Any feedback or comparisons socially, academically, outcomes, etc appreciated. My son has been committed to Duke but just came off Brown waitlist. Aspiring business/economics/entrepreneurial studies concentrations.
Visited both schools but only Duke as an accepted students.
Thanks
Does he want to become an entrepreneur?
Both schools are excellent for economics. Brown will be easier due to grade inflation, if that matters to him. The schools are very different in terms of how academics are run (curves, grading, open vs more restricted curriculum) and especially how social life is (Duke is a big sports school - Brown is not, Duke has a more “traditional” college vibe, etc.).
Good performance at either school puts him in good positions fr grad school or employment after undergrad.
Brown does not have a business school. There is some cool entrepreneurial stuff going on there. Especially with life sciences and tech. But it’s an offshoot to other stem studies. Thayer street at brown is a fun strip of shops and restaurants. Brown interfuses with RISD students and old world New England architecture. It’s a really a science meets hippy vibe. But there’s also Ivy League prep and sporty types as well. It’s quite a mix. There’s a nice quad and central campus but a lot of the school is woven into the surrounding area and sports gym pools a short walk from the rest. It’s a really cool place to go to school and is pretty intellectually focused for sure.
Duke on the other hand is the traditional campus experience. Big time sports. School traditions. Tenting for tickets to the unc hoop game etc And a more homogenous preppy but also smart and serous student body. From s business standpoint
It has evolved into perhaps the most prestigious and well connected school in the country. Outside of hpys
I don’t have much to add to the above, with the exception that
is no longer true, as places like Brightleaf Square and DPAC are within easy walking distance of East Campus. Durham has been revitalized and gentrified since the 1990s, as you probably know if you’ve visited Duke. (Almost too much so for some locals, as the skyrocketing rents and house prices in the area have been cause for concern.)
Don’t choose Brown expecting big grade inflation in economics or STEM courses. This seems to come up every time Brown is mentioned – but I don’t think the people who spread that misinformation have much recent experience with Brown themselves.
There’s no need for anyone to speculate either way, as Brown publishes its grade distributions. The 2016-17 data is below.
The total percentage of C’s and NC’s awarded in the humanities, social sciences, and sciences ranges from 3% (humanities) to 9% (physical sciences) – low percentages however one parses the data.
Humanities
A: 49% (slightly down from 51% in 2007-08)
S: 38% (up from 30% in 2007-08)
B: 10% (down from 16% in 2007-08)
NC: 2% (same as 2007-08)
C: 1% (same as 2007-08)
Social Sciences
A: 60% (up from 52% in 2007-08)
S: 19% (down from 26% in 2007-08)
B: 17% (slightly up from 15% in 2007-08)
C: 2% (down from 5% in 2007-08)
NC: 2% (same as 2007-08)
Life Sciences
A: 62% (up from 54% in 2007-08)
B: 21% (slightly down from 25% in 2007-08)
S: 12% (same as 2007-08)
C: 4% (slightly down from 6% in 2007-08)
NC: 2% (same as 2007-08)
Physical Sciences
A: 52% (slightly up from 49% in 2007-08)
B: 22% (slightly down from 26% in 2007-08)
S: 16% (slightly up from 14% in 2007-08)
C: 5% (slightly down from 7% in 2007-08)
NC: 4% (slightly down from 5% in 2007-08)
OP, congrats to your son! I’m not sure why, but I get the sense that Brown is the “it” school on CC (apart from Stanford, of course). You must be very proud. Be sure to let us know where he lands!
One thing to consider is that Duke has significantly more money to throw at new entrepreneurial initiatives. In terms of resources, Duke has a definite advantage.
Thanks all for the great insights. USCwolverine I am indeed very proud about who he is as a person!
I suspect we will go visit Brown again for a walk around. Perhaps I was to harsh but whenever we would visit a school I would temper expectations of acceptance so not sure how “clear” my son’s perspective was. He truly loved Duke so I suspect that is wear he decides but worth the ride to make sure he doesn’t look back.
Thanks again.
Brown has a unique feel and in terms of business/finance slightly better than Duke if he is looking to end up in NYC/Boston area
Academically, it’s a wash. The vibes, however, are really different. Lots of Greek life and sports-centered activities at Duke. I would be surprised if a student truly did not have a (strong) preference for one over the other - really different places.
I always suggest that students look at the course catalog and any general and departmental requirements and figure out, based on current interests, what 4 years would look like. There can be significant differences between otherwise similar schools which may or may not matter.
I am not spreading misinformation - it is undeniable that Brown has heavy grade inflation. It seems that across almost every academic stratification, around half or more of the students get an A and less than 10% get a C or lower. That is grade inflation no matter how you look at it.
Look @warblersrule 's post and Brown’s own published grading policies.
@ccfk1221 Do you have any data to back up the assertion that Brown has a slight edge over Duke for finance? The converse is almost certainly true.
https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/2015/02/04/the-top-feeder-schools-to-wall-street/2/
Wall Street Oasis’ list of undergraduate feeder schools has Duke at 29th globally (between Yale and Stanford). Brown doesn’t make the top 50.
https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/2014/10/10/linkedins-terrible-horrible-no-good-very-bad-rankings/4/
Linkedin has Duke 7th for finance. Brown is 17th.
etc. etc.
^ Registration is required
PS: If you think I’m cherry picking, it would be great if you could produce a single ranking that has Brown over Duke for finance (in terms of employment prospects).
There is a degree of GPA inflation at Brown, for the reasons described by @lkjhgfdsa77756 above. Students can take almost unlimited classes as satisfactory/no credit . The deadline to drop a class is at the last day of classes. Also with no distribution requirements, students are largely taking classes they are excited to be in, rather than to fulfill requirements.
Brown only gives grades of A, B and C with no A- or B+, etc. so if a student doesn’t get a 4.0 in the class, the next possible grade is a 3.0. So some students who are not getting As and in some cases, even Bs, will drop a class at the end of the semester rather than taking a grade that will substantially lower their GPA. Brown also does not give Ds and Fs. Any grade lower than a C and it’s as if the class never existed on your transcript.
The A-B-C grade system also sometimes result in the cutoff for an A being a little more generous than at a school where the next lowest grade is a 3.7 rather than a 3.0. but, there is a degree of grade deflation as well when the student with a 3.6-3.7 average in the class gets a B/3.0 as a final grade.
GPA inflation is not the same thing as grade inflation in individual classes. The quality and quantity of work that is required to get an A in a class at Brown is not at some lower level than its peer schools. Like many peer schools, most classes at Brown don’t have a bell curve distribution for assigning grades, so if 60% of the students do A level work then 60% of the students will get As. But students shouldn’t choose Brown thinking it’s going to be a lot easier to get an A than somewhere else.
@cievro: Agree with everything in your post #16 in this thread except your last sentence.
All those reasons (the super lenient drop deadline, amount of pass/fail coursework allowed, no grade lower than a C showing up on your transcript, high percentage of As for classes, etc.) are exactly why I said that grade inflation exists at Brown. GPA inflation IS grade inflation (in fact, studies of grade inflation often use GPA distributions to measure grade inflation, or percentage of As - both of which is high at Brown).
Brown and Duke have the same quality of student - yet Duke students have a harder time getting As and higher GPAs.
The OP ought to be aware of this to make an educated decision. In some situations, such as Law School admissions, where GPA heavily influences admissions and the school attended is not sufficiently used to put GPAs in context, a school like Brown might be a strategic choice.
I am not sure how this became a conversation about GPA as that has little bearing on the life of an entrepreneur. That said my student at Brown received funding for their business idea through some entrepreneurship program and there has been a lot start-up stuff on campus. Advising and summer program placement has also been above and beyond what we knew about before hand. Housing is not great though, so if really nice dorms is a deal breaker…
I agree with you @yikesyikesyikes that it is easier to manipulate GPA at Brown than other places, and that GPA is the metric used In discussions of “grade inflation”. What I don’t agree with is that it is easier to get high grades In individual classes at Brown than other peer schools, and that the caliber and quantity of work that it takes to get an A at Brown is substantially different from other schools.
I am not sure what you mean that “GPA has little bearing on the life of an entrepreneur”. There is no singular career path for an entrepreneur - it looks different for everyone. GPA could be very important, not important at all, or somewhere in between.