environment is top-class.

This is another myth. Can you show us any data to support this? Only 8% get into the College of Engineering, less than 8% in the College of Chemistry. And, less than 6% get onto EECS. I would love to see any data that would show Duke’s student body is more intellectual than Berkeley College of Engineering student body.

10

<<- Students overall more intellectual>> ???

I don’t see how Duke is more intellectual, if anything I think its more a party school. The brightest and best kids are at Berkeley. My daughter (graduating senior) used to always say one of the best parts of being at Berkeley were the students because they challenge each other to raise their game. She says everyone deserves to be there because they are all brilliant.

11

Are you serious?

12

‘The student population is not as intellectual”
Based on what? Reddit?

13

Duke = “party school” is about as credible as Berkeley = “all Asian” Neither is.

14

USNews Duke 9 UCB 21
USA Today Duke 4 UCB 52
Forbes Duke 8 UCB 29
WSJ Duke 5 UCB 40
Best Coll. Duke 7 UCB not in top 25

Published rankings don’t indicate where a student will thrive they do however provide an indication of reputation, brand familiarity and popular perception all of which contribute to eventual career opportunities.

Duke in this regard clearly has an advantage.

15

But if you focus on engineering proram as OP seems to, Berkeley consistently ranks higher than Duke. For example, US News ranks Berkeley #3. So I don’t think you can use ranking to say one student body is more intellectual than the other.

16

I didn’t suggest either student body has an intellectual edge. I am saying that in the real world most people focus on the broader and household name rankings. In every one Duke has an indisputable and substantial edge.

I can observe that the disparity between a Duke and UCB engineering degree is much narrower then the broad difference by which Duke surpassses UCB in name recognition, brand respect etc based on the aforementioned rankings. Consequently, the 17/18 year old OP should be confident that the post college adult doesn’t want to pursue a career outside of engineering. Again both great schools but Duke clearly is a safer long term option in my opinion.

17

I apologize if the Berkeley “less intellectual” comment came off that way. I just meant to say that Berkeley’s acceptance rate is much higher and that there is a larger spectrum of applicants they admit.

18

The Duke “party school” reputation may come from 30% of men and 40% of women joining fraternities and sororities.

19

Is the “acceptance rate” you’re using for the whole university, or for CoE at UCB?

About 6 years ago, my D (now a CS PhD student at UCB) got accepted to Duke and to EECS Berkeley, she (and we her parents) didn’t think twice about choosing which school.

Are you more into EE or more into CS? If CS, take a look at what Simons Institute has to offer.

20

“I don’t see how Duke is more intellectual, if anything I think its more a party school. The brightest and best kids are at Berkeley. My daughter (graduating senior) used to always say one of the best parts of being at Berkeley were the students because they challenge each other to raise their game. She says everyone deserves to be there because they are all brilliant.”

You can’t compare a giant state school to an elite private university. The best students at Berkeley are on par with the best students anywhere but there is much more variability at the bottom of the class. This is the price state schools pay for ensuring access to a great education. Berkeley’s mission is very different from Duke’s mission.

Also, Duke has almost twice as many Rhodes scholars as Berkeley (despite being a fraction of the size). Not bad for a “party school”.

http://www.rhodesscholar.org/assets/uploads/2018%20RS_Number%20of%20Winners%20by%20Institution.pdf