Duke vs JHU vs Wash U vs Rutgers for premed?

<p>So I have been accepted to all these universities and am having a tough time deciding. </p>

<p>Which will proived me the most opportunities (research, premed ECs, possible experience at med center, etc.) and the best education (both overall to prepare me for med school and specifically to prepare me to do well on the MCATs)? Overall, where do the most successful premeds come from, out of these schools? Some stats would be nice. I believe Duke has approixamtely 85% succesful applicants to med school (though I don't know if that is for a students top choice, or just getting into a med school). </p>

<p>I feel like I can be happy at any of these schools, I am mainly wondering from where I can be the most successful as I apply to med school 4 years from now. I am aiming to go to a top 5 med school. Maybe stats of med school acceptances would be helpful-like what portion of students at top med schools come from (schools). </p>

<p>Also, I am considering majoring in either a traditional science like bio or chem, or something diff like neuroscience.</p>

<p>In terms of finances, Rutgers is (perhaps obviously) the best for me. Then Wash U is giving me some money. Neither JHU, nor Duke are offering anything. </p>

<p>This is a really big decision, and I only have a few days left! Any advice would be helpful. Thanks!!</p>

<p>PS: I've also been waitlisted at Caltech and Yale-any advice on whether I should really pursue these schools and try to get in (sending in add info, etc)-are they significantly better for premeds?</p>

<p>You said Rutgers is the cheapest- but are the other three doable?</p>

<p>yea, i don’t think finances will be an issue for my family.</p>

<p>Wash U offers many resources for premed students. In addition to the great curriculum,we have wonderful premed advisors, the MedPrep program (I suggest you check this out:[The</a> MedPrep Program | Preparing you for a life in medicine](<a href=“http://pages.wustl.edu/medprep]The”>http://pages.wustl.edu/medprep)), numerous opportunities to do research at Washington University School of Medicine, and a laid-back academic environment. Also, if you decide medicine isn’t for you, it is really easy to switch your course of study because Wash U is very flexible academically. I am sure some of your other choices also have great opportunities, but I really think the atmosphere at Wash U is something special :)</p>

<p>One vote for JHU.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>The most successful premeds are the ones with the best GPAs, MCAT scores, and interviewing skills. Students who get into even the most selective med schools come from scores of colleges.</p>

<p>“Premed” pretty much comes down to the following set of courses:</p>

<ul>
<li>Biology (2 semesters of lecture and lab)</li>
<li>General Chemistry (2 semesters of lecture and lab)</li>
<li>Organic Chemistry (2 semesters of lecture and lab)</li>
<li>Physics (2 semesters of lecture and lab)</li>
<li>English/Writing (2 semesters)</li>
<li>Mathematics (2 semesters)</li>
<li>Biochemistry (1 semester)</li>
</ul>

<p>At the schools you’re considering, many of these classes will be large lectures (possibly with hundreds of students). The lab sections likely will be taught by very junior faculty members or even graduate students. I doubt that any of these 4 colleges consistently delivers a significantly better experience than the others across all the above courses. It’ll come down to what sections you choose and how much effort you put into them.</p>

<p>So, you might want to focus more on your prospective major(s) and overall “fit”.</p>

<p>thanks for all the advice. i am surprised no one mentioned duke! any blue devils out there? honestly, in terms of environment, i went to duke for blue devil days and sat in on a class, etc. - i got the sense that it’s a pretty lax atmosphere. I have heard that JHU is the most “grinding” or cuthroat-esp for premeds? Any thoughts?</p>

<p>My son is enrolling at WUSTL- phenomenal academics, campus life, and advising (especially for premed, which he is interested in). He’s not a big sports buff, so lack of strong athletics was not a concern. </p>

<p>I don’t think that there are really any real differences in academics between Duke, JHU, and WUSTL unless you are looking at a particular major that is stronger at one school. I don’t know much about Rutgers, but I suspect it is not nearly as strong as the other three.
I think the issue of JHU being cut throat is more of a myth than reality. My son got into JHU and visited but did not get that impression.</p>

<p>also, tk21769 - I’m not sure I understand your response to my qustion… are you saying that JHU, Duke and Wash U are not good for premed? Am I understanding that correctly?</p>

<p>PsychoDad10, did your son consider Duke at all? And wat specifically made your son choose Wash U over JHU? Was it more that he really liked Wash U, or was there somehting lacking at JHU? Many have told me that there is no better place for undergrad resarch than JHU… agree/disagree?</p>

<p>

Kashmoney, Duke is a great university, and its students typically do well in med school admissions, but one could say the same of JHU or WUStL. tk21769 and PsychoDad10 are correct – Duke, JHU, and WUStL are universities of similar academic heft, and you won’t receive an advantage in med school admissions by choosing one over the other. Realistically, most “pre-med” high schoolers switch into other fields before college graduation anyway. (At Duke, the number of pre-meds shrank from 46% of the freshman class to ~25% of the senior class.)</p>

<p>If you want helpful input, you should be more specific about what you’re looking for. Some sample differences:
[ul][<em>]Location - Baltimore and St. Louis are large cities; Durham is a medium-sized town.
[</em>]Athletics - Duke is DI, WUStL is DIII, and JHU is DIII except lacrosse.
[<em>]Campuses - Duke has a large, sprawling campus of ~1000 acres. WUStL and Hopkins have smaller, more compact campuses of ~140-170 acres.
[</em>]Housing - 80% live on campus at Duke and WUStL; 50% at JHU do. Duke keeps freshmen on a separate campus.
[li]Distribution requirements - JHU requires only that science majors take 6 humanities/social science courses and humanities/social science majors take 4 science/math courses. WUStL and especially Duke have more rigid distribution requirements.[/ul]</p>[/li]
<p>Med school isn’t cheap, and you should keep your costs down in undergrad. Make sure you can comfortably afford the three private universities without incurring debt.</p>

1 Like

<p>thanks for the great advcie. Are the research opporutnities and expereince opportunities for undergrads at professional facilities (duke med center, jhu med school, wash U med school, etc.) the same across these schools? Also, do many students actually go from rutgers, to great med schools, for instacne say harvard med?</p>

<p>How big is the price difference? Remember that medical school is expensive, so applying the money to medical school can allow you to finish medical school with substantially less debt…</p>

<p>well rutgers is basically free for me, while washu is about 50 k per year and the others 60k per year. Again though, I still want to consider the situation if I do decide on rutgers: do many students actually go from rutgers, to great med schools, for instacne say harvard med?</p>

<p>Ask yourself this- where do you see yourself in 20 yrs? Do you want to be a distinguished leader in academia, or do you want to be a practicing community physician? Now I know that it is very difficult for a high school student to know what he/she wants, but the reason I bring thus is up is rather simple. You do not have to go to a prestigious undergrad institution to get into med school. Now things may be a bit different if you want to get into a med school like WUSTL, JHU, or Harvard and pursue an academic caree. I can not prove it, but as a physician, I’m not oblivious to the fact that in medicine, there is a phenomenon of academic inbreeding- students at highly selective med schools get residency positions at higher ranked programs (if there is any doubt, compare where students from WUSTL match compared to its crosstown competitor SLU- by the way I think that SLU is a quality institution, but it is definitely in WUSTL’s shadow if you look at highly competitive residency matches).</p>

<p>I went to UIUC for undergrad, UIC for med school and did all my training in Houston. I’m a Cardiologist, and I think I did pretty well- not one penny of debt either. </p>

<p>I believe the future of medicine is bleak- certainly no way I’d justify paying $200K extra for UG education, unless there was a real compelling reason.</p>

<p>Honestly, I’m not completely sure what I want to do…for now, all I can say is that neuroscience is highly attractive to me! Perhaps that will lead to research in the field, or lead me to becoming a neurosurgeon…I have no idea. I really do want to go to a top medical school for the reasons you have mentioned. But it seems like everyone is saying that it really just comes down to numbers/interviews and not so much where I go to school?</p>

<p>so i mean should I really be considering rutgers if I’m looking to go to a top med school? I have heard stories of the kid who went to rutgers for undergrad and ended up at harvard med school…however, is there any truth to these stories? (It’s also really hard to find stats for this kind of stuff-does anyone have things to share?)</p>

<p>If you have a stellar GPA and stellar MCAT scores for a top med school (above 36 ), then I think you stand a much better chance of a top med school. You will still need strong LOR and experience in healthcare either shadowing a physician or possibly research .</p>

<p>Any other opinions?</p>

<p>Here’s a very informative post from Duke alum bluedevilmike about what makes Duke such a great place to be premed:</p>

<p>"Hi,</p>

<p>I can without reservation (but also without proof, heh) state that for the majority of premed students, Duke is hands down the best place to be.</p>

<p>First the statistics, then the reasons.</p>

<p>85% of our premeds get into a medical school; this compares to a national number of around 50%, sometimes lower. (Yes, that does mean that half of all students who apply to medical school will be admitted nowhere whatsoever.) Most comparable schools boast rates that are noticeably lower than that. I can’t guarantee this, but I believe people on these boards have been mentioning that Stanford’s percentage is about 75%. Of course, Stanford also has to deal with the UC system, so the comparison isn’t exact, but I frankly can’t imagine anybody preparing us for the process better than Dean Kay Singer and her office.</p>

<p>Second, if you look, you’ll notice that the average GPA among our accepted premeds at a given medical school is lower than the national GPA among accepted premeds, and lower than the GPA at some “peer” institutions. This tells you that students from Duke who have WORSE grades are getting into the SAME medical schools as others. Why?</p>

<p>A few reasons.</p>

<p>1.) We have access to a world-class medical center. It’s close and we’re actually allowed - and helped! - to do stuff in it. Some schools like Columbia don’t have their hospitals nearby, so it’s difficult for students to volunteer or do reseach there. Not only is it literally like two minutes from the dorms to the hospital (walking), but Duke has programs explicitly set up (HCIP) to get undergraduates volunteering in the hospital.</p>

<p>2.) Astonishingly wonderful advising systems. We have famous premedical advisors. I’ve ranted about this a little bit on a thread relating to UCB in the Premed topics forum (Berkeley is a good place to pursue pre-med?) but the bottom line is that advising is both key and really wonderful here. They’ve earned their reputation as being among the best in the country.</p>

<p>This is reflected in their numbers.</p>

<p>3.) World-class faculty in small classes. Duke’s philosophy in hiring faculty is that we want absolutely brilliant faculty on the cutting edge of their fields, and we will put up with almost anything to get them. The one thing we will not put up with, however, is an unwillingness to make teaching their absolute top priority. That means that the faculty we have here love students and will go far out of their way to make sure we learn. This means partly that we learn better, which helps us once we actually get into med school, but it also means that we get better letters of recommendation, which are huge.</p>

<p>This to me is the most important point: Yes, there are schools with similarly or perhaps even more qualified faculty as leaders in their fields. But at what other school do undergraduates have real, worthwhile access to those leaders on a routine basis? Where else will a health economist who is cited repeatedly in every textbook hold multiple review sessions, some of them on Sunday evenings, just to make sure we really learn the stuff? Where else will a world famous chemist respond to freshmen questions via e-mail during his Thanksgiving day? Some schools have wonderful faculty who will do this - but I don’t think any of them will top us in the access we have to brilliance.</p>

<p>4.) An encouragement to pursue co-curricular activites. And yes, I did just call them co-curriculars rather than extra-curriculars. Duke understands that we’re training young men and women here, not just scholars, and so I’ve never heard of a student here who had anything short of astonishing extracurriculars. I’m a tour guide, and I make it a habit when I’m on my tours to mention the accomplishments of the various students I run into - I can afford to do this because Duke students are simply astonishing. Friends of mine have discovered new chemical structures, signed up for internships with the bioterrorism department of the government - it seems everybody has something incredible that they view as normal because that’s what Duke students do.</p>

<p>We have a department entirely for the purpose of helping students arrange interesting, educational, or service-oriented (but usually all three) summer projects.</p>

<p>This is crucial - medical schools need good qualifications, yes, but they are also looking for people who will make good doctors. People who have shown themselves to be committed to helping others, who can dive into the intellectualism known as research, and who have proven that their interest in health is more than just “hypothetical” are standout candidates.</p>

<p>5.) Warmth. Premeds here - knowing that we will all do well in the process - learn together. You won’t hear of us stealing each other’s notes or sabotaging projects. We study together. We encourage each other. Frankly speaking, we take care of each other. Duke students are warm, and we will support each other through rough times along the premedical track. Is this a stereotype? Absolutely. Has it proven true for me? Also absolutely.</p>

<p>6.) Location in the research triangle. This is one of the more minor points, but our location amongst the high-powered pharmaceutical companies does make it easier to attract biotechnology-oriented professors, faculty, companies, internships, etc. Duke Medical Center attracts a lot of exciting research for this purpose, and that may impact the premedical experience somewhat.</p>

<p>That doesn’t even begin to talk about reputation, courses that prepare you for the MCAT, a pre-professional slant at Duke (which is good for pre-professional students like pre-meds), really world class science buildings like the French Science Building and CIEMAS, a commitment to genomics and science as a future, the interdisciplinary focus of most of our science programs, including medical humanities classes and the excellence of our biomedical engineering… I could go on and on but it’s late and I’m getting sleepy.</p>

<p>Let me know if you have any questions - I should be pretty good about checking my private messages in the near future.</p>

<p>-Mike"</p>