Duke vs. Dartmouth vs. Cornell for pre-med?

<p>I know there are hundreds upon hundreds of similar discussions and rankings etc. (I've spent weeks searching), but there are very specific things I am looking for and nobody seems to really answer those questions. </p>

<p>This is what I would like to know about (in order of importance) (and thank you in advance!):</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Strength of biology program (by rankings, it seems that Duke and Cornell are similarly strong, but Dartmouth seems to offer much more support and guidance to premed students than either of the other two... strength of their medical schools is less important to me since I plan on trying someplace else for grad, and undergraduates typically don't benefit quite as much as you would think from the university's graduate schools)</p></li>
<li><p>Research opportunity (all three claim to have a strong support of undergraduate research, but is the reality of the situation the same as they make it out to be?)</p></li>
<li><p>Strength of curriculum (I know that Cornell is by far the hardest to make an A in, but is this because of bad professors or in fact because they have a strong curriculum? My main background for the MCAT (ugh more standardized testing...) is going to be from my undergraduate bio classes so I need for them to be both good and well taught... Cornell shows up on CBS's best college professors list while the other two don't but they used student ratings which can be total bull sometimes)</p></li>
<li><p>Social life (NOT looking for sororities or fraternities, rather the opposite... I know Dartmouth has a big frat scene, which really pushes me away, while Cornell and Duke's are simiilar... I've already heard about the suicide rates at Cornell.... yeah, idk.... I guess it depends on the person? Any past Cornell students have any opinions?)</p></li>
<li><p>Perception (This is the lowest on the list, but I'd still like to know more... I know Cornell is Ivy League and I also know that it is really not that elite at all, considered more to be a state school (or a cow school, say some) and I know that people there are really proud of their "Ivy League" education, but if there is this perception of Cornell being a good, hard school then it may be easier for me to apply to other ivies for grad school which would not be true in the case of Duke (dartmouth on the other hand is pretty solidly ivy, yes?) I realize that though perceptions may be untrue, they still do influence people, especially when all the applicants look the same on paper)</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Thanks!!</p>

<p>Also, why I don't care about the factors I didn't mention:</p>

<p>I'm from a medium-sized college town in Mississippi, and I've taken plenty of classes at the local university (>16,000 undergrads) so the size difference of Cornell does not really bother me at all whereas a small school would be just fine too. Also, being from mississippi, I love snow and have wanted to ice skate my entire life, so the average climate of duke and the snowy one of cornell and dartmouth are equally appealing to me... and I'm really trying to go to an undergrad as a booster seat to help me get into a better grad school...</p>

<p><em>I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL HELP FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART!</em>
THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH!</p>

<p>Also, I forgot to mention (but can’t edit in because I apparently don’t have permission? I started this thread, if I don’t have permission, then who does??), this is not all just speculation. I have been accepted to all three with equalish financial aid, and I’m trying to sit down to decide. Also, I am completely undecided, so I could lean one way on one day and another on the next, but without any reason for doing so. And I realize I should go visit each and see “what feels right,” but that kind of travel is a bit out of my financial and situational reach so I really don’t think I’ll be able to… so if anyone who has been cares to add their perspective, please do so!</p>

<p>Penguin, you really must be on a lot of financial aid or lack the support of your parents if you cannot visit. </p>

<p>First, I would get rid of the word “equalish” and do a spreadsheet of the three schools’ offers. Each source of income, and how much total cash and loans you and your parents would owe to each. Also doublecheck that the costs are parallel (ie that the schools all set aside the enough for books, airfare and R&B; I doubt that will be a problem with schools of this caliber, but do check it out for yourself. Does one have work study while the others don’t? Once you’ve finished this analysis then you AND your parents or another trusted adult can see the true costs. Remember that over 4 years a $3,000 difference= $12,000 more in loans. You are planning med school, which has lots of loans, so I would use this factor in my decision.</p>

<p>Your “perception” comments come across as pretty superficial. You need to do way more reading. Do you have the Fiske Guide to Colleges? Can you get on an admitted students pages’ for each of the three schools? Do any of the schools have an alumni welcome lunch etc planned for somewhere in Mississippi? Call the admissions office tomorrow and ask about an admitted students’ page or if they can have some current students call you. Also, if you are truly high financial aid, ask if they can help in any way with a plane ticket.</p>

<p>Good luck…</p>

<p>Financial aid difference really won’t be the deciding factor between the colleges. I am making every effort to visit, but I’m not sure I will be able to for situational reasons. I am talking to the alumni, but each makes their own college seem wonderful and exemplary in every way, and the welcome lunch is only for students who decide to go to that school. I do not have the Fiske Guide to Colleges, and I agree that my perceptions comment is rather archaic but Cornell sure does love to throw its Ivy League status around so I’m just curious what other people have to say about it; if it turns out people feel really strongly one way or the other, then I might take it into consideration, but for right now, I am, as I said, just curious, not making my college decision over it.</p>

<p>Overall, you’re going to have MD candidates coming out of all 3 schools and the competition is going to be similar. You are talking about probably the most common post-undergrad goal, so research opportunities and the competition for them will also be similar. It’ll come down to how well you perform in school, on the MCAT, and how much you hustle on research/extracurrics. I know plenty of Duke grads who got into top 20 med schools, but that doesn’t mean it’s easier than the other two. I don’t think anyone tracks the metric you are seeking (the easiest undergrad to get into the best med school).</p>

<p>From my bias, Duke and Dartmouth are probably the top 2 you should be considering (if money isn’t different). The versatility of those schools beyond pre-med stuff will help more than Cornell’s. Unless you want to do hotel management…</p>

<p>Lol… hotel management… </p>

<p>That has actually been one of my concerns about cornell too, especially since I found this mini rant by a Cornell professor, Milton Konvitz:
“The aim of liberal education is to turn relatively undifferentiated boys and girls into mature, intelligent, thinking, passionate, and compassionate persons: into men and women with convictions and the courage of their convictions, and possessed with the central conviction that until their dying day they must continue on an endless, fretful, feverish quest after thoughts, and more thoughts, and still more thoughts. Too often we permit our students to think that they have come only to equip themselves with skills and ‘knowhow’ to become America’s butchers, bakers, and candle-stick makers. Thousands of our students acquire skills and techniques to qualify them well-enough for the vocations and a professions; but what of the greatest vocation of man–to be a Man?”</p>

<p>It does seem that Duke and Dartmouth would give me the greatest opportunity to also learn other stuff that I’m interested in (esp. psychology, mathematics, and Spanish)… thanks for your opinion Johnny H!</p>

<p>Don’t judge the schools on some professors - every place is going to have crazies.</p>

<p>Also, Cornell is certainly a good school and notable for certain things (engineering, comp sci, hotel mgmt)…but it looks like you have some better options. Also, remember that you don’t need a “bio” undergrad to apply to med school, you just need to take the bio/chem/phys classes needed for the MCAT.</p>

<p>A biology degree might limit you to just applying to med school or being a research associate in a lab (bad!).</p>

<p>Consider diversifying your options by majoring in something else. Not that I’m suggesting this for you, but my friends who studied BME had many opportunities outside of engineering and medicine, example. You could do the same with psych/math.</p>

<p>This guy studied econ and an easier “bio anthropology” major at Duke: <a href=“http://www.nea.com/team/justin-klein-md-jd”>http://www.nea.com/team/justin-klein-md-jd&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I have a friend who’s an active Cornell alumna and she loved the social scene, but she was pretty heavily involved in the Greek scene there (she was the president of Panhel). So…probably not what you’re looking for. If you don’t want to be in the Greek scene, Cornell might be the safet out of the three - I get the sense that Duke and Dartmouth’s social scenes are mostly driven by Greek life (40% of Dartmouth students are in Greek orgs, and it’s something like 30-40% of Duke students), while at Cornell it seems to play a role but not dominate the scenes (more like 25%).</p>

<p>Cornell is not a state school. Cornell is not even considered to be a state school. It has some public affiliations, but most people aren’t even aware of that. Most people I know are pretty equally impressed by Duke, Dartmouth, and Cornell (perhaps Dartmouth has a slight edge). And perceptions don’t influence graduate school admissions or employers experienced in hiring the same way they influence lay folks on the ground.</p>

<p>Research opportunities are really going to depend on the department and professor. Strength of the biology programs is likely to be very similar at the undergraduate level. You won’t have a problem grasping the MCAT’s core knowledge from any of those schools. Choice, at this point, should be based on other factors, as the schools are equally academically strong.</p>

<p>My Cornell alumna friend is also neither in medicine nor hospitality management. Look at the link below; Cornell students’ post-college employment is actually quite similar to their elite peers, in that large chunks of students go into finance, consulting, and technology, and smaller chunks are scattered across other fields. If you are going to the College of Arts and Sciences, I’m not sure why there’d be the perception that you’d have less of an opportunity to learn about other fields; Cornell has just as many majors as the other places, if not more.</p>

<p><a href=“Redirect Notice”>Redirect Notice;

<p>I’m not saying that you should go to Cornell (personally, I’d choose Duke) but some folks seem to have some strange ideas about Cornell.</p>

<p>“Any past Cornell students have any opinions?”</p>

<p>I do. </p>

<p>Wth the views you’ve expressed here, with all the things you “know” (most of which I, for one don’t know), my opinion is you should eliminate Cornell.</p>

<p>When I was admitted to Cornell I was thrilled about it. It’s not healthy for people attending to have their environment and accomplishments poisoned by people walking among them who “know” all such things you “know”.Maybe you’ll just be transferring out the first time things get tough.</p>

<p>Go someplace you are proud to be attending.That’s my opinion.</p>

<p>For others who may care, the greek system provides one channel of social outlets there for those so inclined. But most people aren’t part of that. Many upperclassmen live in Collegetown adjacent to campus, and that is a key area for socializing. Like in “real life”, the vibrancy of one’s social life depends mostly on you. FWIW I have at least three sets of friends who married people they met there. None of them took part in the greek system.</p>

<p>The suicides are highly publicized because people generally have jumped from public bridges overlooking the gorges. and there was a cluster of such events a few years ago. But the actual suicide rate there is not above average for college students generally. However, if you personally are prone to depression,to the point that you are seriously monitoring comparative suicide rates, you might be better off seeking a less stressful environment. That goes for these other schools too.</p>